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  1. #61

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    Lightbulb Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright


    I thought that vampires having no reflection was an invention of Bram Stoker's novel, just to add creepiness.


    But back to the topic, In that bottom construction picture, it is evident that they planned on having the walk through outside of the berm, but was the warehouse building started at the same time as the facade?
    Those construction pics nullify that idea that it was ever going to be actually inside of the mansion, was'nt there another pic of the house with an elevator frame already built by the time the mansion was being sheathed?

    I know this sounds like beating a dead horse, but are'nt there sites saying that the attraction being outside of the house was a last minute deal?

  2. #62

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Oh, this is good. Not a superpost or anything, but...good.

    Thread 7 won't have to wait very long before getting properly christened as an authentic, no fudging, "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect" type of thread. I'm talking HM artwork here, HM hyper-trivia, and revelations of surprising, never-before-noticed details. Who loves ya, baby?

    The "Story and Song" album has become a centerpiece for HM collectors and enthusiasts, despite the fact that it is essentially (let us just say it, friends) a pretty silly record. It was intended to be a souvenir aimed at pre-teens and young teens. And that's what it is.



    I'm a very bad boy. I've always assumed that Karen must have had huge...personality, because Mike sure can't be dating her for her brains. Of course, Opie—excuse me, I mean Mike—will never be suspected of being Albert Einstein's love child, either.

    Let's leave the kids aside for now. The real attractions of the album for hardcore HM fans lie elsewhere. Of course there's plain old nostalgia. But more than this, in the narration you are getting, essentially, an early X Atencio script for the HM, so you can compare it to what is actually there in the ride and instantly see a great deal of what changed and what did not during the course of 1969. Even better, the graveyard sequence contains an early mix of the actual ride soundtrack, and it includes elements that were subsequently dropped or were never used at all, like the whooshing wind rising and falling to the music, the "dum-dum" singer, and the choreographed pop-ups shrieking at the end of each verse rather than randomly (or not at all). But the most obvious attraction of "Story and Song" is the lush, painterly artwork of Collin Campbell, closely based on Marc Davis's concept art but reflecting also what actually went into the ride.

    It was really cheap, so I just bought a copy (via Amazon) of the 40th Anny remastered "Story and Song" on CD, which reproduces all of the artwork of the original 11-page booklet in two ways. They reprint the booklet for you, and they have a file attached to the CD which enables you to call up the artwork on your computer and print it out if you like.

    When I first got my record in 1969, I did what any geeky 14-year old would have done: I pored over every square millimeter of Campbell's artwork like it was the Dead Sea freakin' Scrolls, squeeeezing it for every drop of HM joy it could give. I think it's safe to say that there isn't anything in the original booklet that I haven't noticed.

    Whenever "the original artwork" of anything is reproduced and reissued, I hope for a more generous cropping, and often I am not disappointed. That is, I hope that they crop the artwork a little wider out, so that details previously lost at the edges become visible for the first time. (What? You too?)

    What is interesting about the two reproductions of the Campbell artwork in the CD package is that each of them does indeed offer a more generous cropping—but in opposite directions. The little booklet is just like the big, album version, except that it goes wider, revealing items previously chopped off on the far right and the far left. Meanwhile, the e-file version goes taller, revealing stuff on top and bottom that neither of the hard copies do.

    Usually, you get stuff like, "Oh, I can see the rung on that chair now," and other, less exciting additions. But if you're lucky, some real gems pop into view. Let's take a look at the first page, featuring the Executioner opening the door for you to enter. In the original booklet you can't see much of the upper door lintel, and the new mini-version is even worse:


    ORIGINAL


    CD MINI-BOOKLET

    But look what the e-file version does (besides unnecessarily straightening out the tilt):


    E-FILE VERSION

    Pretty cool. Meanwhile, both of the new versions let you see the whole gangly spook on the far left for the first time. That's kinda neat, too, but we still haven't discussed the big one.

    In the original ballroom illustration, on the far right, you could see the bottom of a nondescript painting of some kind, hanging on the wall:


    ORIGINAL

    Blow it up for detail? Go ahead, knock yourself out. There really isn't anything to see.


    The e-file version gives you more to the north and south, but in this case also to the east and west, so you can see more of the painting, but you still don't get anything that looks like anything.




