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  1. #8161

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by theeighthpassenger View Post
    The back of Everest in WDW looks TERRIBLE outside the park. It really ruins the illusion.
    But you can't really see it from many places outside the park. There aren't many roads that go that way.
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  2. #8162

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    I don't understand why it really matters what you seen outside the park. If the company really thought that it was important for the public to see all the detail outside the park they would not have flat walls on attractions. No need to waste money on something like that.

  3. #8163

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by BassBone View Post
    But you can't really see it from many places outside the park. There aren't many roads that go that way.
    You can see it from the parking lot, but even then, it doesn't matter. Everest is a little bit different because it is an icon but the millions of dollars that would be needed to theme the backs of these berms is totally not worth any benefit.

  4. #8164

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    This rumor that Duffys days are numbered are completely false. He is here to stay. And it wouldn't make sense when hes pulling in enough numbers to stay. I see more people buy Duffy than other types of merchandise that I feel should be pulled off because it never sells.

    But I do agree Disney is doing a horrible job on marketing him. I posted in another thread that it would be a great idea to use him after all te renovations to promote the new direction of the park! He could be like a mascot to DCA an they could release costumes of all the new additions.

  5. #8165

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by Abercrombie140 View Post
    I don't understand why it really matters what you seen outside the park. If the company really thought that it was important for the public to see all the detail outside the park they would not have flat walls on attractions. No need to waste money on something like that.

    I think there are a couple of conflicting issues there. In Disneyland's case, obviously there are numerous boring backstage buildings that can be seen from outside the park. However, there aren't (and shouldn't be) any of the attraction facilities that lose their in-park essence when seen from the outside of the park, as Expedition Everest does.

    I think the issue is that any in park elements should retain their theming if they can be seen and identified from outside the park. However, if there is no way to identify the in-park theming from outside the park, then the exterior portions can be dealt with in other manners.

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Yeah, that's the key difference that your post doesn't account for, Abercrombie140. Disneyland and DCA do have a scattering of attractions with backstage portions that are visible (to varying extents) from the outside world, but most people can't tell what they're looking at. They don't know if it's a ride show building, much less which one it is. Expedition Everest is fundamentally different in that there's no doubt what you're looking at, no matter what angle you're viewing it from. So if you see it from the back, your brain can associate the backstage view with the onstage view, thereby "ruining" it when you're in the park.


  7. #8167

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    I think there are a couple of conflicting issues there. In Disneyland's case, obviously there are numerous boring backstage buildings that can be seen from outside the park. However, there aren't (and shouldn't be) any of the attraction facilities that lose their in-park essence when seen from the outside of the park, as Expedition Everest does.

    I think the issue is that any in park elements should retain their theming if they can be seen and identified from outside the park. However, if there is no way to identify the in-park theming from outside the park, then the exterior portions can be dealt with in other manners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Yeah, that's the key difference that your post doesn't account for, Abercrombie140. Disneyland and DCA do have a scattering of attractions with backstage portions that are visible (to varying extents) from the outside world, but most people can't tell what they're looking at. They don't know if it's a ride show building, much less which one it is. Expedition Everest is fundamentally different in that there's no doubt what you're looking at, no matter what angle you're viewing it from. So if you see it from the back, your brain can associate the backstage view with the onstage view, thereby "ruining" it when you're in the park.
    But here is the problem, themeing a portion of an attraction that the guest does not see inside the park doesnt benifit the buisnes. If the atraction was in the middle of the park and can be viewd by all angles then I would consider themeing the entire attraction building only because the guest can see the entire building while inside the gates. The matterhorn is a perfect example of that. You can walk all the way around the attraction. Now with a ride like EE at WDW the guest can't see all the way around the structure. So why would I conjure up the funds to theme a side of an attraction building that a guest inside is not going to see.
    I can sort of understand that, yeah if I can see a huge wall on the other side of a highly themed attraction building, that Im going to be like "oh this is that ride that has the huge wall on the other side". But the vast majority of people are not paying attention to that. They see the detail thats in front of them while in the park. If it was me I wouldnt waste a dime on something that you can see ouside my gates. Ill give the guest that paid money to enter the park the benifit. Not the person standing ouside or off my property. That's why they through up a wall on the other side of that coaster building. Same thing is going to happen to the cars land rockwork. There will be a huge wall slapped up on that side of katella only because there is absolutly no need for detail on that side of the structure. I don't need to cater to guests that are not going to pay to enter the park.

  8. #8168

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by Abercrombie140 View Post
    But the vast majority of people are not paying attention to that. They see the detail thats in front of them while in the park.
    Agreed... I think this is almost exclusively and issue to people like us on MC. Your average person may notice the wall and may even equate it with x, y or z attraction, but once in the park and riding that attraction, if they think of the exterior wall at all, it will be minimal and a passing thing. They aren't going to this, "gosh, that flat wall I could see from the parking structure is really ruining this freaking awesome roller coaster ride for me. Man I wish I hadn't seen that, now I can't seem to think about anything but that flat wall despite the millions of dollars worth of top notch excellent themeing right in front of me. Crap, now I'm going to have to complain to City Hall."

    If they think of it at all it's a "oh cool" before they return to being overwhelmed by the awesome theme and screaming in excitement. It's us who spend so much time thinking about these buildings that seem to be unable to separate our experience inside the park and on the rides from any backstage or secret info we may have seen.

