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  1. #31

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    I was driving through a residential area a few minutes ago, and I pulled up to a stoplight. My window was open and I heard the sound of rushing water. I instantly turned my head to look, and I saw a nice little artificial waterfall in front of an apartment building or something. It sent an instant positive signal to my brain, even though it was nothing more than a little curtain of water shimmering down a concrete surface. Got me thinking about how the brain has got to be wired to be attracted to flowing water - I mean, to our ancestors, that sight meant there was something to drink, something to keep them alive. Obviously, when you walk past an attraction or area with a lot of water, you're not thinking, Oh good...now I won't die of dehydration in Disneyland! It just looks nice to you. But I think it has to be an essential part of what makes us tick.

    And of course, scientists think green was the first color we developed the ability to see...foliage was all we ate back then...


  2. #32

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    I will 75% agree. Trees and landscaping in general are a huge fault of DCA. The shade they add keeps the park cool and serves as visual breaks between areas. They can also reinforce theme with a natural look that lends reality and credence to an area.

    I will say water is needed, but not necessarily attractions. Rivers, streams, falls, etc are needed in DCA. The motion and sound and just beauty of water help so very much.

    I think a 3rd element is secluded areas. Disneyland is full of nooks and crannies that are sort of hidden. They feel special. DCA is wide open.

    On a similar theme, the pathways at DCA are too wide. Disneyland often breaks pathways up with planters and such. It makes the paths not feel like super highways. It slows you down and lets you walk through an area appreciating it rather than just cruising through to get to your destination.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  3. #33

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    Whenever I walk into DCA, the majority of the crowd are pre-teens/teens
    This makes me feel like I'm walking into Knotts Berry Farm without the trash everywhere. Buena Vista Street should definitely shade the entrance to DCA with trees and the overall expansion will hopefully attract a variety of ages like Disneyland does




  4. #34

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    I was driving through a residential area a few minutes ago, and I pulled up to a stoplight. My window was open and I heard the sound of rushing water. I instantly turned my head to look, and I saw a nice little artificial waterfall in front of an apartment building or something. It sent an instant positive signal to my brain, even though it was nothing more than a little curtain of water shimmering down a concrete surface. Got me thinking about how the brain has got to be wired to be attracted to flowing water - I mean, to our ancestors, that sight meant there was something to drink, something to keep them alive. Obviously, when you walk past an attraction or area with a lot of water, you're not thinking, Oh good...now I won't die of dehydration in Disneyland! It just looks nice to you. But I think it has to be an essential part of what makes us tick.

    And of course, scientists think green was the first color we developed the ability to see...foliage was all we ate back then...
    Excellent post! One of the big differences between Disneyland and DCA is not only the rides based on water, but the many small ways Disneyland uses water to the effect that Datameister so well describes. The little waterfalls of the Snow White grotto, and at the exit of the former Country Bear Play house. The fact that from the Castle moat to the Rivers of America, in Disneyland you're never far from the sight and sound of water.

    The pleasing feeling Datameister describes was even more present in the Swiss Family Treehouse waterwheel, the waterfall of Fantasyland's Skull Rock, the many miniature waterfalls in the restaurant seating area behind the Fantasyland Pirate Ship, the old mill on Tom Sawyer Island, the fabulous waterfall in the Tahitian Terrace restaurant, and of course Cascade Peak.

    After more than four decades of being surrounded by the sight and sound and spirit of water in Disneyland, the new DCA felt to me like a world of concrete and metal -- sunbaked, harsh and uninviting.

    And still does.

    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 07-29-2010 at 11:47 AM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
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  5. #35

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    I think a 3rd element is secluded areas. Disneyland is full of nooks and crannies that are sort of hidden. They feel special. DCA is wide open.

    On a similar theme, the pathways at DCA are too wide. Disneyland often breaks pathways up with planters and such. It makes the paths not feel like super highways. It slows you down and lets you walk through an area appreciating it rather than just cruising through to get to your destination.
    i actually feel like this is a fault with Disneyland.. but only on crowded days. on crowded days, those nooks and crannies are a nightmare. take the entire Adventureland area. that thing is the epitome of a badly designed self crowd controlling pathway. of course, it's understood that Walt probably didn't expect the crowds that are being cattled through there today, but the point is still there.

