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  1. #7861

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    ton of hatbox ghost merchandise the past few months....if he isnt in the mansion in January, i am going to be piss

    i love the gargoyle candle holders....i have a handful of them...accidentally broke 2 of them

  2. #7862

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Ironically, that photo of the HBG isn't Disney; it's an HBG-like mask someone was selling several years ago. Rippin' off the ripper-offers.
    You're kidding! That's rather disappointing to hear. I mean, surely Disney had its own photos to use?

    They were talking HBG up during the tour quite a bit - his history, the devotion of the fanbase, etc - which makes me hopeful for a return. But like the del Toro Haunted Mansion movie, I won't believe it's happening until I actually see it.

  3. #7863

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    The Museum of the Weird comic that was teased at D23 has been revealed and officially titled as "Seekers of the Weird", set to be the first in a new imprint for Marvel titled "Disney Kingdoms" which is focused around the theme parks, with the first issue being set for release in January. Rolly wasn't being consulted at first, but they're bringing him in this week to approve some details.

    FIRST LOOK: Marvel’s “Seekers of the Weird” comic to launch new Disney Kingdoms series inspired by theme parks | Inside the Magic

    Story seems to be playing off some of the occultic imagery and connecting the Museum to a sinister cult.
    M-I-C-K-E-Y P-R-I-M-E

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  4. #7864

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Ironically, that photo of the HBG isn't Disney; it's an HBG-like mask someone was selling several years ago. Rippin' off the ripper-offers.
    It looks similar to the picture in the CoD, but straight on instead of with the head turned slightly.

  5. #7865

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by makaiju View Post
    You're kidding! That's rather disappointing to hear. I mean, surely Disney had its own photos to use?
    it actually happens a lot with other companies....i think hasbro toy company has used a ton of star wars fans photographs for their toy promotions and boxes.......


    i was at disney the other day, and saw this great pumpkin carved by ray brown....

    Last edited by EvilRocketeer; 10-07-2013 at 04:35 PM.

  6. #7866

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by bigcatrik View Post
    It looks similar to the picture in the CoD, but straight on instead of with the head turned slightly.
    Unfortunately, the website that had the mask is now defunct, but here's the link to when HBG2 originally found it:

    Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    The hair is distinctive.

  7. #7867

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Ah, thanks CDW, you saved me a search expedition. I wonder if the site is defunct because Disney smacked them down, so now there's no one to protest Disney's reuse of their copyright-infringing image. Probably not, but it's fun (?) to think about.

    I can't say I'm terribly impressed with the artwork for that MotW comic book cover. Oh well, we'll see how it turns out. Thanks, Fig, for the heads-up.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  8. #7868

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Ah, thanks CDW, you saved me a search expedition. I wonder if the site is defunct because Disney smacked them down, so now there's no one to protest Disney's reuse of their copyright-infringing image. Probably not, but it's fun (?) to think about.
    It appeared to be an artist's portfolio website, so the artist in question should still retain any nominal copyright (we'll get to that later) in the images regardless of whether Disney made him stop promoting his hatbox work. A little sleuthing led me to discover that said artist is one Eric Skodis, who's done some impressive Disney-themed work even beyond the HBG. He was also associated, at least in a graphic artist role, with a band that used some imagery we may be familiar with.

    The copyright question is actually quite interesting (at least to me - excuse the following IP lawyer nerdiness). If Skodis were to try to object to Disney's appropriation of the image, Disney could argue that the image is merely an exact photographic reproduction of the mask, and as such cannot have any copyright protection beyond the copyright of its subject matter. Since that subject matter, the mask, is an unauthorized derivative work, and thus is itself ineligible for copyright protection (see the interesting case of Anderson v. Stallone - yes, that Stallone), the only copyright present in the image is that of the original, derived-from work, the Hatbox Ghost figure, which Disney owns anyway. Therefore, in fact the only entity legally authorized to reproduce that image is Disney. Whether Disney has actually considered any of this is questionable, since it seems more likely that somebody in merchandising just snagged the image from the internet, assuming that it was a COD picture, but it's still an interesting situation. Or heck, maybe the unthinkable happened and they actually licensed it from Skodis and made an honest ghost out of it. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled mansion...

  9. #7869

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Time for another one of those...

    SEMI-SUPERPOSTS

    This is great, because it's another example of these:

    1) Just when you think you've noticed everything, you discover a charming new detail
    2) It reinforces and adds to a previously-noted point of continuity in the interior architecture of the house. In other words...
    3) More amazement than ever over the attention to detail in the HM

    As we move along, it'll be stuff almost all of you know, moving into stuff many of you know, ending up with something I'll bet none of you ever knew. So don't bail out early.

    We have long recognized that there are lion-head corbels at the Conservatory that match the corbels in the Ballroom, both those that are actually on the pillars of the arcade holding the giant panes of glass, and those painted on the back wall of the Ballroom.





    Some of you may not realize that the lion heads are on all four sides of the capitals of those arcade columns.



    We have admired the way the Imagineers subtly tied the interior architecture together in this way. Well, prepare to increase that admiration.

    We turn now our interest to the left side in that photo, the doombuggy balcony. Across the front of it, in front of the buggies, is a plain framework which forms a sort of frame for the familiar wrought iron work that constitutes the main railing. Attached to this framework at two points are supports that connect it to the ceiling of the balcony. (You can see the two supports below the Egyptian and Soldier pair up above the ceiling.)

