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  1. #6751

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Balancing things to do with things to see is important for sure, but I still don't think that using Mickey's face as a weenie instead of something better is suitable. Thats what I was trying to say. From that, they are probably going to include those details and thats good, but balance is the key.

    Characters in attractions and walking around should be proportional to the environments they are in. I've noticed nowhere in Disneyland does Disney rely on huge pictures of Mickey or any other character because they rely on other things to draw people around. I'm not saying that the characters need to be withdrawn from the park, but just not plastered on buildings, landmarks and monuments.

    As for the sun and the face, the improvements are there but still, why not just let a Ferris Wheel be a Ferris Wheel? The lights themselves would be so much better.
    That's the thing - I can't argue with the logic. It probably would be "better," but better doesn't always equal more attractive to families, nor is "better" always the right option when you're looking to repair a park's sullied reputation.

    I think we (Disney message board fanatics) tend to underestimate certain things, such as sometimes needing to be a little blatant to get things across to the average park guest. I can't tell you how many times, during WoC construction, I heard people say that it was a new ride, a submarine ride, etc, when they looked at the structures being built. The funny part: this would always be RIGHT in front of the signs/artwork that explained exactly what WoC was going to be. My point here is that sometimes Disney needs to be a little bit "on the nose" when it comes to things like this.

    As for Disneyland not needing a huge Mickey head... well... first of all, they do have one, right inside the ticket turnstiles. They also have the advantage of having been there for 55 years and being the first park at the DLR, so people are a lot more familiar with it. It doesn't have a land with a reputation that needs to be fixed.

    Ultimately, Disneyland "rules" don't necessarily apply in the same manner at DCA. DCA needs to prove to people that it's not what people thought it was, while Disneyland doesn't need to prove anything. Everyone grew up visiting it, and knowing what it's "all about." DCA has a very tough task as they try to prove that it has the same broad appeal that DL does and therefore they have to, on occasion, be a little bit too obvious about the fact that things have changed. Simply removing the scary metal sun from the wheel would help, but I honestly think it was somewhat necessary for them to put something there that screams at you "this attraction is different now." While the ride itself isn't literally different, people subconsciously sense it when there's a big, classic style Mickey face on it. A blank space there wouldn't accomplish the same thing, especially for the "common guest." I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, it's just that a theme park can be overwhelming when you don't study it in-depth, and sometimes simple, straightforward icons like a giant Mickey face can make things a lot easier for someone who isn't a hardcore fan.

  2. #6752

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    double post
    Last edited by Trevor; 11-09-2010 at 08:18 AM.

  3. #6753

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Not going to lie, I had a big post written up but after accidentally clicking on the add beside the box, it was lost.

    Basically, Disneyland does have Mickey but its outside the park at the entrance exactly where one might expect the logo for the theme park which bares Disney's name. However, inside the park, the draws are in theme with the environments that contain them and still work great. Following that example, DCA too could do the same thing with thematic weenies that would work on enthusiasts and common guests alike just as they do across the esplanade. The difference is, it would be in theme as well.

    To that end, I personally thing flags, banners and bunting on Screamin' and throughout Paradise Pier would not only add the energy and whimsy the place currently lacks, but it would also draw people in with the promise of fun our favourite forty foot mouse currently tries to. The difference being the first option carries the story and theme of the pier. Keep mickey and the gang on the carts if you must, but we don't need to undercut the subtle balance that Disneyland perfected in DCA to try and prove what it is.

    Offer the guests a better experience and a more attractive park and you won't need blatancy to get your point across. They will just enjoy it because its so good. If people start having a good experiance at DCA, the world will get out and the crowds will come.

  4. #6754

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    I don't follow Al's recent explanation of the bay water issue.

    How is it redirecting water to the mist screens reduces water being filtered? The mist screens dump into the bay too. You can't add more water to the mist screens and not increase the water being taken out of the bay too. And unless they are just flushing that water, it must be recycled somewhere. I don't see how more mist screens = less filtration volume.

    Unless mist screen water feed is pulled from the bay and not filtered at all... and diverting water to it instead of sending back to the filtration plant.. which would then feed back into the bay.

    So the mist screens would have to be fed from the bay directly for this to make any sense to me.
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  5. #6755

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    I don't follow Al's recent explanation of the bay water issue.

