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  1. #2071

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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    [QUOTE=Hot Sauce 1;1056877283]I have decided to wait and save my money for a Canon 5D Mark III. QUOTE]

    I got my 5D Mark II about 6 months ago, and I am loving it. At the time of my purchase, I was deciding between the Mark II & the Mark III. I decided to got Mark II because the cost savings is significant. Honestly, the only real difference that I can see that "might" be worth the cost in crease is the 61 point AF. However, since I manually focus most of the time, that wasn't that much of a plus for me.

    I just recently saw the USA Mark II model on Adorama.com for $1899 vs. $3299 for the Mark III. That is a no brainer for me. However, it is always nice to have the latest and greatest. Either way, you can't go wrong with either camera. Both are fantastic.

  2. #2072

    • Tom Bricker
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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Sauce 1 View Post
    I've been very hesitant to switch to full frame as well. Not only does the camera cost alot, none of my current lenses will work on a full frame Canon. This is why I thought I might give Nikon a try. If I have to start fresh, I can choose whatever I want.

    Well, I spent 2 days with the Nikon D600 at Disneyland. I rented it along with a 14-24 F/2.8 lens and a 24-105 lens from Borrowlenses.com. They were really nice and helpful and the camera got to me on the day that it was supposed to with everything that I asked for. The cost to rent it for the 3 days was just under $300.00. I figured this was a good investment to make before running out and spending a ton of money on a camera, just in case I didn't like it.

    It was a very good thing that I did rent it first because I did NOT like it.
    The functionality of the buttons seemed very unintuitive and difficult. Granted, I'm not used to it so it will be difficult at first but the more I played with it, the more I thought it was not user friendly. One big design flaw that I had a problem with was the On/Off switch is around the shutter button and right below that is the control dial. Every time I tried to change aperture on the control dial and then take a photo, I turned off the camera. This happened at least 30 times over 2 days.

    The Auto Focus system did not work all the time and when it did, it didn't focus on what I wanted to and would not stay there. (this might have been a problem with this camera and not all of the Nikon D600's) For example, on Canon cameras, if you are shooting a 3 exposure bracket and hold the shutter button down for all 3 exposures, the focus will stay the same for each shot. If you let go and press it again, it will change. On the Nikon, the focus changed for each exposure even when holding it down for all 3. Some of the images don't line up because of this. I can line them up manually in Photoshop but I shouldn't have to.

    I will say that the Auto White Balance on the Nikon was FAR superior to my Canon 7D. In lots of different conditions, it was very close if not spot on, whereas my 7D isn't even close.

    I ended up going to Manual focus for half of my shooting and the images I shot with it are very sharp and clean. (I'm told I will get images like that with any full frame camera, especially with a good lens like I was using)

    Truth be told, I am sad that I didn't like the camera. I really did want to and wanted to buy one. For landscape style photography, Nikon is better than Canon. However, I have decided to wait and save my money for a Canon 5D Mark III. I'm not hearing very good things about the new Canon 6D full frame camera, so I won't be going that route.

    My small advice is to rent the ones you are interested in and make absolutely sure you like it before you buy it. It is money well spent.
    Sorry to hear that you didn't like the camera.

    I think anyone considering a change between any systems is going to be in for a bit of shock at first. Last time I picked up a Canon DSLR, it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to take a photo, and I quickly became frustrated because my actions (that have become hard-coded into me after a few years of using a Nikon...I never think about/look at the dials, I just instinctively press them) didn't achieve the results that I was used to.

    My point with this is that I wouldn't be so quick to label the Nikon controls "unintuitive and difficult" or having "design flaws." You are not used to the camera, just as I am not used to Canon, Sony, Pentax, etc., so you had difficulty due to familiarity. That happens, and is probably a justifiable reason to not switch. It's another reason why a lot of photographers recommend purchasing the camera that "feels best in your hands" above all else.

    For what it's worth, I've never had any of the issues you described, especially the on/off switch bit. That has never happened to me. Not once. If that were truly a design flaw, don't you think Nikonians the world over would be complaining about it?