    No, it's the new booklet that delivers the goods:



    See it? It's a duelist portrait! It's been hiding off the edge of the stage for 40 years, unseen and unknown. Campbell made the figure long and thin, presumably in imitation of the look you would get seeing the painting from a side angle. One of the neat things about painting something with built-on perspective is that you can undo the perspective the artist put in without seriously distorting the results. So I decided to "recover" the "lost" duelist portrait that really only existed in Campbell's imagination, by adjusting the perspective slightly, plus giving it a few other minor tweaks to sharpen it up a tad. Just for fun.

    If you're a big fan of the duelists, recovering a Collin Campbell duelist from 1969 has to put a grin on ya.



    I don't know if there's any significance to the fact that the duelist is over on the right side of the ballroom. It's fun to speculate that perhaps they once toyed with the idea of having a duelist at each end of the room, firing at each other across the party scene, but eventually abandoned the idea. Frankly, I think that's unlikely, but with this painting before us, the possibility cannot be altogether ruled out.
    Last edited by HBG2; 05-06-2010 at 07:45 PM. Reason: fix error in photo description
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  3. #63

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Fenwright View Post

    I thought that vampires having no reflection was an invention of Bram Stoker's novel, just to add creepiness.
    Even if that's so (and I don't know), it has still become a well-known motif tying together mirrors and the supernatural.

    But back to the topic, In that bottom construction picture, it is evident that they planned on having the walk through outside of the berm, but was the warehouse building started at the same time as the facade?
    Those construction pics nullify that idea that it was ever going to be actually inside of the mansion, was'nt there another pic of the house with an elevator frame already built by the time the mansion was being sheathed?

    I know this sounds like beating a dead horse, but are'nt there sites saying that the attraction being outside of the house was a last minute deal?
    The HM was ALWAYS planned as going outside the berm. In fact, it was the first DL ride to be planned that way (POTC was originally supposed to stay inside the tracks.) They never contemplated cramming it into that tiny building. Nevertheless, the warehouse-like show building was not built until 1968. There was no point in building it until they had settled on whether the HM was going to be a walk-thru or a ride, and if a ride, what kind of ride. Not until they were able to draw up blueprints with the Omnimover system set in stone did they build the show building. As for the elevators, they were built into the façade building from the start. Here's a March '62 blueprint showing the elevators:



    You'll note that everything on the park side of the berm is still a walk-thru format, both above ground and below. The only decision was whether to make everything else, beyond the berm, more of the same or some kind of ride.

    It is fascinating to speculate whether that enclosed area in the southern part of the lot was going to be the site of the Museum of the Weird, which evolved into a sort of pre-show attraction at one point, not part of the Mansion proper. But the enclosure in those old photos doesn't look to me like a "people" building. Where are the doors and windows? (No stretchroom jokes, please. Too easy. Y'all are better than that.)
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  4. #64

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Whenever "the original artwork" of anything is reproduced and reissued, I hope for a more generous cropping, and often I am not disappointed. That is, I hope that they crop the artwork a little wider out, so that details previously lost at the edges become visible for the first time. (What? You too?)

    What is interesting about the two reproductions of the Campbell artwork in the CD package is that each of them does indeed offer a more generous cropping—but in opposite directions. The little booklet is just like the big, album version, except that it goes wider, revealing items previously chopped off on the far right and the far left. Meanwhile, the e-file version goes taller, revealing stuff on top and bottom that neither of the hard copies do.
    If you were lucky enough to buy the full 40th anniversary CD and reproduction Lp set at the Mansion event, you got prints of the paintings in their entirety, all the way to the edges and beyond. Not the entire booklet, but (I think) about 4 full prints. The set included the Story and Song Lp and CD version, plus the HM 40th Anniversary CD and the Campbell prints. The average price for the set on eBay is now around $200.

    What I found interesting is that they had to re-create the Lp cover. Here is the original 1969 cover:



    Surprisingly, the CD cover is not an exact reproduction. The text and Disneyland Records logo are located in different places:



    The CD version is also missing these two images from the Lp:





    BTW, it is also possible to capture the hi-res versions of the Campbell artwork on the CD by "printing" to a PDF file, then converting it back to a .jpg file.