    How is it redirecting water to the mist screens reduces water being filtered? The mist screens dump into the bay too. You can't add more water to the mist screens and not increase the water being taken out of the bay too. And unless they are just flushing that water, it must be recycled somewhere. I don't see how more mist screens = less filtration volume.

    Unless mist screen water feed is pulled from the bay and not filtered at all... and diverting water to it instead of sending back to the filtration plant.. which would then feed back into the bay.

    So the mist screens would have to be fed from the bay directly for this to make any sense to me.
    Yeah it sounds a bit confusing but the point is pretty clear... not enough bay water is getting piped to the filtration system, and it is proving difficult to add new piping while the show is still performing full-time.
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  6. #6756

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    This is what Al said that doesn't completely make sense.

    The cause behind the brown water is due to a last-minute need to re-pipe a lot more water away from the filtration plant and to the rear mist screens in order to satisfy Bob Iger’s late mandate that the show be performed higher in the sky so more of the audience could see it. The result is that the volume of water sent through pipes daily to the filtration plant has been dramatically reduced
    The volume of water being pumped through the system has to be the same no matter how much water is being pulled into the mist screens. Maybe he means the volume of "dirty" water? That could happen if there is some kind of eddy created by the mist screen pumps that prevents that water from ever reaching the filtration pump.

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    DCA needs a Fantasyland equivalent, and the Pier is going to do that
    This is where I disagree, considering that when the makeover is done the entire park is basically going to be a spread out Fantasyland. What they needed was a section of the park with atmosphere, like the American Seaport at DisneySea, or Asia and Africa at Animal Kingdom, or the World Showcase at Epcot, or New Orleans Sqaure and Adventureland at Disneyland and Magic Kngdom. A special area that doesn't rely on its rides to make it fun to be at, which is why I think Carsland was a poor choice for their new area.

    Anyway, it's alright to add the Little Mermaid and Toy Story to the pier, but I think they should've stopped there and then focused more on creating depth in atmosphere

  8. #6758

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by simba View Post
    That's the thing - I can't argue with the logic. It probably would be "better," but better doesn't always equal more attractive to families, nor is "better" always the right option when you're looking to repair a park's sullied reputation.
    But how do you know for sure that "better doesn't always equal more attractive for families"? So are you saying that to the average park guest, if it doesn't have a huge disney moniker slapped on a disney ride that no one will want to go on it? I feel there are far too numerous examples across disney parks throughout the world to demonstrate that a ride doesn't have to have a disney franchise plastered all over it in order for it to be successful and appeal to family members of all ages (e.g., pirates, big thunder mountain, matterhorn, space mountain, its a small world, haunted mansion, etc). Sure, you may point out that those rides have been there for a long time and have built up a reputation for being quality rides within the Disney community and that DCA faces the challenge of trying to attract guests when it doesnt have as good of a reputation, but what about when Disneyland first opened? The disney name had been around for almost 20 years, and non disney rides proved to be incredibly popular, even though Disneyland hadn't really earned a reputation during its initial years of operation. To this day the most popular attractions at Disneyland are NON disney themed rides. Im not arguing that DCA shouldnt have ANY disney character franchise rides. What i'm saying is that there needs to be a balance, and at this point I feel Disney is turning DCA into a mainly character driven park. And to be perfectly honest, i feel that adding THAT many characters into a theme park is just an excuse for a lack of creativity or wanting to be a little more creative. I feel that you can achieve the same results of mass appeal without the need for so much disney character branding of rides.

    [/QUOTE]Ultimately, Disneyland "rules" don't necessarily apply in the same manner at DCA. DCA needs to prove to people that it's not what people thought it was, while Disneyland doesn't need to prove anything. Everyone grew up visiting it, and knowing what it's "all about." DCA has a very tough task as they try to prove that it has the same broad appeal that DL does and therefore they have to, on occasion, be a little bit too obvious about the fact that things have changed.[/QUOTE]

    My question is: Why cant Disneyland "rules" apply in the same manner at DCA? A good ride is a good ride, and even if it doesnt have a disney franchise character slapped on it, if its a good ride, word of mouth will spread and it will eventually be popular. So in all honesty I dont necessarily buy the fact that mickey's fun wheel or any of the other paradise pier rides needed to have disney characters in order for it to get the attention of people. If the theming is done correctly and appropriately, and if its a good ride, it shouldnt matter to the average guest whether or not a disney character sports its moniker on the ride, it should be successful and it should attract people no matter what. I feel its this kind of mentally up in TDA that has really stolen the creativity that COULD be present in the park and that could make it just as successful as Disneyland, without the need for Disney characters. Sure, nostalgia and reputation have made Disneyland successful and what it is today, but I would argue its the LACK of in your face disney character franchises slapped on every ride that makes the park special and gives it its special charm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor;1056323953[B
    Offer the guests a better experience and a more attractive park and you won't need blatancy to get your point across. They will just enjoy it because its so good. If people start having a good experiance at DCA, the world will get out and the crowds will come.[/B]
    EXACTLY my point!