    Here's another shot that shows the two supports. They sort of flare slightly wider as they reach the ceiling.



    Incidentally, they pass in front of the wrought iron railing, as you can see in the extreme left and extreme right of these photos. The railing passes behind it without interruption.





    So...how is that long stretch of wrought iron railing anchored? There are round, narrow poles at each end into which the railing connects. The poles are positioned similarly to the twin supports midway, that is, they extend from the floor of the balcony to its ceiling, just as they do, only back several inches. They've always been there, as this 1969 photo shows on its extreme left:



    Now let's go back to the Conservatory once again. Across from it and coming just before it, of course, is the Endless Hallway. It has corbels too, but they're not lions, they're snakes.



    I've sometimes wondered why they didn't repeat this motif somewhere, just as they did the lion's heads. When they redesigned Mdm Leota's table, they did just that, although I've always thought it was kind of bizarre to have the snakes upside down on their heads like that.



    Anyway, that table is not original. It came along many years later after they had tried to make the table levitate and then gave up on it.

    Well guess what? Those two poles supporting the wrought iron railing at both ends are topped with serpent head corbels. They rarely show up in photos, and you have to wonder how many people have ever noticed them. There's a nice silhouette of them in the upper left of this photo:



    This is the clearest photo I've seen:



    The other end. Just enough to verify it's there.



    So the serpent corbels at the Endless Hallway are not orphans, after all, and never have been. Just like the Conservatory's lions, they are repeated at the Ballroom.

    Have any of you ever noticed them before?
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  10. #7870

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Unless of course, you think they're birds or gryphons. That's possible; there are a lot of gryphons in the Ballroom, and those could be feathers behind the heads, but the mouths echo the design of the serpents pretty closely.

    Last edited by HBG2; 10-08-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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  11. #7871

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Nice catch! I think I'm going to have to come down on the gryphon side, though. Those crests look too much like the crests you traditionally see on gryphons, the top half of the mouth seems particular beak-like, and the snake mouths, while close, aren't so perfect of a match to demand a conclusion:
    Name:  CorbelX.jpg
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    (Snake corbel picture from Daveland)
    (EDIT:Heh - HBG2, you made the same comparison image while I was writing this. I swear I didn't copy!)

    Though to be fair on the crest thing, it wouldn't be the first time they've used crested serpents:
    Name:  SnakeHandle.jpg
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Yeah, I forgot to mention the doorknobs, which continue the serpent motif but obviously follow a different design.

    The gryphon interpretation looks strong, I must admit, although in the dark I wonder if those "feathers" can even be seen. Whatever they are, it seems like they've hardly ever been noticed, so they're a great new overlooked detail.

    Ballroom gryphons:





    I notice that one thing every gryphon in the HM has in common is a prominently displayed tongue, without exception.
    Last edited by HBG2; 10-08-2013 at 08:03 PM.
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Incidentally, if you look at that 1969 photo up there, you'll notice that there is no wooden framework behind the wrought iron ("behind," looking out from the buggy side). That framework is probably related to the addition of a glass or plexiglass layer following the 1974 gunshot incident, a precaution against future vandalism that could damage the big glass panes.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  14. #7874

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    I notice that one thing every gryphon in the HM has in common is a prominently displayed tongue, without exception.
    I noticed that; it's also almost universal in old gryphon imagery. Another point for the contra-gryphon side is that the other HM gryphons, as well as the old imagery, seem to all have prominent ears, which the corbels lack (that top "feather" could be interpreted as an ear, but it's not at all clear). From Micechat user Ron W:
    Name:  GryphonSide.jpg
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    I don't think we can overlook those feathers, though, regardless of how unlikely they are to be noticed. The lack of ears and tongue is making me lean more toward the bird (traditionally eagle) interpretation:

    From the coat of arms of Romania:
    Name:  Coat_of_arms_of_Romania.svg.png
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    And of the Russian Empire:
    Name:  Lesser_Coat_of_Arms_of_Russian_Empire.svg.png
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    And as a comparison:
    Name:  CorbelX1.jpg
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    As shown in the Russian Empire example, heraldic eagles often have tongues too, but I've seen more eagles without tongues than gryphons without tongues. Alternatively, they may have just made something that they thought looked good, and it wasn't intended to be any of these things specifically, but rather to draw from all of them.

    I'm going to be at Disneyland on Friday, and I've been working on an IR illuminator for my camera. Between hacked-together electronics, mediocre camera skills, and the possibility of garishly-painted plywood blocking the view, I make no promises, but I'm going to see if I can get a clearer shot of the corbels.

  15. #7875

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Lonesome Ghost was kind enough to let me get a glimpse of what you might call accurate representation. This is what the corbel actually looks like:



    It's a gryphon all right. It's carved out of wood, too. Methinks this could well be the handiwork of Ciro Rolando Santana y Arrite. So forget all that stuff about snakes, except insofar as there is a nice stylistic harmony and continuity in the depictions of the mouths on the gryphon, serpent, and lion corbels.

    I'm still jazzed that a decorative item this rich and "obvious" has gone virtually undetected for so long (unless I'm the last person to notice something others have known about for years but never talked about).

    Technically, since it's only the head, you could call it an eagle's head, but with all the gryphons around, I don't think anyone is going to dispute the point.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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