    So really, I don't think Disney needs to worry in any way shape or form about theming from the outside. It makes no sense fiscally (takes lots of money away from the projects for infinitesimal ROI). I'm sorry, but we're just going to have to get over it and learn to better suspend our disbelief. We Disneyland nuts... it shouldn't be that hard to leave the "outside" world behind when we enter the parks.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  9. #8169

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Totally agree ^

  10. #8170

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    On the one hand, yes, this is one of those things that ought to be rather low on the list of priorities. But on the other hand, when there's a chance to fund something like this, I think it should be done, and precisely because it does affect the onstage experience of the paying guests. I'm not sure why you think people don't pay attention to views of the park from the outside...in my experience, that's simply not true. And one thing about people inside the park is that you can be sure that at some point, they were outside the park, and at some point, they will be outside the park again. (Barring the small possibility of in-park births and deaths... ) So this sort of thing certainly does impact the experience of paying guests, if in a minor way that can be hard to justify investing in.

    Regarding Cars Land specifically, though, it certainly looks like they're doing something with the tallest peaks, wrapping the rockwork all the way around or something. I'll be most pleased if that turns out to be the case.


  11. #8171

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Technically, there is no reason to theme what cannot be seen from inside the park. HOWEVER, I believe that whatever is normally viewed by parks guests SHOULD be themed. The difference here is, that guests, before and after entering the resort, do drive along the side streets to get to the resort.

    Personally, I prefer show buildings to be disguised instead of blatantly themed, it makes the inside park more magical. If Indy's show building was themed to a giant temple you could see from the tram, it would hurt the notion that we have ventured deep into the jungle and into this endless temple. Carsland doesn't need to look like mountain peaks if they can disguise the building to the outside world.
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  12. #8172

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    ^While I'm not saying that people don't notice it or don't think about it... I am saying that it simply isn't a big deal for them. They are able to disassociate it in their minds. If it was a huge deal then people would stop riding EE, or Indy, iasw, etc. Obviously they see it, and it's reasonable to assume that they know exactly which rides they are... but it obviously isn't a big deal for them. This means one of two things... 1) They simply don't care, 2) if they do care, whilst in the park and on the rides they simply ignore it/forget about it.

    That seems to be a difference between your average park guest and your MiceChat guest. We invest so much time and thought and energy into debate of these sorts of things that it becomes harder for us to disassociate with them when we are in the parks. We get threads on here fairly often about "does seeing backstage ruin the magic." Most people not on MC most likely see backstage and go "oh cool." And its not a big deal. They see a ride with all the lights on exposing everything and it still doesn't seem to "ruin" the ride for them. I can only conclude 1 thing from this... these backstage views or flat walls don't really affect your average park guest because they don't invest so much into debate and discussion about them. We on MiceChat do and it definitely does seem to affect us. We have people who get seriously sad whenever any backstage secret is revealed (not mocking, everyone is entitled to their own feelings and reactions), or actually really upset over lack of themeing in a 360 degree fashion. To each their own, but these extremes seem to be limited to MC, not the average park population. Of course, there are always elements of either population in the other... so I'm not saying it never occurs amongst average guests... just that it is rare.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  13. #8173

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    On the one hand, yes, this is one of those things that ought to be rather low on the list of priorities. But on the other hand, when there's a chance to fund something like this, I think it should be done, and precisely because it does affect the onstage experience of the paying guests. I'm not sure why you think people don't pay attention to views of the park from the outside...in my experience, that's simply not true. And one thing about people inside the park is that you can be sure that at some point, they were outside the park, and at some point, they will be outside the park again.
    I gotta agree with Data. Whether Disney wishes it or not, what's visible from the outside is a virtual billboard, making a statement to everyone who drives by -- including current and potential customers. And the raw visuals speak much louder than words. Imagine if the Matterhorn had been built near the berm and only needed to be half-finished to cover the view from inside the Park.
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  14. #8174

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    I gotta agree with Data. Whether Disney wishes it or not, what's visible from the outside is a virtual billboard, advertising what's inside to everyone who drives by -- including current and potential customers.
    Part of the reason for the really tall trees all around the park is to heighten anticipation. You don't want whats inside to be seen from the outside. The parks were designed by animators with movie experience and its evident in their design. You walk up and even from the park entrance you can't see much. You go through the train tunnels and get a little bit more revealed, you see the buildings of main street, but still no the street itself... it's only after walking in a bit that you get the grand reveal of Main Street with the castle at its far end. It is a cinematic technique, the reveal. You don't want it to be seen from the outside... you want it contained. The berm isn't just to keep the outside world out... it's to keep the Disneyland in.

    Professortango mentioned this... disguise the outside parts, but don't theme them. He's right... having the Indy building themed to a temple would ruin the magic of being in the parks... it would destroy the feeling that you have journeyed to a jungle when you are obviously still in Anaheim.

    Seeing these tall rock mountains from Harbor or Katella would ruin the illusion that you have travelled somewhere else as you are clearly still in Anaheim.
    Last edited by mycroft16; 12-19-2010 at 07:27 PM.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  15. #8175

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker X

    Blending in show buildings like indy to sourounding areas Im all for. But like mycroft16 said you dont want to spoil the surprise.
    Most of the time people are like, "wow look at that huge building, I wonder what that is." and usually they forget what ride or attraction that building is for.
    I just believe ther is no money in it. It doesnt make the park profit to theme the side of the cars land rockwork that wont be seen from inside the park. Even if my potential customers are there ouside it doesnt matter. A guest won't change their mind about going inside the park if they see rockwork or not on harbor. They want to go because they want to enjoy their time inside the park and enjoy what there is to offer.
    I have to agree that us here on these boards are the only ones that will nick pick something like this. I dont believe a person from the other side of the country or the world will even think about it.
    Disney knows what they are doing. If they didnt then they wouldnt be as succsesfull as they are today.


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