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  1. #7801

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by skoolpsyk View Post
    Great find CDW!!

    An aside: How in the world does this thread have only a 4 star rating? Who in the world would rate it less than 5???? if there was ever a definition of epic thread is this not it???
    I suspect there are some who think it used to be fabulous, but it ran out of gas some time ago and it's running on fumes today. After all, how much can you learn and discuss about even the greatest theme park rides without running out of material eventually? If this Thread gets a five, what should some of those early Threads get? A six?

    In response, I think much of that impression is illusionary. There's plenty of dead air in the first Threads and plenty of stuff that has since proven false (much of it from yours truly). The pace of newly discovered material and never-before-discussed topics has inevitably slackened, but new stuff continues to come to the surface, like new concept art from Ken Anderson and Sam McKim just in the last several pages. And no one knew that McKim had even DONE any concept art for the interior before. New photos surface, old mysteries are solved, etc.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  2. #7802

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I've never rated a thread. If you asked me I wouldn't even be able to tell you how to rate a thread. And I'm still not that curious about it, now knowing that it exists.

  3. #7803

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    I suspect there are some who think it used to be fabulous, but it ran out of gas some time ago and it's running on fumes today. After all, how much can you learn and discuss about even the greatest theme park rides without running out of material eventually? If this Thread gets a five, what should some of those early Threads get? A six?

    In response, I think much of that impression is illusionary. There's plenty of dead air in the first Threads and plenty of stuff that has since proven false (much of it from yours truly). The pace of newly discovered material and never-before-discussed topics has inevitably slackened, but new stuff continues to come to the surface, like new concept art from Ken Anderson and Sam McKim just in the last several pages. And no one knew that McKim had even DONE any concept art for the interior before. New photos surface, old mysteries are solved, etc.
    I also think since this was the thread where PLQ reaction happened and as a rule people tend to want to avoid negativity, Not that I think we should have given PLQ a free pass (Far from it, actually) but I think it might have hurt ratings-wise though I really hate the bottom line school of thought.

  4. #7804

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I was wondering, by making one of Connie's husbands a hunter:
    Could it be referring to a famous piece of concept art by Marc Davis?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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  5. #7805

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    It's things like the Marc Davis drawing above that made me fall in love with Disneyland.

    That is absolutely brilliant.
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  6. #7806

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by PhonyKingOfEngland View Post
    I was wondering, by making one of Connie's husbands a hunter:
    Could it be referring to a famous piece of concept art by Marc Davis?
    I don't think there's any doubt that Reginald is modeled on Marc's "Great White Hunter."






    I'm actually surprised that there aren't some old shotguns and hunting rifles in the tableau. They're instantly interesting props under any circumstances.
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  7. #7807

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by PhonyKingOfEngland View Post
    I was wondering, by making one of Connie's husbands a hunter:
    Could it be referring to a famous piece of concept art by Marc Davis?
    I would be shocked if that drawing was not referenced at all by the Constance Creative team.
    That's the kind of self-referencing that adds to the experience and makes it richer in contrast to the PLQ school of thought which is self-referencing at the expense of the experience. BTW, according to the thread over at wdwmagic, The HM Plaques have been moved closer to the entrance. Hopefully this is both a throwback to the original setup and a backup when/if FP+ fails miserably as I am sure it will and the current entryway structure can be demolished restoring the original sense of looming over the rest of Liberty Square on a hill.
    Last edited by HMF; 09-28-2013 at 07:50 PM.

  8. #7808

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Hey all!

    Don't know if this was posted here, but Mike Lee uploaded this photo of the WDW load area which shows that originally it used the Disneyland Portrait Corridor wallpaper:

    Name:  1277675_643178169035176_1547921254_o.jpg
Views: 417
Size:  57.1 KB

    ..which I thought was fun. I don't know when the red/white paper came in, I can remember it as far back as I've been going.

    I walked through the interactive queue the other day and it's amazing how ratty it's gotten in... what? Two and a half years? The popping books are just plain off and a lot of the material the various setpieces are built out of has started to look crappy and weatherbeaten in the sun. The busts never came online, nor did the proposed decor additions to the ride (I know WDI commissioned a bunch of stuff that will apparently never be seen, including a painting of the Headless Horseman to appear in the library).

    According to a friend of mine who is generally reliable, all of the WDW interactive queues have been cancelled. Pirates of the Caribbean, set for last October, quietly never happened. There's been no movement on Peter Pan's Flight or Small World. Supposedly a combination of poor reception to the Mansion queue, operational challenges at the Dumbo queue, cost overruns at the Big Thunder Queue (which I actually really like) and high maintenance costs put the kibosh on them. Disney's "NextGen" initiative is now 120% overbudget and still a disaster, and the interactive queues are the fat that was trimmed. At D23 Expo, Tom Staggs was doing an about-face on NextGen at Disneyland, where suddenly he was saying that it was not a "one size fits all solution".