    ..and it's not just Adventureland that's the problem. NoS, Main Street, the Tomorrowland entrance, etc. it's a huge claustrophobic mess.

    at DCA, i feel like i can actually breathe.

    of course, many people like the fact that it's smaller, more crowded, and has a cozier home-feel.. but i personally hate that about Disneyland. even if it wasn't crowded, i still prefer wide open areas.
    -plagued

  6. #36

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    The lack of landscaping and water features obviously do have a huge impact. And I don't count Paradise Bay during the day time...it's not interesting, it just sits there.

    In terms of dramatic impact, I'd have to say Grizzly River absolutely beats every other ride in the park, visually (not a comment on attraction itself). Tower of Terror comes close with the themed exterior, but Screamin is just a roller coaster (seeing a roller coaster exterior is a dime a dozen) and Soaring is just a large building you'd see at any air base. You can see those all the time, not dynamic or thrilling or interesting. Grizzly is lovely, dynamic, and the geysers and mist and motion of the rafts and the rock formation and the kind of "mining trail" behind it all add a ton of atmosphere. I'd even go so far as to say just the waterfalls on the other side, across from Bug's Land, are more dramatic than any other attraction exterior, narrowly edging out ToT at night.

    So yes, absolutely, more water features and foliage will be a good thing. I've no doubt Radiator Springs will be visually epic and detailed, but it's not exactly going to feature those two elements either...
    when the spooks have a midnight jamboree....

  7. #37

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    I agree a little with Mr Wiggins on DCA , "a world of concrete and metal -- sunbaked, harsh and uninviting." I make a point of hanging out under the trees on the little walkway by the waterfall behind GRR. I'm worried that Carsland looks like more hot concrete and pavement and very little water or landscaping.

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    That's a good point, plagued - although being in the middle of a very wide and open sort of horde isn't necessarily any better than being in the middle of one that's more narrow and windy. Either one becomes unpleasant when there's too many people in it, and Disneyland has the misfortune () of drawing in larger crowds. Of course, wider walkways have higher capacity, so the problem doesn't arise until there are more people there. But Disney currently seems interested in raising attendance to as consistently high a level as possible, particularly in the less crowded second gate. And although that's great for profits, success will mean that personal bubbles are going to need to deflate even in DCA.


  9. #39

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    The lack of landscaping and water features obviously do have a huge impact. And I don't count Paradise Bay during the day time...it's not interesting, it just sits there.
    i'm not entirely sure about my terminology and consistency with the Paradise area names (paradise pier, paradise park, paradise bay).. but if you're talking about the World of Color viewing area (what i call paradise park), i love the fact that it just sits there i can sit on a bench there for long times (on a not-hot day) taking in the atmosphere of the area.. it's extremely relaxing and somewhere i'd imagine i could take a book to read or even study and do work. as selfish as it sounds, i like it when i feel like the park is mine to myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    That's a good point, plagued - although being in the middle of a very wide and open sort of horde isn't necessarily any better than being in the middle of one that's more narrow and windy. Either one becomes unpleasant when there's too many people in it, and Disneyland has the misfortune () of drawing in larger crowds. Of course, wider walkways have higher capacity, so the problem doesn't arise until there are more people there. But Disney currently seems interested in raising attendance to as consistently high a level as possible, particularly in the less crowded second gate. And although that's great for profits, success will mean that personal bubbles are going to need to deflate even in DCA.
    understood.. and i agree that it's not really the cause of Disneylands landscaping, it's the crowds itself. it IS the more popular park so it naturally draws in more people.
    -plagued

  10. #40

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    There is a reason a lot of people call it Disney's CONCRETE Adventure. There are far too many roads/walkways with no imagination or foliage to them. You do feel like you are in a shopping mall.

    Bring on the trees!!!

  11. #41

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    Quote Originally Posted by plagued View Post
    take the entire Adventureland area. that thing is the epitome of a badly designed self crowd controlling pathway.

    ..and it's not just Adventureland that's the problem. NoS, Main Street, the Tomorrowland entrance, etc. it's a huge claustrophobic mess.
    Some of these are actually the fault of planners.