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Let's leave the kids aside for now. The real attractions of the album for hardcore HM fans lie elsewhere. Of course there's plain old nostalgia. But more than this, in the narration you are getting, essentially, an early X Atencio script for the HM, so you can compare it to what is actually there in the ride and instantly see a great deal of what changed and what did not during the course of 1969. Even better, the graveyard sequence contains an early mix of the actual ride soundtrack, and it includes elements that were subsequently dropped or were never used at all, like the whooshing wind rising and falling to the music, the "dum-dum" singer, and the choreographed pop-ups shrieking at the end of each verse rather than randomly (or not at all). But the most obvious attraction of "Story and Song" is the lush, painterly artwork of Collin Campbell, closely based on Marc Davis's concept art but reflecting also what actually went into the ride.
    I've never heard any "pop up" ghosts during the song on the album, only the other vocal tracks like the Hokey Opera Singers and the Executioner in the background, along with the unused "Sleepy Hollow" style wind chorus. There is one later on, under the description of the bicycle ghosts. The "dum-dum" singer is an alternate take from the one used in Florida and Tokyo (but not used in California). It's more of a "La-Daaa da da" rather than the "La da dum dum dum" track heard on the Lp, but it's the same singer. Sadly, only Tokyo still has that vocal since Florida dropped the original recordings.

    Personally, I prefer my own restoration of the Lp to that heard on the CD. Mine retains all of the original stereo elements and the presence of the original recording, which the CD does not.
    Last edited by Grinning Ghost; 05-06-2010 at 02:27 AM.

  5. #65

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I forget if we mentioned this before or not, but could the bride's candle be another visual pun. As in "she's carrying a torch for someone" which is exactly the vibe the old bride(s) always gave me.

    On the other hand, had the Hat Box Ghost been around as planned, perhaps that pun wouldn't have made as much sense.

  6. #66

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Long time lurker summoned by the Falcon to post a pic.

    These Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effects Threads are so on spot and endlessly entertaining. I find a certain comfort knowing that I am not the only one obsessed with the stature, beauty and artistic integrity of Disneyland's Haunted Mansion.

    On my birthday last month I believe HBG2 posted the workers placing glass in the main ballroom and it made my whole day to see the actual upper, lower and doombuggie tracks from the other side.

    Now this thread RegionsBeyond posted this picture of the falcon,


    Which coincidentally is the same falcon I've had as my screen saver the past few weeks, here is another angle,



    Thank You to each of you for your posts and dedication to this amazing Haunted Mansion, a piece of American Art & Lore.

  7. #67

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    That is an excellent photo indeed, hubub, very evocative....and welcome aboard...er...ashore....or wherever you are! , to the Thread.

  8. #68

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    And a thank you as well to HBG2...I love the Colin Campbell "Story and Song" art, and actually, that picture of the executioner and crypt id one of my hands-down favorites of all HM art. It's just so....weird. Perfect mix of sixties kooky, unearthly and appealing all at once. The "pop-up" ghosts are fantastic. Thank you for the large format and zoomed in versions! If only there was a wallpaper sized one...

  9. #69

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Mine goodness! You're all shtaring at us. Ve better shtart the show rolling.


    Sorry. Couldn't help myself. RB started it!!

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    Mine goodness! You're all shtaring at us. Ve better shtart the show rolling.
    Oh, good, someone is awake in their crypt out there and knows their tiki lingo I'm the one who's really sad....when I smile, it comes out MAD.

  11. #71

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    A while back, I believe HBG2 (or somebody) posted a picture of the 13-hour clock that comes right after the CoD. However, something seemed wrong about it. After riding the mansion again, I realized what it was: the hand in the picture is coming from the left side of the clock, but in the actual mansion it comes from the right side. So, I suppose the other picture was either taken at the WDW mansion, or they've messed with the effect since that picture taken.

    Also, out of curiosity, which direction does the Doombuggy in the WDW HM pass the clock by? In the DLR, it passes from right to left.


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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    BTW, it is also possible to capture the hi-res versions of the Campbell artwork on the CD by "printing" to a PDF file, then converting it back to a .jpg file.

    I've never heard any "pop up" ghosts during the song on the album, only the other vocal tracks like the Hokey Opera Singers and the Executioner in the background, along with the unused "Sleepy Hollow" style wind chorus. There is one later on, under the description of the bicycle ghosts.
    First, thanks for all the interesting stuff in that post. As for the pop-up ghost choreography, we had an earlier discussion here. On the "Story and Song" soundtrack, not only the shriek heard about where the bikers are mentioned, but also the villainous laugh and the one that sounds like "eee-yeah" written on silly putty and then stretched out—those too are pop-up vocals. You'll notice that these yelps, laughs, squeals, etc. occur during the tune at, "ggg come out to socialiiiiiiiize," i.e., the end of each verse.