    Likewise with the autofocus--I've had issues with it hunting (depending on the lens), but that is true of every camera. The issue you're describing is atypical. I'd chalk it up to being an issue with the copy of the 14-24mm you had. The first 24-70mm I bought had some wear on its tires, and did the exact same thing. I went to a local shop and tested a brand new 24-70, and it grabbed and held focus instantaneously. I suspect rental gear is more suspectible to this, because people don't take care of it. But borrowlenses should be checking for that...

    As for the white balance thing, eh, I wouldn't switch to Nikon over that. White balance is for post processing, so who cares if the camera gets it right?

    I'm sure you'll love the 5dmkIII, which looks like a great camera--can't wait to see your shots with that!

    Anyway, just thought I'd step in and offer an 'opposing' perspective. A lot of people read your advice here, and I wouldn't want them to never consider Nikon because of issues you had that (I believe) are due to your preferences and a damaged lens. I mean, I know Nikon users are dumb, but don't you think there would be far fewer of us if the things you describe are widespread? I may be inept, but the D600 has managed to produce some pretty pictures for me despite my ineptitude!

  3. #2073

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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    I see both sides and agree with both.

    I shoot with Canon, When I first bought my camera it was a Canon and a Nikon sitting side by side on a shelf. I picked both up and very quickly put the Nikon down because I didn't like how it felt in my had. I do agree with the on/off location as being slightly wierd.

    Recently I have had the opportunity to shoot with both my Canon and a Nikon D3 side by side. I noticed the same thing with the autofocus that HotSauce mentioned. Depending on the lens the D3 had a really bad case of Shiny Object Syndrome.... Especially if you were trying to shoot a static landscape the smallest movement would throw the camera into fits. Depending on which lens was on the camera it would either do this more or less frequently. I was assuming it was from the large AF sensor array and without narrowing down which points I was using it was just having the issue.

    Being a Canon user I am very familiar with the menu systems and can get to what I need fairly fast. I was having trouble with the nikon only because I haven't had the time behind the camera. I would assume that with time that would change.

    As for picture quality... strange as it seems I just like the images that come out of my Canon. I know that most of that is in the settings but my canon just seems to have the images pop... Sharpness, hands down goes to the Nikon.

    It's been fun shooting with both cameras. Really makes me want to get a full frame body really soon. I am saving up to either get the 5D Mark III a 1D Mark III, Until then I can only dream.

  4. #2074

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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by WDWFigment View Post
    Sorry to hear that you didn't like the camera.

    I think anyone considering a change between any systems is going to be in for a bit of shock at first. Last time I picked up a Canon DSLR, it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to take a photo, and I quickly became frustrated because my actions (that have become hard-coded into me after a few years of using a Nikon...I never think about/look at the dials, I just instinctively press them) didn't achieve the results that I was used to.

    My point with this is that I wouldn't be so quick to label the Nikon controls "unintuitive and difficult" or having "design flaws." You are not used to the camera, just as I am not used to Canon, Sony, Pentax, etc., so you had difficulty due to familiarity. That happens, and is probably a justifiable reason to not switch. It's another reason why a lot of photographers recommend purchasing the camera that "feels best in your hands" above all else.

    For what it's worth, I've never had any of the issues you described, especially the on/off switch bit. That has never happened to me. Not once. If that were truly a design flaw, don't you think Nikonians the world over would be complaining about it?

    Likewise with the autofocus--I've had issues with it hunting (depending on the lens), but that is true of every camera. The issue you're describing is atypical. I'd chalk it up to being an issue with the copy of the 14-24mm you had. The first 24-70mm I bought had some wear on its tires, and did the exact same thing. I went to a local shop and tested a brand new 24-70, and it grabbed and held focus instantaneously. I suspect rental gear is more suspectible to this, because people don't take care of it. But borrowlenses should be checking for that...

    As for the white balance thing, eh, I wouldn't switch to Nikon over that. White balance is for post processing, so who cares if the camera gets it right?

    I'm sure you'll love the 5dmkIII, which looks like a great camera--can't wait to see your shots with that!

    Anyway, just thought I'd step in and offer an 'opposing' perspective. A lot of people read your advice here, and I wouldn't want them to never consider Nikon because of issues you had that (I believe) are due to your preferences and a damaged lens. I mean, I know Nikon users are dumb, but don't you think there would be far fewer of us if the things you describe are widespread? I may be inept, but the D600 has managed to produce some pretty pictures for me despite my ineptitude!
    Definitely no question as to my unfamiliarity with the camera being a huge part of my problems. I only had about 2 hours to go through the manual and figure out what little I could about working the camera. They only functions I had time to learn were how to change the aperture, ISO, Metering mode, exposure compensation and bracketing. I was bummed that I could not find out how to set up the bracketing to take more than the standard 3 exposures.

