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  1. #76

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Since we're all family here, it's your turn to do the dishes, Cait. I did 'em last time.

    I posted a 1962 blueprint a few posts back. It's not very high rez, unfortunately, but here I've blown up a few places. This one is useful because, as Fenwright noted, there are some ridiculous assertions about the planning of the HM out there. I've had debates with more than one person who thinks the elevators may have been put in after the façade building was already built. Even Surrell's book absurdly suggests that Marc Davis's ride script from 1964 may have been the inspiration for the stretchrooms. This blueprint slams the door on these and other misconceptions, so you may want to file it somewhere where you can grab it when you need it.





    Like I said, I wish it were higher rez, but the gist is there. The date is not easy to read, but it appears to be "3 - 19 - 62."

    Now here's the kicker. Do you see the note in the upper right on the blueprint section posted above? "Garden Wall 8' Fencing," with arrow. There's our mystery structure once again.










    That may be it under construction on the left in this photo:




    Whatever its purpose was, it had a handsome brick archway in at least one place:

    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  2. #77

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Executioner View Post
    Pffft... Figures I would be left out. Why am I always left out? Is it something I did? Hahahaha
    Yep.

    Kind of ironic, in a way. The Executioner is mentioned, however the busts' vocals pop up again inexplicably at that point instead.

  3. #78

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Since we're all family here, it's your turn to do the dishes, Cait. I did 'em last time.

    I posted a 1962 blueprint a few posts back. It's not very high rez, unfortunately, but here I've blown up a few places. This one is useful because, as Fenwright noted, there are some ridiculous assertions about the planning of the HM out there. I've had debates with more than one person who thinks the elevators may have been put in after the façade building was already built. Even Surrell's book absurdly suggests that Marc Davis's ride script from 1964 may have been the inspiration for the stretchrooms. This blueprint slams the door on these and other misconceptions, so you may want to file it somewhere where you can grab it when you need it.





    Like I said, I wish it were higher rez, but the gist is there. The date is not easy to read, but it appears to be "3 - 19 - 62."

    Now here's the kicker. Do you see the note in the upper right on the blueprint section posted above? "Garden Wall 8' Fencing," with arrow. There's our mystery structure once again.










    That may be it under construction on the left in this photo:




    Whatever its purpose was, it had a handsome brick archway in at least one place:

    I'm not sure what it is you're trying to ascertain. Can you circle or highlight what it is you're trying to show us in all the photos?

  4. #79

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    So this is all about the square-ish bricked walled area just opposite the water tower right? Is that buried? cause it looks almost as if it is below the ground level of what is now the queue area. I am sure part of that wall is seen as the back side takes you to the emergency exit from the portrait hallway. Just confused as to why they have that sectioned walled off if it is buried and no purpose for a room or rooms and such. Just odd.

  5. #80

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I'm talking about this structure, which is certainly not all underground today. Some or all of it was eventually removed, and I'm just curious as to what it was for, and how much, if any of it, is still there today.



    For example, the part that is furthest right in the photo resembles the southernmost part of the queue area today, i.e., the outer wall of the "chicken exit" trench and its exit point where the walls overlap. But at the northern end, the part of this structure that is closest to the HM seems to be the huge brick wall visible in the newly uncovered pre-opening photo and on the blueprint as an eight foot "garden wall." That part is gone, at any rate. What was this whole area all about? I'd like to hear our resident architecture hypergeek's opinion (i.e., Datameister).
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  6. #81

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    What ever it was, it does'nt look temporary. I mean I see re-bar and cement panels, which means it was most likely poured into forms; and it's probably got a foundation a few feet in the ground. This structure looks to me like a second building foundation going in. But if it was going to be the "Museum of the Weird" would it interfere with the queue of the mansion, like cause congestion from this unkown's exit?

  7. #82

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Ah, ok - I think that underground portion may just be the chicken exit. What else is back there in the chicken exit besides hallways and stairs? Could that area house some of the mechanics for the elevators? Heat/AC for the facade building perhaps? As for the above-ground portions - yes, that could have been the foundation for the Museum of the Weird. It was still being planned to be built at that point, wasn't it? They could have planned to incorporate the Museum as a pre-show segment of the queue, filtering people through it on the way into the Mansion itself.

    Any other ideas?

  8. #83

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    The link doesn't work.

    Anyway, there are absolutely no pop-up ghosts heard in the GGG song on the Lp. Only the opera singers on the right channel, just as Thurl hits the deep note of "socialiiiiiiiizzzze". That is Loulie Jean Norman from the Hokey Opera track. Not a pop-up ghost. (And no Executioner as I had previously thought.) Listening to it as I type this.

