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  1. #31

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by TDASuit View Post
    Disneyland certainly wasn't a "full born" park in 1955.
    Very true - although it bears mentioning that from day 1, it had the framework for greatness. Its five thematically distinct areas each had a very clear and cohesive set of core ideas that was nevertheless broad enough to allow for imaginative expansion and refreshing over the years.

    The layout also had the potential for greatness: though its purer hub-and-spokes design had flaws, it became a really great layout once a few more paths were added to connect the spokes like a spiderweb.

    Furthermore, the park had some very ugly areas at first because Disney intentionally created areas where trees and foliage would eventually mature. The results weren't pretty in the early years - the entire west side of the park looked pretty barren and "young", based on photos from the 50s and early 60s. But for the majority of the resort's lifetime, those have been some of its most beautiful areas. It would have been unfortunate if Disney had instead just erected buildings throughout that area. Balance is necessary.

    Combine those three factors with the jaw-dropping rate of changes, demolitions, additions, and tweaks in that first decade-and-a-half, and it's no surprise the park became such a favorite, despite its humble yet groundbreaking beginnings!


  2. #32

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMoose View Post
    I do wonder what you would have thought if Paul Pressler built Disney Seas park.
    Do you mean he was the one who built Disney Sea, or he built HIS version that sucked?

  3. #33

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Very true - although it bears mentioning that from day 1, it had the framework for greatness. Its five thematically distinct areas each had a very clear and cohesive set of core ideas that was nevertheless broad enough to allow for imaginative expansion and refreshing over the years.

    The layout also had the potential for greatness: though its purer hub-and-spokes design had flaws, it became a really great layout once a few more paths were added to connect the spokes like a spiderweb.

    Furthermore, the park had some very ugly areas at first because Disney intentionally created areas where trees and foliage would eventually mature. The results weren't pretty in the early years - the entire west side of the park looked pretty barren and "young", based on photos from the 50s and early 60s. But for the majority of the resort's lifetime, those have been some of its most beautiful areas. It would have been unfortunate if Disney had instead just erected buildings throughout that area. Balance is necessary.

    Combine those three factors with the jaw-dropping rate of changes, demolitions, additions, and tweaks in that first decade-and-a-half, and it's no surprise the park became such a favorite, despite its humble yet groundbreaking beginnings!
    This is a great snapshot of how Disneyland came together over the years but you have the benefit of 55 years of hindsight right now and (I'm guessing) you weren't there for at least the first two decades of Disneyland's development.

    We are now 9+ years into the life of Disney California Adventure. If you were in 1964 evaluating Disneyland, would you be able to say the same things that you can today?

  4. #34

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by TDASuit View Post
    Actually, I would argue that EPCOT has been the ONLY "full born" Disney-owned theme park that has ever been built.

    Disneyland certainly wasn't a "full born" park in 1955.

    I think that if one takes an objective look at the attraction line up for both Disney/MGM and Disney California Adventure, I think they are very close to being equals.
    And EPCOT has been one of the most successful 2nd gates there is.

    Disneyland wasn't full born because there was nothing to base it off of. It was the first of it's kind.

    The difference is that Disney/MGM had a was execute better. Disney's California Adventure

  5. #35

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    Comparing a budget-obsessed corporate manager to a serial killer is a bit extreme there.
    I dunno, he nearly tanked Disneyland and nearly tanked Gap... he's a serial company killer, that's close enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by TDASuit View Post
    Good for the OLC! But that isn't how TWDC does it.
    Which is a real, crying shame because when OLC does it, they do it right the first time out.

  6. #36

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by TDASuit View Post
    (I'm guessing) you weren't there for at least the first two decades of Disneyland's development.

    We are now 9+ years into the life of Disney California Adventure. If you were in 1964 evaluating Disneyland, would you be able to say the same things that you can today?
    No guessing needed -- clearly you weren't there for the first two decades of Disneyland's development. I was, as a frequent-visitor kid, teen and adult, beginning in late summer of 1955.

    Frankly, any comparison between the innovation, creativity, planning, growth rate, entertainment philosophy, caliber of customer service and sheer showmanship of Disneyland's first decade and that of DCA is a joke.

    The fact that WDC had over four decades of theme park design and operation experience prior to DCA, which heritage Michael and his minions decided to trash, makes it a bad joke.

    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  7. #37

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    I'm truly hoping that DCA will become a better place to visit. There's always been a feeling of something missing. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes not so much. But, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that things will improve over the next few years.
    Stockholder and Walt Disney Autograph holder!!

  8. #38

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Am I the only one getting the feeling that this 'TDASuit', isn't exactly part of TDA at all.