    Quote Originally Posted by Prospekt View Post
    This is where I disagree, considering that when the makeover is done the entire park is basically going to be a spread out Fantasyland. What they needed was a section of the park with atmosphere, like the American Seaport at DisneySea, or Asia and Africa at Animal Kingdom, or the World Showcase at Epcot, or New Orleans Sqaure and Adventureland at Disneyland and Magic Kngdom. A special area that doesn't rely on its rides to make it fun to be at, which is why I think Carsland was a poor choice for their new area.

    Anyway, it's alright to add the Little Mermaid and Toy Story to the pier, but I think they should've stopped there and then focused more on creating depth in atmosphere
    Agreed. Although i like some of the new additions to the park so far, and many of the thematic detailing has been greatly improved (TSMM, all of the stands on the pier, paradise park, etc), i do wish they would take it easy on all the new character rides and franchises they are implementing.

  9. #6759

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    so more water is being pumped to the rear mist screens? i applaud that and have quietly wanted that since i saw the show from the parade route. since there isnt stadium seating obviously and youve got thousands of people standing infront of you, its not such a bad idea. although everything is terraced, it doesnt work as good as it would if the screens were larger. i hoped for the height equaled to the middle of mickeys fun wheel. could larger pumps, and a redesigned nozzle be added? lastly, while watching woc if you look at the the pattern of the water as it exits the nozzle of the rear mist screens, it seems irractic as opposed to a fine sheet which is better for projections. think fantasmic mist screens, and woc fountain testing late 2007 when they test projected Cars. but that was seemingly lower in height, and water pressure. i think with the added volume of water, it has affected the surface of the water screen while maybe lowering the clarity of the images (not by much tho). would a better nozzle head thats calibrated to work with the changed pressure fix it?
    Last edited by tahjvtec; 11-09-2010 at 01:26 PM.

  10. #6760

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Here are some pics of the plaza today.



    Last edited by mickey11; 11-09-2010 at 02:18 PM.

  11. #6761

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by Prospekt View Post
    This is where I disagree, considering that when the makeover is done the entire park is basically going to be a spread out Fantasyland. What they needed was a section of the park with atmosphere, like the American Seaport at DisneySea, or Asia and Africa at Animal Kingdom, or the World Showcase at Epcot, or New Orleans Sqaure and Adventureland at Disneyland and Magic Kngdom. A special area that doesn't rely on its rides to make it fun to be at...
    Do you not think that Hollywoodland will serve this purpose?
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  12. #6762

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by BiggestDisneyFan View Post
    Do you not think that Hollywoodland will serve this purpose?
    Or in that matter Grizzly Peak Recreation Area, Condor Flats, Pacific Wharf/Winery, and BVS. I know personally, I never ride GRR yet I spend a lot of my time at DCA in the GPRA. I love being in that land. The water, the mist, the music, the trees, the plants, the rocks...everything about it. I love photographing and walking through Pacific Wharf and there are no rides there. Winery is always relaxing and if you've ever sat on the second floor you feel like you're not in a theme park(until the parade comes by lol). BVS I'm sure will be the same way. None of these lands have characters at all and at least for me I enjoy being in them for the atmosphere.

  13. #6763

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Woah!! All the trees are missing from the landscaped area surrounding the Ugliness Formerly Known as Hubcap. That was FAST! So incredibly excited for this transformation. I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. . .from excitement and anticipation.

    Thanks for the photos, Mickey11!!! Great job.

  14. #6764

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    WOW. What progress!
    @Monorailorange

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Without the trees and the western entrance mural, it's amazing how much the "studio stage" type buildings take over the sightlines, both is the Soarin' direction and the HPB direction. Better get used to seeing those ugly buildings for the next 12-18 months.
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