    Apparently WDW didn't expect the beating guests subject the queue-pieces to and is balking at the bills. I wouldn't be surprised to see most of these "enhancements" scrapped entirely in the next ten years. Golf claps for Disney all around, please.

    The CGI hitch-hikers also look kinda cruddy right now. They're hazy and supposedly the effect never quite worked as well as intended. I wouldn't be surprised to see that effect replaced as well eventually. WDW has proven themselves to be the grand masters of throwing good money after bad these past few years.

  9. #7809

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    *golf claps*

    This seems like a piece of good news... perhaps Disney won't be implementing the NextGen stuff out here at DLR, given the way things have gone over at WDW.
    "I keep telling people not to lick the bats, but do they listen? Ha."
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  10. #7810

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Thanks much for that update, Foxxy. Lots of good info in there. As for "poor reception to the Mansion queue," this is the first hint I've ever seen of that. Is that really their reading? My impression has been that PLQ detractors were numerically too few to matter, and that PLQ has been a hit with the general public.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  11. #7811

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    PLQ has been a hit with the general public.
    But we are definitely NOT​ the general public!

    "You’ll have bad times, but it’ll always wake you up to the good stuff you weren’t paying attention to."

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  12. #7812

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Thanks much for that update, Foxxy. Lots of good info in there. As for "poor reception to the Mansion queue," this is the first hint I've ever seen of that. Is that really their reading? My impression has been that PLQ detractors were numerically too few to matter, and that PLQ has been a hit with the general public.
    I would describe the general public's reaction as "mixed". They're not upset for the reasons than fans are, though WDW is entirely aware of what fans think. The reason why the reaction has been mixed has a lot to do with placement. Many guests sense that they're basically at the attraction and resent being pushed through a "hidden" queue when the front door is right there. Once they're in the queue, they often can't figure out what to do. They make a beeline for the busts (something that disrupts the line, making it difficult to pass through this spot), and find that the busts, in fact, don't do anything. The music crypt is a big hit, although you do need to spend several minutes with it in order to get the most out of it. Unless the line is at a full stop, most people just kinda hit random spots on it. The crypt is designed so you have to hold your hand on any one spot for a beat or two before the music is heard, and most people simply will not invest the time into figuring this out - they walk by, touch it while walking, hear a half note, then continue walking, randomly hitting parts of the box with their hands.

    I don't think I've ever seen anyone frolicking with King Squirty, something guests otherwise will do at any time for any reason. The Poetess crypt is a complete loss - nobody can figure out what to do with it. Guests will just stand there listening to her and watching the book until some kid finally figures it out and calls out a response. I have occasionally seen a group that will go into the queue and actually spend time at the effect playing the game, allowing the line to pass around them, but most of the time this corner of the queue is totally deserted. People bunch up at the busts and the music crypt then dash through the rest.

    The ride operators, meanwhile, hate the thing, both as fans and professionals. It's hard to get in and out of there, and when you do get inside you are surrounded by guests - on busy days, it's a zoo. Many of them simply won't do anything to keep the lines moving, leading to disgrunted guests who complain that the effects are backing up the line. I've also often gone at night to see that the door at the end of the divider is simply left open, allowing you to bypass the queue. Many ride operators have set the thing up to fail, and it's failing.

    Compare this to the Dumbo queue, which supposedly is what finally put the nail in the coffin for NGE queues. Dumbo is a playground for little kids that's supposed to double as a line - so if Dumbo would ordinarily have a 20 minute line, you would instead sit in the playground for 20 minutes until summoned to return and board the ride directly. However, in rebuilding Dumbo, WDW wanted to double the capacity by having two Dumbo rides next to each other, and furthermore moved the ride to an odd spot that many guests have trouble finding. The demand for the ride remained the same or slightly less than it always had, except now with two Dumbo rides, there was hardly ever a line. When the playground first opened, EVERYONE had to wait in the playground - kids or not - for at least ten minutes. This caused an apocalyptic reaction - would you want to sit and watch someone else's kids? Then the rule became if you had kids you had to wait, but parents didn't like this because now they were being penalized for bringing kids on a kids ride. Now they simply run the playground like a side attraction - groups with kids are given the option to run around in there and return when they like. Hardly anyone uses it, because people aren't conditioned to expect to bump into a playground on their way to a ride. Most of the time you'll see 3 or 4 kids running around in it, and that's it. WDW sees that as a complete loss - they may as well have not built it.