    Quote Originally Posted by hubbub View Post
    Long time lurker summoned by the Falcon to post a pic. [...] Now this thread RegionsBeyond posted this picture of the falcon,

    Which coincidentally is the same falcon I've had as my screen saver the past few weeks, here is another angle,

    Falcon good picture, and welcome. They're really amazing birds. The Peregrine Falcon in attack flight is the fastest creature on planet Earth, clocking at around 200 mph. It attacks other birds. Pigeons are a favorite. At that speed the falcon would injure itself if it hit the pigeon full-on, so it deliberately hits the pigeon's wing and then comes back for the fallen bird at a more leisurely pace, or catches it in mid-air if the attack took place high enough. Probably the ultimate origin of our verb, "to wing," meaning "to cripple." Then there's the whole business of falconry, a sport which may go back 3000 years.

    Fascinating bird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garfieldo View Post
    A while back, I believe HBG2 (or somebody) posted a picture of the 13-hour clock that comes right after the CoD. However, something seemed wrong about it. After riding the mansion again, I realized what it was: the hand in the picture is coming from the left side of the clock, but in the actual mansion it comes from the right side. So, I suppose the other picture was either taken at the WDW mansion, or they've messed with the effect since that picture taken.

    Also, out of curiosity, which direction does the Doombuggy in the WDW HM pass the clock by? In the DLR, it passes from right to left.
    The picture is indeed from WDW. And in all of the HMs, you pass through the clock hall the same way, right to left.
    Last edited by HBG2; 05-06-2010 at 09:21 AM. Reason: fix link
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  13. #73

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by clockworkmonkey View Post
    I forget if we mentioned this before or not, but could the bride's candle be another visual pun. As in "she's carrying a torch for someone" which is exactly the vibe the old bride(s) always gave me.

    On the other hand, had the Hat Box Ghost been around as planned, perhaps that pun wouldn't have made as much sense.
    I think your explanation is the most likely, in all seriousness--if I've learned nothing from these three years of threads (good lord, it HAS been three years*) it's that the HM is based around wordless puns. It's nothing BUT visual puns.

    *Just a quick semisentimental/shocked note....I was a junior in high school when I started posting here. For those of you who don't know much about me, I'm 20 now. It's sort of amazing to think that, with all the changes that have happened to me in those three years, this discussion has remained a constant. In T6 when I left for a while and called you guys my family, you sort of are. ...how the hell did that happen?
    dreams. come. true.

  14. #74

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    First, thanks for all the interesting stuff in that post. As for the pop-up ghost choreography, we had an earlier discussion here. On the "Story and Song" soundtrack, not only the shriek heard about where the bikers are mentioned, but also the villainous laugh and the one that sounds like "eee-yeah" written on silly putty and then stretched out—those too are pop-up vocals. You'll notice that these yelps, laughs, squeals, etc. occur during the tune at, "ggg come out to socialiiiiiiiize," i.e., the end of each verse.
    The link doesn't work.

    Anyway, there are absolutely no pop-up ghosts heard in the GGG song on the Lp. Only the opera singers on the right channel, just as Thurl hits the deep note of "socialiiiiiiiizzzze". That is Loulie Jean Norman from the Hokey Opera track. Not a pop-up ghost. (And no Executioner as I had previously thought.) Listening to it as I type this.

    That mix includes:

    The Instrumental Base BGM Track (left)
    The Unused "Sleepy Hollow" wind chorus (left)
    The Graveyard Band (left)
    The Singing Busts (center)
    The Monotone Chorus (center, barely audible under the busts' audio)
    The Unused "Dum-Dum" singer (center)
    The Hokey Opera Singers (right, very low)


    That is all.

    The others you mentioned all appear after the song, under the narration during the instrumental.
    Last edited by Grinning Ghost; 05-06-2010 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Inadvertently deleted one from the list.

  15. #75

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    (And no Executioner as I had previously thought.)
    Pffft... Figures I would be left out. Why am I always left out? Is it something I did? Hahahaha

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