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  1. #8206

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Haven't been able to see the Mansion for a bit... are the Duelers/gunshot sound effects still missing? I'm REALLY panicked about that being permanent...

  2. #8207

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    The duelers were not there last Saturday on my one ride-through in the afternoon (I was with a group). The legs under the table were also missing. And the dancers are much brighter than I've ever seen them, very much like that recent picture I linked to earlier in this post:
    The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    The shadow piano player is not in the attic, though the keys move. The old man is back in the graveyard, but IIRC he had a red light on him.

  3. #8208

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    The legs are there but they were difficult to get a look at for some reason. Did they alter the railings in the ballroom? I couldn't get as good a look at the legs under the table or the ghost and bust on the fireplace because the railing was blocking the view. Could be a false alarm, but something seemed off here.

  4. #8209

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I looked long and hard for the legs (as much as you can while moving) because they're one of my favorite "plusses" and could not see them at all. Maybe their light was completely dead. The light levels between the guests at the table and the birthday girl seemed way off, with her seemingly way too bright, like the aforementioned dancers, and the table guests barely perceptible. I only got one ride through but you get 15 seconds there so I think my perceptions are reasonably credible. I'll be back in a few weeks, though (AP again this year).

    On a personal note, this was the first time I'd ridden through with my mother since my very first trip through in the very early 70s as a wee lad, when I was absolutely terrified the entire time.

  5. #8210

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright



    Got this on Main Street.

  6. #8211

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Lonesome Ghost wondered what I thought about the rings in Marc Davis's April-December set.





    I told him you could concoct a story to explain them. April starts out innocent and ringless, but by the time she's June she's using bling to attract attention to herself. However, she's not about to get married as she's having too much fun being free and naughty: that is not a wedding ring she's wearing. September finds that successful flirtation is getting harder. She has to expend more effort than she once did, symbolized by the larger ring. Eventually it's too late. She has used up the clock and can't get a husband at this stage of life even if she wants one. By December she is fated to die an old maid, ringless as she began.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  7. #8212

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Hmm - that story works, but I guess I always assumed that the ring(s) indicated either marriage or engagement: in April, she's young, unmarried, and innocently pretty; in June, she's saucier and more knowing, either engaged or newly married, depending on whether you interpret the difference in ring color as either different rings or just Davis not being overly careful with continuity; in September she's married, but aging and unattractive; in December she's a decrepit widow (hence the absence of ring). The portrait's changes show an individual aging through various unpleasant life stages, bringing up all the "impermanence of beauty" themes that have been covered here before. I have trouble imagining Davis drawing her wearing a ring on the ring finger of her left hand, only at the two ages she'd be most likely to be married, without intending to communicate that she's married - he of all people would be aware of the importance of small but evocative details on a quick viewing. The significance of a ring on that finger of that hand was as much then as now, yes?

  8. #8213

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by CDW View Post
    in December she's a decrepit widow (hence the absence of ring).
    Most widows at the time the HM artwork was done would either have continued to wear their wedding ring (as many elderly widows do today) or moved it to their right hand (a custom not often observed today).

    “That's the way a lot of things happen... You think one person did something
    but he was just the one to put the color on it." – Ken Anderson
    ​I'm blogging here again!

  9. #8214

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Attic Haunt View Post
    Most widows at the time the HM artwork was done would either have continued to wear their wedding ring (as many elderly widows do today) or moved it to their right hand (a custom not often observed today).
    I agree that it's a weak point in the narrative, but I would say that the presence of the ring in the first place is of more cultural significance than the absence of the ring at the end. While continuing to wear the ring as a widow was the general practice, it wasn't universal, and in the context of the changing portrait it's difficult to suggest widowhood otherwise without changing her clothing, which isn't an option. I think the image of the elderly widow is much more powerful, and thus the deviation from practice justified. Admittedly the elderly spinster works even better in some ways, which is why I appreciate that interpretation, but it just seems unlikely to me that Davis would have drawn in a ring on that specific finger without intending to communicate that she's married.

  10. #8215

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I think it's decisive that neither of them look like any kind of traditional wedding or engagement ring. If Davis had wanted to communicate a married or engaged status, we would have seen a band or a diamond.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  11. #8216

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    I think it's decisive that neither of them look like any kind of traditional wedding or engagement ring. If Davis had wanted to communicate a married or engaged status, we would have seen a band or a diamond.
    While not very popular these days, wedding and engagement rings with large emerald-cut stones were not unheard of, especially among the extremely rich. Witness Wallis Simpson, the Duchess of Windsor:
    Name:  _Wallis.jpg
Views: 258
Size:  26.3 KB

    See also Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and Grace Kelly. I'm not sure a more typically-sized ring or band would have read well enough to even see it as the portrait changed.

    In any case, even granting that the big emerald-cut stone was an unusual choice if the intent was to instantly read "wedding ring", why would Davis have put it on her left ring finger if that wasn't what was intended? It would have been easy to put it on the next finger over, or on her other hand.