    So the Mansion queue isn't a disaster on that scale but Ops is finding it more trouble than it's worth. The thing that really sent the message, however, wasn't forum posts for complainy blog posts like mine, but that 40th anniversary t-shirt that featured entirely HM Queue stuff. Mansion merch is expected to sell big, but people avoided this like the plague. Eventually they took the "limited edition" stickers off them and dropped the price and they still weren't selling. Last I saw they had sent them over to Disneyland, where they aren't selling either. But the recent line of coasters and the music box? Parks can't keep them in stock. Disney has seen their Mansion profits tainted by association with the queue.

  13. #7813

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    For the record, I like the queue.

  14. #7814

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxxFur View Post
    I would describe the general public's reaction as "mixed". They're not upset for the reasons than fans are, though WDW is entirely aware of what fans think. The reason why the reaction has been mixed has a lot to do with placement. Many guests sense that they're basically at the attraction and resent being pushed through a "hidden" queue when the front door is right there. Once they're in the queue, they often can't figure out what to do. They make a beeline for the busts (something that disrupts the line, making it difficult to pass through this spot), and find that the busts, in fact, don't do anything. The music crypt is a big hit, although you do need to spend several minutes with it in order to get the most out of it. Unless the line is at a full stop, most people just kinda hit random spots on it. The crypt is designed so you have to hold your hand on any one spot for a beat or two before the music is heard, and most people simply will not invest the time into figuring this out - they walk by, touch it while walking, hear a half note, then continue walking, randomly hitting parts of the box with their hands.

    I don't think I've ever seen anyone frolicking with King Squirty, something guests otherwise will do at any time for any reason. The Poetess crypt is a complete loss - nobody can figure out what to do with it. Guests will just stand there listening to her and watching the book until some kid finally figures it out and calls out a response. I have occasionally seen a group that will go into the queue and actually spend time at the effect playing the game, allowing the line to pass around them, but most of the time this corner of the queue is totally deserted. People bunch up at the busts and the music crypt then dash through the rest.

    The ride operators, meanwhile, hate the thing, both as fans and professionals. It's hard to get in and out of there, and when you do get inside you are surrounded by guests - on busy days, it's a zoo. Many of them simply won't do anything to keep the lines moving, leading to disgrunted guests who complain that the effects are backing up the line. I've also often gone at night to see that the door at the end of the divider is simply left open, allowing you to bypass the queue. Many ride operators have set the thing up to fail, and it's failing.

    Compare this to the Dumbo queue, which supposedly is what finally put the nail in the coffin for NGE queues. Dumbo is a playground for little kids that's supposed to double as a line - so if Dumbo would ordinarily have a 20 minute line, you would instead sit in the playground for 20 minutes until summoned to return and board the ride directly. However, in rebuilding Dumbo, WDW wanted to double the capacity by having two Dumbo rides next to each other, and furthermore moved the ride to an odd spot that many guests have trouble finding. The demand for the ride remained the same or slightly less than it always had, except now with two Dumbo rides, there was hardly ever a line. When the playground first opened, EVERYONE had to wait in the playground - kids or not - for at least ten minutes. This caused an apocalyptic reaction - would you want to sit and watch someone else's kids? Then the rule became if you had kids you had to wait, but parents didn't like this because now they were being penalized for bringing kids on a kids ride. Now they simply run the playground like a side attraction - groups with kids are given the option to run around in there and return when they like. Hardly anyone uses it, because people aren't conditioned to expect to bump into a playground on their way to a ride. Most of the time you'll see 3 or 4 kids running around in it, and that's it. WDW sees that as a complete loss - they may as well have not built it.

    So the Mansion queue isn't a disaster on that scale but Ops is finding it more trouble than it's worth. The thing that really sent the message, however, wasn't forum posts for complainy blog posts like mine, but that 40th anniversary t-shirt that featured entirely HM Queue stuff. Mansion merch is expected to sell big, but people avoided this like the plague. Eventually they took the "limited edition" stickers off them and dropped the price and they still weren't selling. Last I saw they had sent them over to Disneyland, where they aren't selling either. But the recent line of coasters and the music box? Parks can't keep them in stock. Disney has seen their Mansion profits tainted by association with the queue.
    Looks to me like we Californians needn't worry too much about the Dreads coming west, and hopefully, hopefully, they're thinking twice about the CGI HHG's too if they're persistently glitchy in Orlando.
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  15. #7815

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Looks to me like we Californians needn't worry too much about the Dreads coming west, and hopefully, hopefully, they're thinking twice about the CGI HHG's too if they're persistently glitchy in Orlando.

    Good! I like my doll-on-a-stick hitch-hiking ghosts. And the ambiguously spooky queue. Without things to "play" with.
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