    That mix includes:

    The Instrumental Base BGM Track (left)
    The Unused "Sleepy Hollow" wind chorus (left)
    The Graveyard Band (left)
    The Singing Busts (center)
    The Monotone Chorus (center, barely audible under the busts' audio)
    The Unused "Dum-Dum" singer (center)
    The Hokey Opera Singers (right, very low)


    That is all.

    The others you mentioned all appear after the song, under the narration during the instrumental.
    Link is fixed.

    I'm sorry, I need to be clearer. The pop-ups at DL are timed to come up at the close of each verse of GGG. Originally, they all had vocal outbursts as they rose, and it seems that there were multiple outbursts for each of the seven pop-ups, which means there was a staggering array of yelps, squeals, laughs, etc., only some of which have made their way onto the official or unofficial sound files out there. I've got a 1976 audio tape ride thru, and you can clearly hear the screams and laughs during the "ggg's come out to socialize" line at the end of each verse. Several of them I've never heard anywhere else.

    The "Story and Song" soundtrack does reflect this, but it isn't obvious because the producer suppressed some tracks and highlighted others as the graveyard scene goes along. During the Singing Bust segment and the following segment, which highlights the Band, other vocal tracks are soft-pedaled or suppressed entirely. Beginning about the time the King and Queen are described, the Band too is greatly suppressed and the other tracks are brought up, although not all at once. Anyway, you can hear the pop-up outbursts occurring in the correct place in the song, but only one of them is crystal clear. As the monotone chorus is singing the "socialize" line, the villain laugh is heard. Unfortunately, the producer starts butchering the song after that, so you can't follow the tune properly. Otherwise, it would be easier to hear that the feedback-like shriek (about when the bikers are mentioned) and the leering "eeeeYEAH" also occur on that final line. It's just that the "final line" is now out of place in the total mix, so it's difficult to recognize this.
    Last edited by HBG2; 05-06-2010 at 03:09 PM.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  9. #84

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Fenwright View Post
    What ever it was, it does'nt look temporary. I mean I see re-bar and cement panels, which means it was most likely poured into forms; and it's probably got a foundation a few feet in the ground. This structure looks to me like a second building foundation going in. But if it was going to be the "Museum of the Weird" would it interfere with the queue of the mansion, like cause congestion from this unkown's exit?
    I still am not ready to declare in favor of a MW link, but the queue problem is a non-problem. At one point in its evolution, the MW would have been similar to the pre-show for the Tiki Room. Remember, if they had gone with a walk-thru format, you would have had one big clump of guests at a time. The next clump (or maybe two) would be groovin' on the MW, and the clumps before that would be waiting in a typical queue.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  10. #85

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Sorry in advance if I'm completely off the mark here but having followed the last three LF threads and finding them very informative and fascinating to read I'm tossing in my two cents on the wall thats currently in question. But first I have a question of my own.

    Does anybody know when the ride layout, in plan, was officially set in stone to be the way the ride is as we know it today? From what I've gathered on these threads the building facade was constructed well before the ride openned but could it also be possible that the way the ride would come to be was not yet finalized when the building was being constructed? Would it be possible that a former idea for the ride called for the movement of people to go in a counter-clockwise movement as oppose to the in clock-wise path the ride has now?

    My theory is that if the ride layout had not been finalized could it be possible that we would exit to the left of the Mansion and possibly exit into the Museum of the Weird. Since the museum idea had been around for awhile perhaps they were still planning on including it in some way into the attraction but nixt it in the end. Ofcourse its all just a theory and I have nothing really to back it up
    Last edited by Open_at_the_close; 05-06-2010 at 03:13 PM. Reason: fixed auto-censoring mistake

  11. #86

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    The layout of the attraction itself definitely wasn't finalized until some time after the facade was built and the basement was dug out - it's possible that a counterclockwise direction was considered. (I fixed your post, by the way, I hope you don't mind - you forgot the "o" in "counter", and the word filter got very mad. )


  12. #87

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    LOL its fine

    But yeah looking at the picture taken inside the tunnel, a walkway going up (as we currently exit the mansion now) could easily have been placed there.

  13. #88

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Just thought I'd have to chime in about those graveyard pop-up vocals - although this time it was from an audiotape I made of the WDW version of the HM way back in 1973. One thing I can still definately remember from listening to that tape over and over back then is that the first pop-up ghost just to the right (as you enter the graveyard proper through the graveyard gates) was that it was accompanied by the same long, drawn-out female scream also heard earlier in the COD. And it was *loud* volume-wise - you can hear it again and again no matter where you were while riding through this section of the ride. The thing is it didn't seem to correlate to the GGG song as the DL version was supposed to - it pretty much just popped up wherever during the song - as though it was only on a pretty short loop. I remember too there being at least 2 other pop-up vocals heard as well - one near the teeter-tottering king & queen and the other in the vicinity of the hearse ghosts (the cackle heard on the LP); not to mention the bicycle-riders high-pitched shrieks and these too seemed to be pretty random in relation to the song. I wonder if WDW's set-up was intentionally set up like this or they just let all the audio sync-up go to hell?