    "Those who know, do not speak; Those who speak, do not know." Lao Tzu's Lao Tzu Quote

  9. #39

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by TDASuit View Post
    This is a great snapshot of how Disneyland came together over the years but you have the benefit of 55 years of hindsight right now and (I'm guessing) you weren't there for at least the first two decades of Disneyland's development.

    We are now 9+ years into the life of Disney California Adventure. If you were in 1964 evaluating Disneyland, would you be able to say the same things that you can today?
    I think that's a totally fair response - unlike folks such as Mr Wiggins, I can't say that I was around in the park's early years. And I've even made the controversial comment before that I, as a modern theme park enthusiast, would probably enjoy opening-day DCA more than opening-day Disneyland, even though I wholeheartedly agree with Mr Wiggins' assessment of the relative creativity levels required for both parks' initial design. (And I'd rather visit 9-year-old Disneyland than 9-year-old DCA, as far as I can tell.)

    Anyway, I was simply pointing out that while Disneyland was hardly a full-grown park in the beginning, it had all the DNA it needed, whereas certain other parks may require moderate to heavy amounts of genetic restructuring, as it were.


  10. #40

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    No guessing needed -- clearly you weren't there for the first two decades of Disneyland's development. I was, as a frequent-visitor kid, teen and adult, beginning in late summer of 1955.

    Frankly, any comparison between the innovation, creativity, planning, growth rate, entertainment philosophy, caliber of customer service and sheer showmanship of Disneyland's first decade and that of DCA is a joke.

    The fact that WDC had over four decades of theme park design and operation experience prior to DCA, which heritage Michael and his minions decided to trash, makes it a bad joke.

    Mr. Wiggins,

    My focus for this discussion has sprung from the "stores vs. attraction ration" that was brought up earlier.

    You are bringing this to a much more macro discussion comparing the two theme parks.

    As for the criteria that you are adding to the conversation, here's my take:

    Innovation - Disneyland > Disney California Adventure
    Creativity - Disneyland > Disney California Adventure
    Planning - Disneyland = Disney California Adventure
    Growth rate - Disneyland < Disney California Adventure
    Entertainment philosophy - Disneyland = Disney California Adventure
    Caliber of Customer Service - Disneyland > Disney California Adventure
    Sheer Showmanship - Disneyland > Disney California Adventure

    But keep in mind, Disneyland is the GOAT (greatest of all time). Nothing touches it.

    Disney California Adventure may not be for you but the DLR expansion in 2001 was and still is so important to not only TWDC but the city of Anaheim as well.

    Has it had some rough years, yep.

    Will it have some more, yep.

    But we are better off with it.

  11. #41

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by ICe101 View Post
    Am I the only one getting the feeling that this 'TDASuit', isn't exactly part of TDA at all.

    "Those who know, do not speak; Those who speak, do not know." Lao Tzu's Lao Tzu Quote
    Silly...I can't be part of a building.

    But my office is surely in there.

  12. #42

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by TDASuit View Post
    Growth Rate - Disneyland = Disney California Adventure
    Not even. 1959 brought the: Monorail (first in the Western Hemisphere), Submarine Voyage (I believe the 8th biggest submarine fleet in the world), and Matterhorn (first tubular steel roller coaster, ever). In one year just 4 years after the park opened. That is more revolutionary then anything DCA has done within the past 9 years.

  13. #43

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by TDASuit View Post
    ...the DLR expansion in 2001 was and still is so important to not only TWDC but the city of Anaheim as well.

    ...we are better off with it.
    Meaning no disrespect to your Bottom Line Uber Alles philosophy, I'd have to agree with John Hench's observation that "They should've left it a parking lot."

    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

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  14. #44

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by ICe101 View Post
    Not even. 1959 brought the: Monorail (first in the Western Hemisphere), Submarine Voyage (I believe the 8th biggest submarine fleet in the world), and Matterhorn (first tubular steel roller coaster, ever). In one year just 4 years after the park opened. That is more revolutionary then anything DCA has done within the past 9 years.
    Which is why I put Disneyland's innovation as greater than Disney California Adventure.

    What you were quoting was growth rate and Disney California Adventure wins that in my book.

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    Re: What does Paul Pressler think of DCA now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Meaning no disrespect to your Bottom Line Uber Alles philosophy, I'd have to agree with John Hench's observation that "They should've left it a parking lot."

    John was a great man and I feel blessed that I had the chance to meet him and many other Disney Legends that are no longer with us.

    And while his Day One review is one that I would not argue with, there have been enough positive changes for me (that extend past a bottom line) that make the 2001 Resort expansion worth it.

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