    I'm sure if I spent more time with the camera I wouldn't have the problem with turning it off again and again. I also agree that White Balance isn't anything to make a purchase decision over. I just wanted to point out that in that category, Nikon defintely bests Canon.

    I did notice that the auto focus was much better on the 24-120 lens than it was on the 14-24. I was just surprised that many times it wouldn't work at all. I had to keep checking to make sure it was on because it wouldn't do a thing. (only with the 14-24 lens though) A few times I had to take the lens off and put it on again for it to start working. I did drop the lens, (oopsie) so that might have had something to do with it but it did work sporadically before that.
    Did your 14-24 have any issues with sticking when you zoomed in or out?
    At the 18-20 area, the lens was a lot harder to turn.

    Borrowlenses posted an article yesterday that half of the D600's they have are having a problem with the aperture not closing down properly and people getting over exposed photos by approximately 2 stops. They had a photo of two cameras side by side both at F/8 and you could see one of them was near F/4 instead of F/8. I'm glad you aren't having that issue with yours.

    Like I said, I am truly bummed that I didn't like the camera. I was really excited about it and was looking forward to owning one. Not that the camera makes all the difference but your photos that you've been taking with it are nothing short of phenomenal. But then again, they were before you had the new camera. I was hoping that if I had one, I might get lucky once in a blue moon and get a shot as good as some of yours.
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  5. #2075

    • Elk Grove Chris
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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Mike,

    Quick technical question: how do you reverse the center focal point back to the factory settings on a 40D?

    I set it to center point way back to get better results on the dark rides, but I cannot for the life of me get it back to all 9 focal points, thanks.
    They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night. ~Edgar Allan Poe

  6. #2076

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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by chris001 View Post
    Mike,

    Quick technical question: how do you reverse the center focal point back to the factory settings on a 40D?

    I set it to center point way back to get better results on the dark rides, but I cannot for the life of me get it back to all 9 focal points, thanks.
    On the back of your camera in the upper right side you have two buttons. Below the one is a little blue cross hatch. If you press down on this and turn the select dial on the top side right behind the shutter button you should be able to select single AF points or go back to all points

    Hope that helps

  7. #2077

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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Sorry to hear the full frame didn't work well for you. I do agree with your advice to rent gear before you buy it.

    Yeah, the on/off switch on the Nikon is strange, but it's never gotten in my way. I have to look at it to figure out which way is on, but that's ok. There's a lot of customizing that you can do with the buttons, which I'm guessing the 600 also has, and which can go a long way to helping it be more intuitive. My husband heavily modifies where the buttons on his go, and it takes me a bit to figure it out if I use his camera (both ours are Nikons).

    Thanks for the review of the 600! I hope you find a camera that you like.
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  8. #2078

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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by alphabassetgrrl View Post
    Sorry to hear the full frame didn't work well for you. I do agree with your advice to rent gear before you buy it.

    Yeah, the on/off switch on the Nikon is strange, but it's never gotten in my way. I have to look at it to figure out which way is on, but that's ok. There's a lot of customizing that you can do with the buttons, which I'm guessing the 600 also has, and which can go a long way to helping it be more intuitive. My husband heavily modifies where the buttons on his go, and it takes me a bit to figure it out if I use his camera (both ours are Nikons).

    Thanks for the review of the 600! I hope you find a camera that you like.
    I wish I had time to really go through the manual and customize the camera. That would have helped me a great deal. I'm just getting into the processing of the photos that I took and I do have to say, the Dynamic Range of that camera is really amazing. I'm creating some HDR quality photos from a single image, which I could never have done with my camera.