  14. #89

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Open_at_the_close View Post
    Sorry in advance if I'm completely off the mark here but having followed the last three LF threads and finding them very informative and fascinating to read I'm tossing in my two cents on the wall thats currently in question. But first I have a question of my own.

    Does anybody know when the ride layout, in plan, was officially set in stone to be the way the ride is as we know it today? From what I've gathered on these threads the building facade was constructed well before the ride openned but could it also be possible that the way the ride would come to be was not yet finalized when the building was being constructed? Would it be possible that a former idea for the ride called for the movement of people to go in a counter-clockwise movement as oppose to the in theory clock-wise path the ride has now?

    My theory is that if they ride layout had not been finalized could it be possible that we would exit to the left of the Mansion and possibly exit into the Museum of the Weird. Since the museum idea had been around for awhile perhaps they were still planning on including it in some way into the attraction but nixt it in the end. Ofcourse its all just a theory and I have nothing really to back it up
    The place you enter the building today was always going to be the place you enter. Those two shuttered-up sections of the wrought-iron work (in front of the true entrance) were shuttered like that from the very beginning, when the building first went up. Similarly, the main gate in the outer fence that you enter today was always going to be the entrance point, so whatever snaking around the queue did in between the gate and the door of the house you go into, those basics were set in stone.

    The façade building went up in 1962, completed in January of 1963. The elevators were built into it from the start. The big show building beyond the berm went up in 1968, after they finally figured out what kind of ride system they would use. That was always the general area where the bulk of the attraction was going to be housed, however.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  15. #90

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Link is fixed.

    I'm sorry, I need to be clearer. The pop-ups at DL are timed to come up at the close of each verse of GGG. Originally, they all had vocal outbursts as they rose, and it seems that there were multiple outbursts for each of the seven pop-ups, which means there was a staggering array of yelps, squeals, laughs, etc., only some of which have made their way onto the official or unofficial sound files out there. I've got a 1976 audio tape ride thru, and you can clearly hear the screams and laughs during the "ggg's come out to socialize" line at the end of each verse. Several of them I've never heard anywhere else.

    The "Story and Song" soundtrack does reflect this, but it isn't obvious because the producer suppressed some tracks and highlighted others as the graveyard scene goes along. During the Singing Bust segment and the following segment, which highlights the Band, other vocal tracks are soft-pedaled or suppressed entirely. Beginning about the time the King and Queen are described, the Band too is greatly suppressed and the other tracks are brought up, although not all at once. Anyway, you can hear the pop-up outbursts occurring in the correct place in the song. Two of them are clear. As Thurl does his long laugh at the end of the final verse, you can hear a sardonic "ha, ha, ha" in the background. Similarly, as the monotone chorus is singing the "socialize" line, the villain laugh is heard. Those are pop-up vocal tracks. Unfortunately, the producer starts butchering the song after that, so you can't follow the tune properly. Otherwise, it would be easier to hear that the feedback-like shriek (about when the bikers are mentioned) and the leering "eeeeYEAH" also occur on that final line. It's just that the "final line" is now out of place in the total mix, so it's difficult to recognize this.
    "They saw a hearse stuck in the mud. <maniacal laugh, right channel> The coffin had slipped out; and it's contents, <WHAAA-aaah, right channel> a shrouded corpse, also was sipping a cup of tea. Behind the hearse on a hill, <Squeal EEEEEE-YAHhhooogg, right channel> a group of ghosts were enjoying a bicycle ride through the tombstones."

    Only the first one, the maniacal laugh, is timed with the end of the verse on the beat. The second one is in mid-verse. The third one, which most people affectionately call the "bicycle ghost" squeal is a tad late in its appearance, and that is where the music gets muddled restarting in the wrong place so that it will end as Thurl's narration does.

    One thing I did catch that I hadn't noticed before is there is another possible pop-up sound - only JUST barely there under the word "duchess" ("...and a duchess sipping a cup of tea.") but it is just before the end of the verse. Sounds like it might be a scream, but it's just so faint I can't quite tell. Since all these sounds occur on the right channel, it could be that the engineer was fading in that track of pop-up sounds right at that point, and that's what I'm hearing.

    BTW - that the feedback-like shriek (about when the bikers are mentioned) and the leering "eeeeYEAH is all ONE sound effect, produced by just one person in one take! I have another recording of the whole sound, but someone erroneously mixed it with the attic sounds.

    Pleasant Dreams...?
    Last edited by Grinning Ghost; 05-06-2010 at 03:41 PM. Reason: additional info

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