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  1. #8566

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by bondfan2000 View Post
    Well, whatever happened to our new "Haunted Mansion" movie from Guillermo Del Toro? It's been years since he said that he would do the movie. It should have been done, out to the theatres, and out on DVD by now!

    What's the latest word?

    Anybody?
    Del Toro still says he'd love to do it, and scripts have been submitted, but Disney hasn't approved any of them. Also, del Toro's schedule is extremely tight. So, it's not dead, but it's up in the air.

    I made a gif of the two shots 40 years apart. What strikes me is how little has changed, not how much.

    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  2. #8567

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    SUPERPOST, more or less

    This is a by-product of a post I'm working on featuring Sam McKim. Among Disney buffs, McKim is most fondly remembered for his oversized "fun maps" of Disneyland, done between 1958 and 1965 (although the copyright dates found on them are confusing—the '59 and '60 maps still carried the "1958" date, and the '65 map still carried the "1964" date). McKim usually changed what needed to be changed (i.e. new attractions and lands) but left the remainder of the old map intact. It would be interesting to compare his first and last maps in detail to see how much remained unaltered throughout.

    Anyway, in the process of assessing McKim's connection with the HM I briefly mention his depiction of the building on these maps. That got me going, and I've got quite a few such depictions now. Not quite worth a blog post, but worth a Thread post, for kicks and giggles. Some of this is probably old hat, some of it probably is not.

    On the three 1958 maps (actually 58, 59, and 60) and the 1961 map, McKim depicted his own version of the HM, about where Indy is today.



    For the 1962 map, McKim drew in the building we have today in its correct spot. It remained unaltered on the 64—65 maps (no map was produced in 1963). This is my favorite version.



    McKim didn't do any Disneyland maps after that, but others did, always keeping some continuity with McKim's versions.

    The 1966 map was reportedly done by Collin Campbell in a more painterly style, and it revised the HM completely:



    Here's a better version, from 1968 (the HM was unaltered, and no map came out in 1967).



    The building is now much less accurate, and a curious front yard cemetery goes around the back of the house. I've crunched the numbers for width, and it's not really possible that they ever seriously contemplated having people go around the back of the building in that way. Also included is a non-existent front gate and walkway leading to the front door. But what is really surprising is the inclusion of the show building on the other side of the tracks. This map is a curious blend of hyper-realism (inclusion of an accurately-shaped show building) and sheer fantasy (wildly inaccurate house and yard design). Notice that nothing is written on the show building. In 1966 they didn't know for sure what was going to be in there.

    Most interesting of all to me is the fact that the show building is already there and accurately shaped on the 1966 map, even though it wasn't built until 1968! This proves that already in 1966 they had a pretty definite notion of what the building was going to be like in both shape and size. That's new information to me. Strange that it comes from a "fun map."

    Collins' version was reproduced unaltered for several years. This is a 1976 map. The only difference is that the show building is now covered with titles. The next map to come out after 1968 was in 1972, and as you might expect it had the titles. (Maps came out in 74 and 75 also.)



    There was no map in 1977. In 1978 they decided to go back to the more graphic, sketchy look of the McKim maps and away from the painterly look of the Campbell maps. The show building—always a bizarre inclusion—was eliminated, but the building design was still pure Campbell. The strange, wrap-around graveyard was still there, as well as the phantom entrance gate. Appropriately, the HHGs were now included as the ride's mascots. That version of the HM remained the same on the maps that came out in 79, 82, 83, 84, and 87. Here's 1983:



    Here's 1989. The only change is that the HHGs have to be relocated because of Splash Mountain.



    Sam McKim came out of semi-retirement to do the "fun" map for EuroDisneyland. I'm told those 1992 maps are real collector's items now. Here's Phantom Manor:





    Between 1989 and 2000 the only new DL map that came out was in 1995. The house had been redrawn slightly more accurately. It remained the same on the 2000 map, which you see here.



    A diminutive Caretaker is now on the map. Madame Leota is also depicted as another mascot for the ride, along with the hitchers. What is remarkable is that she's got an open spellbook in front of her in a 1995 sketch. That won't happen in the ride for another ten years. At DL she had always had a book on the table, but it was always closed. The big, open spellbook prop was added in 2005. In my opinion, this is probably a coincidence and nothing more. Perhaps Madame Leota saw into the future and tipped off the artist. I suppose you could take the little "motion indicators" (curved lines) below and to the left of the orb as prophetic too.

    The HM was slightly redone for the 2001 map and remained unaltered on the 2005 and 2008 maps that followed. The fastpass gardens were depicted, and at long last the phantom entrance was eliminated, making room for the front yard hearse. The basic Campbell house design remained intact. Vestiges of the graveyards were still there, although you can argue that ever since they started including mascots on the maps like the HHGs, the Caretaker, and Mdm L, the graveyard is to be understood as simply a motif from the ride. (Notice that the HHGs are emerging from it.) Mdm L had additional motion indicators added above and to the right, which was again prophetic in a 2001 drawing since she wouldn't start moving until 2005! But curiously enough she still had her stand. This is 2008:



    As an appendix, here are a few notable depictions outside the big souvenir maps. Here's how the HG looked on the 1963 map done for National Geographic:



    Here's from a 1966 park guide map, obviously based on the National Geographic version!



    The rambling edifice depicted on park guide maps for several years now reminds me of nothing so much as the house from the old "Thrilling Chilling Sounds" album cover. The phantom graveyard is STILL there. (This is 2012.)