    I remember when Tom first got his D600, he said that the dynamic range was so good, he was through shooting brackets. I can totally see why he said that.
    Here is an example;
    This is a single image that for some reason was really underexposed and the sconces near the door were blown out. In the new RAW editor in CS6, I increased the Exposure over 2 full stops, lightened the shadows 100%, lowered the highlights 100%, increased the blacks and contrast along with a few other adjustments, then a little bit of Nik Color Efx and it looks as good as any of my HDR images in a lot less time.
    Name:  8253230999_10f7236d85_d.jpg
Views: 295
Size:  172.3 KB

    Sorry it wouldn't let me make it bigger.
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  9. #2079

    • Elk Grove Chris
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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by timbre View Post
    On the back of your camera in the upper right side you have two buttons. Below the one is a little blue cross hatch. If you press down on this and turn the select dial on the top side right behind the shutter button you should be able to select single AF points or go back to all points

    Hope that helps
    Thanks Timbre!
    They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night. ~Edgar Allan Poe

  10. #2080

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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Nice! That would be handy; I rarely remember to shoot brackets, even in situations where I probably should.
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  11. #2081

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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Sauce 1 View Post
    I wish I had time to really go through the manual and customize the camera. That would have helped me a great deal. I'm just getting into the processing of the photos that I took and I do have to say, the Dynamic Range of that camera is really amazing. I'm creating some HDR quality photos from a single image, which I could never have done with my camera.

    I remember when Tom first got his D600, he said that the dynamic range was so good, he was through shooting brackets. I can totally see why he said that.
    I wonder how the dynamic range on one of the canon full sensors would be in comparison?

  12. #2082

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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Sauce 1 View Post
    I wish I had time to really go through the manual and customize the camera. That would have helped me a great deal. I'm just getting into the processing of the photos that I took and I do have to say, the Dynamic Range of that camera is really amazing. I'm creating some HDR quality photos from a single image, which I could never have done with my camera.

    I remember when Tom first got his D600, he said that the dynamic range was so good, he was through shooting brackets. I can totally see why he said that.
    Here is an example;
    This is a single image that for some reason was really underexposed and the sconces near the door were blown out. In the new RAW editor in CS6, I increased the Exposure over 2 full stops, lightened the shadows 100%, lowered the highlights 100%, increased the blacks and contrast along with a few other adjustments, then a little bit of Nik Color Efx and it looks as good as any of my HDR images in a lot less time.
    Name:  8253230999_10f7236d85_d.jpg
Views: 295
Size:  172.3 KB

    Sorry it wouldn't let me make it bigger.
    That is impressive. I have been shooting 9 shot HDR's using my promote control, and this shot if right there. Like you say, "in way less time."

  13. #2083

    • Tom Bricker
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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Sauce 1 View Post
    Definitely no question as to my unfamiliarity with the camera being a huge part of my problems. I only had about 2 hours to go through the manual and figure out what little I could about working the camera. They only functions I had time to learn were how to change the aperture, ISO, Metering mode, exposure compensation and bracketing. I was bummed that I could not find out how to set up the bracketing to take more than the standard 3 exposures.

    I'm sure if I spent more time with the camera I wouldn't have the problem with turning it off again and again. I also agree that White Balance isn't anything to make a purchase decision over. I just wanted to point out that in that category, Nikon defintely bests Canon.

    I did notice that the auto focus was much better on the 24-120 lens than it was on the 14-24. I was just surprised that many times it wouldn't work at all. I had to keep checking to make sure it was on because it wouldn't do a thing. (only with the 14-24 lens though) A few times I had to take the lens off and put it on again for it to start working. I did drop the lens, (oopsie) so that might have had something to do with it but it did work sporadically before that.
    Did your 14-24 have any issues with sticking when you zoomed in or out?
    At the 18-20 area, the lens was a lot harder to turn.

    Borrowlenses posted an article yesterday that half of the D600's they have are having a problem with the aperture not closing down properly and people getting over exposed photos by approximately 2 stops. They had a photo of two cameras side by side both at F/8 and you could see one of them was near F/4 instead of F/8. I'm glad you aren't having that issue with yours.

    Like I said, I am truly bummed that I didn't like the camera. I was really excited about it and was looking forward to owning one. Not that the camera makes all the difference but your photos that you've been taking with it are nothing short of phenomenal. But then again, they were before you had the new camera. I was hoping that if I had one, I might get lucky once in a blue moon and get a shot as good as some of yours.
    I've never read the manual, so you have 2 hours' advantage on me!