  12. #8217

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Found this on an old Scholastic Record from 1970, called "The Haunted House and Other Spooky Poems and Tales":

    Name:  01_FrontCover-Med.jpg
Views: 237
Size:  140.2 KB

    Track 03, an excerpt from "Sir Roderic's Song" by W.S. Gilbert

    "When the night wind howls in the chimney cowls,
    And the bat in the moonlight flies,
    And inky clouds, like funeral shrouds,
    Sail over the midnight skies.
    When the footpads quail at the night bird's wail,
    And black dogs bay at the moon,
    Then is the spectres' holiday--
    Then is the ghosts' high noon!"

    As read by Paul Hecht on the record, it sounds eerily familiar to a certain Graveyard Jamboree, at least it does to me! Anyone else ever noticed the similarity to Grim Grinning Ghosts? Every time I hear it, I expect to hear "As the moon climbs high o'er a dead oak tree..." as the next line, but instead just moves on to the next track on the record.
    Last edited by Grinning Ghost; 02-19-2014 at 07:07 PM.

  13. #8218

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by CDW View Post
    While not very popular these days, wedding and engagement rings with large emerald-cut stones were not unheard of, especially among the extremely rich. Witness Wallis Simpson, the Duchess of Windsor:
    Name:  _Wallis.jpg
Views: 258
Size:  26.3 KB

    See also Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and Grace Kelly. I'm not sure a more typically-sized ring or band would have read well enough to even see it as the portrait changed.

    In any case, even granting that the big emerald-cut stone was an unusual choice if the intent was to instantly read "wedding ring", why would Davis have put it on her left ring finger if that wasn't what was intended? It would have been easy to put it on the next finger over, or on her other hand.
    For me, when one must resort to phrases like "Not unheard of" and "even granting it's an unusual choice," the debate is pretty much over. I can't believe Davis would EVER demand such special pleading before viewers could accurately read one of his paintings. I suppose the rings are where they are precisely because that is where people will look to see if she's married. And a big diamond ring would have been perfectly visible. If she's supposed to be married, Davis did a shockingly bad job of communicating it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    Found this on an old Scholastic Record from 1970, called "The Haunted House and Other Spooky Poems and Tales":

    Name:  01_FrontCover-Med.jpg
Views: 237
Size:  140.2 KB

    Track 03, an excerpt from "Sir Roderic's Song" by W.S. Gilbert

    "When the night wind howls in the chimney cowls,
    And the bat in the moonlight flies,
    And inky clouds, like funeral shrouds,
    Sail over the midnight skies.
    When the footpads quail at the night bird's wail,
    And black dogs bay at the moon,
    Then is the spectres' holiday--
    Then is the ghosts' high noon!"

    As read by Paul Hecht on the record, it sounds eerily familiar to a certain Graveyard Jamboree, at least it does to me! Anyone else ever noticed the similarity to Grim Grinning Ghosts? Every time I hear it, I expect to hear "As the moon climbs high o'er a dead oak tree..." as the next line, but instead just moves on to the next track on the record.
    It does indeed sound familiar. It's from Ruddigore.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  14. #8219

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    For me, when one must resort to phrases like "Not unheard of" and "even granting it's an unusual choice," the debate is pretty much over. I can't believe Davis would EVER demand such special pleading before viewers could accurately read one of his paintings. I suppose the rings are where they are precisely because that is where people will look to see if she's married. And a big diamond ring would have been perfectly visible. If she's supposed to be married, Davis did a shockingly bad job of communicating it.
    It's hardly special pleading - I recognize the weakness of that aspect of my interpretation, but I brought in the argument to oppose the notion that the ring's non-stereotypical nature was "decisive" of anything in particular. The portrait presents ambiguous, conflicting information - my interpretation is more consistent with the presence and location of the ring, but weak on its characteristics, whereas your interpretation fits better with the style of the ring, but doesn't explain why Davis would draw a ring on the finger that traditionally indicates marriage if he didn't intend to communicate that. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "I suppose the rings are where they are precisely because that is where people will look to see if she's married", but I'd offer that it's at least as unusual for an unmarried woman to wear any kind of ring at all on that finger as for a married woman to wear a ring of that type. If we're talking about Davis doing a bad job of communicating his intentions, putting a ring on the left ring finger of a woman he's trying to tell us is a spinster is a communications train wreck. I'll admit I'm not an expert in historical ring etiquette, and if it was common either when the portrait was drawn or during the period it's intended to represent for unmarried women to wear large rings on their left ring fingers, I'd definitely consider that a point in your theory's favor, but I don't believe that was the case.

    I like my interpretation, obviously, and I think it better explains the available evidence, but I think yours also works, and hits on some tropes that work very well with the themes of the changing portraits. Unless someone turns up a lost interview or notebook where Marc Davis explains exactly what kind of woman he had in mind, we really can't know definitively. And even if someone did find that notebook, such evidence has never stopped literary interpretation before .

  15. #8220

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    It does indeed sound familiar. It's from Ruddigore.
    I do remember that post on your blog, but I never noticed just how similar the patter is to GGG until hearing it read aloud as a poem on the Scholastic record. (Da da dum dum dum, da da dum dum dum - it works for both!) Hearing it sung, the beat is just so different and off, it just doesn't sound much at all like GGG, and I never gave it much thought. It just doesn't have a catchy tune as song, I suppose, so I totally forgot about your blog post on the subject. A few familiar words or similar phrases, but otherwise doesn't make me think of GGG. Also, there seems to be two different spellings of "Roderic" and "Roderick": not sure if it's just a typo on the record or what...

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