    Last edited by HBG2; 06-01-2014 at 08:12 AM.
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  3. #8568

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I found a first. Here is a picture of WDW's Hitchhikers in which they actually look good!
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  4. #8569

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Or, "...as good as they are able to look."

    Turns out I got too excited about Leota with an open spellbook in a 1995 drawing. I've found one (and only one) old photo of her that shows an open book in front of her, but it seems clear that this one photo was indeed the model for the map drawing. Mystery solved.

    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  5. #8570

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Or, "...as good as they are able to look."
    Very true, but at least they look a helluva lot better compared to this:
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  6. #8571

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Haunted Mansion Update 6/1/2014 (2 rides early morning):

    Pickwick is still missing.

    The (natural) webs on the foyer chandelier are coming along nicely. ;-)

    I know I tend to report the inoperative/missing elements but I want to point out one effect that I think is better than I ever saw in 2012 and that's the organ banshees. The return loop in back used to be inadvertently lit by enough spill to illuminate them and kind of ruin the effect for me, but now the only banshees visible are the ones in front, exiting the organ, as it should be.

    The Mansion was walk-on so I didn't get to go over and smell the flowers near the skunk's memorial. Next time...

  7. #8572

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    In case you're wondering, I've been rifling through my brother's huge piles of Disney books again, and I've brought back some treasures.

    One item was a very high quality print of the famous 1953 proto-Disneyland sketch done by Herb Ryman and Walt Disney over a marathon weekend. Most reproductions of the map leave something to be desired, but I found a pretty good one. That means we can blow up the haunted house on the map like we could never do before. I've added some color.



    Some other items of interest are new Yale Gracey publicity stills. You will recall that in early 1969 Yale struck comic poses with various Mansion residents (using Peppers Ghost most likely) in photos to be used in newspapers to plug the upcoming HM ride. Here's one you've probably seen before, but the ones you see out there are cropped quite a bit more than this:



    This one is completely new to me, and rather unique.



    Lastly, here's a wonderful 2005 quote from Teller (as in "Penn and Teller," the magical act):

    “As you might imagine, I’m a long-standing fan of the Haunted Mansion, mainly because it contains such beautiful use of the classic Peppers Ghost in the ballroom scene. In fact, this version is even more classic than that. It harks back to Dircks, who actually invented the principle in 1858. The very idea that the lame amusement park Spook House with its air-jets to blow up the girls’ skirts, could become such a work of art just thrills me.”

    Carlene Thie, Homecoming Destination Disneyland (Riverside, CA: Ape Pen Publishing LLC, 2005) 108 (our emphasis).

    Amen to that.
    Last edited by HBG2; 06-03-2014 at 08:07 AM. Reason: correct a photo
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  8. #8573

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I love those publicity shots!
    I pledge allegiance to the Earth, one planet, many gods, and to the universe in which she spins.

  9. #8574

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Some other items of interest are new Yale Gracey publicity stills. You will recall that in early 1969 Yale struck comic poses with various Mansion residents (using Peppers Ghost most likely) in photos to be used in newspapers to plug the upcoming HM ride. Here's one you've probably seen before, but the ones you see out there are cropped quite a bit more than this:



    This one is completely new to me, and rather unique.

    They're BOTH new to me. The only others with Yale that I recall feature Hattie, not Pickwick or the Duelists.

  10. #8575

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Hopefully the third times a charm.
    I tried unsuccessfully to post these images of issues 27 and 12 Witches Tales at Comic-Covers.Comas possible influences since these comics came out in the 50's.
    In my original post, I went into detail about them both, but alas, it is gone and I'm too frustrated to rewrite it now.
    The gist was comics back then had a lot of giant spiders in them. I had previously assumed the giant spiders were simply taken from the Jungle Cruise cause they were "creepy" but now I can see that at the time, they were a sizable force in horror stories. There were even jiant spiders in movies like Tarantula and (arguably) The Incredibly Shrinking Man.

    I'm loving the Trip reports BTW. Thanks for sharing them.

    I think I may have to go through my dad's National Geographic collection to find that Disney map. I feel sorry for Gus being left the other maps though. Its not as if he takes up a lot of space.

    Nice clear pictures of the new HBG effect! It is much better than any others I have seen. Thanks for sharing!

    OH, credit where credit is due, I first found the images of the comic books at MONSTER BRAINS
    If you like monsters in any form it is worth checking out. It has 1000s of photos from old books, other cultures, toys, movies and other weird things. Although I haven't visited it in a year, it is in my top 10 blogs.

  11. #8576

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Great collection of old pulp horror covers, Karl! The giant spider web/spider is indeed a trope, and that passed over to the Jungle Cruise in Florida as well as the Mansion.

    Very good map post, HBG2 - the artwork on a lot of those is great. I really like the Ryman map blown-up image in particular, it is quite charming and Charles Addams-esque (too much so for Walt, I am sure) with the rambling structure and turrets and forced into multiple layers. Halloween-ish, rather than stately.
    when the spooks have a midnight jamboree....

  12. #8577

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    new post up at the blog
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  13. #8578

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreepy Karl View Post
    Nice clear pictures of the new HBG effect! It is much better than any others I have seen. Thanks for sharing!
    For a second there I was like WHAT!? Then I realized you meant HHG lol
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  14. #8579

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    "Lemme outta here!"

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by xFoolishMortalx View Post
    Wonder how high those will go.

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