    3-exposure bracketing is the max. Not sure in what situations you'd possibly ever need more. 9-exposures just for the sake of saying you used 9-exposures?! In any case, when I do bracket now (mostly just during the day when I'm shooting into the sun and too lazy to guess and check), three is plenty. At night I'm shooting with a remote in bulb mode, so the 3-exposure thing doesn't much matter.

    As for autofocus, the AF on the 14-24 lens should be better than the 24-120. The zoom ring on the 14-24 should be smooth. I'm convinced you had a damaged copy of that lens.

    It sounds like just about every D600 right now has one problem or another! This is REALLY irritating. If you do for some reason decide to go with this camera, I'd give it a few months.

    Great first few shots with the camera. I still fully expect you to end up with a D600 or D800, even after your negative initial review. Just edit some more photos...

  14. #2084

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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by WDWFigment View Post
    I've never read the manual, so you have 2 hours' advantage on me!

    3-exposure bracketing is the max. Not sure in what situations you'd possibly ever need more. 9-exposures just for the sake of saying you used 9-exposures?! In any case, when I do bracket now (mostly just during the day when I'm shooting into the sun and too lazy to guess and check), three is plenty. At night I'm shooting with a remote in bulb mode, so the 3-exposure thing doesn't much matter.

    As for autofocus, the AF on the 14-24 lens should be better than the 24-120. The zoom ring on the 14-24 should be smooth. I'm convinced you had a damaged copy of that lens.

    It sounds like just about every D600 right now has one problem or another! This is REALLY irritating. If you do for some reason decide to go with this camera, I'd give it a few months.

    Great first few shots with the camera. I still fully expect you to end up with a D600 or D800, even after your negative initial review. Just edit some more photos...
    First off, Tom, you have been an inpiration to me. I have taken many advice you have had to offer--9 stop ND filterts, etc. However, I must disagree with you about 3 shot vs 9 shot bracketed exposures. Yes, most shots do not require more than a 6 stop dynamic range; however, my opinion is--the more information you can get the better. I think it just gives you more options.

    With that being said, I think it takes more talent and is more impressive capturing the exposures with a single shot the way you and Mike have been doing lately. It makes one look at the finset detail when shooting. Of coarse, all one has is the shot taken in the field. After that, much can be manipulated, but the original shot has to good.

  15. #2085

    • Tom Bricker
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    Re: The Disneyland Photo of the Day...

    Quote Originally Posted by llamaboy View Post
    First off, Tom, you have been an inpiration to me. I have taken many advice you have had to offer--9 stop ND filterts, etc. However, I must disagree with you about 3 shot vs 9 shot bracketed exposures. Yes, most shots do not require more than a 6 stop dynamic range; however, my opinion is--the more information you can get the better. I think it just gives you more options.

    With that being said, I think it takes more talent and is more impressive capturing the exposures with a single shot the way you and Mike have been doing lately. It makes one look at the finset detail when shooting. Of coarse, all one has is the shot taken in the field. After that, much can be manipulated, but the original shot has to good.
    There's no doubt about this, but for me, when photographing Disney, two things come into play: 1) the law of diminishing returns, and 2) time.

    In most situations, a 3-exposure (or less) set and a 9-exposure set, processed in the same manner, are going to look virtually indistinguishable to the naked eye at reasonable sizes. They may even look indistinguishable to pixel peepers depending upon how much dynamic range is in the scene that was shot. In other words, your return for that extra work is insignificant, at best.

    Time concerns both the time it takes to capture the photos and the time it takes to process the photos. More exposures means more shooting time, and if these are night shots, that time really adds up. You may only have an hour or so to take photos each night, and doing 9-exposure brackets effectively cuts the number of unique photos you can take in half. Personally, I'd rather be able to process 10 "98% quality" images than 5 "100% quality" images. More frames in the bracket also means more time spent processing. I hate sitting in front of a computer screen processing photos, so whenever I can, I stick to a single image. If that drops my quality down to 90 or 95%, oh well. I'd rather have a 90% photo that took me 2 minutes to photograph and 2 minutes to post process than a 100% photo that took me 4 minutes to photograph and 30-90 minutes to post process.

    I really don't think you're wrong (there's not necessarily a right/wrong/one-size-fits-all answer), I'm just explaining my approach. I'm lazy and approach photography from somewhat of a cost/benefit perspective.


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