    Adventureland had the entrance to Tarzan's Treehouse moved when it became Tarzan's. Now it juts out into the path cutting of vital walk space. Not to mention the planter smack dab in the middle of an already crowded and narrow area. Couple this with the mass of strollers that get shoved there and it's a recipe for disaster.

    Tomorrowland used to have a much more open entrance until the plopped the Astro Orbiter there to fulfill the "weenie" roll after the PM was taken out. Instead it just bottlenecks the entrance to the land and fails as a weenie.

    NoS and Main Street work fine, unless it is a really crowded day in which case it is just the crowds.

    RoA and Frontierland as well as the area between Matterhorn and the old Motor Boat Lagoon break up walkways with planters and tiers so that even on a crowded day, you are separated from much of the crowd. And on non-crowded days it feels very pleasant as there is shade and/or greenery and it isn't just an expanse of concrete. It is visually appealing.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  12. #42

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    Quote Originally Posted by plagued View Post
    i'm not entirely sure about my terminology and consistency with the Paradise area names (paradise pier, paradise park, paradise bay).. but if you're talking about the World of Color viewing area (what i call paradise park), i love the fact that it just sits there i can sit on a bench there for long times (on a not-hot day) taking in the atmosphere of the area.. it's extremely relaxing and somewhere i'd imagine i could take a book to read or even study and do work. as selfish as it sounds, i like it when i feel like the park is mine to myself
    Nope, I mean the water itself, not the park/viewing area, where World of Color happens at night. In the day, it's not very interesting, to put it lightly. Just sits there. Of course, i don't expect it to do something 24/7 like a show, but having "waves" generated or little beach scenes or boats or something along the edges to create interest or motion would be nice...it's not at all dynamic or has any motion to it, like Grizzly Peak's waterfalls or ponds or geysers, or the Disneyland various water features.
    when the spooks have a midnight jamboree....

  13. #43

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    Quote Originally Posted by Imag1neer View Post
    Apples and oranges, DCA is charming but it has a different kind of charm. Disneyland is more uptight and structured,the shows etc are very much "you sit there and we wil entertain you here",whereas DCA has more guest involvement, ppl dancing in the streets etc...
    I see DCA cast members dancing in the street and having a blast with regular guests all the time,I just dont feel that same guest interaction at Disneyland. And when Disneyland tries to mimick DCAs success with it, it comes off "forced" like the Celebrate Street party. The vibe at DCA is more of a party vibe,and I love it.

    Disneyland does "magic" flawlessly, and DCA has a more laid back party vibe and it does it flawlessy, each park has a different kind of charm,I enjoy both equally.
    I actually have to agree on this very much. You really cannot compare Disneyland with DCA- they are different themed, and when you have a different theme you are going to have different landscaping.

    DCA has very limited places to fill in landscaping. For instance, in the area regarding where TLM: A'sA is, that part of the area could have palm trees or forest trees, since the ride is suppose to be set in an area located in NorCal.

    I can't speak for Radiator Springs. You are in a desert, and you are not going to be able to have trees or anything like that for the people. I mean, if you were out in the desert, is there REALLY anything for trees?

    But...Hollywoodland has Griffith Park, and if Disney could make room, maybe there could be a chance for some shading and maybe the area where the Drawn to the Magic show is could have a chance for some shaded area.

    So I'm going to have to say both yes and no about DCA having less charm due to a limited amount of water based attractions. This park was built a certain way, and you can't have an X amount of water rides just because Disney had them in another park.

  14. #44

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker View Post
    But...Hollywoodland has Griffith Park, and if Disney could make room, maybe there could be a chance for some shading and maybe the area where the Drawn to the Magic show is could have a chance for some shaded area.
    i would vouch for this.. not for myself.. but for the poor cast members that have to sing and dance in the sun! (yes i know there are many more shows where cm's dance in the sun)
    -plagued

  15. #45

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    Re: Is DCA Less Charming due to lack of Water based attractions and Lack of Landscapi

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Well, by the mid-60s, things were starting to fill in rather nicely, but yes, in the early days, Disneyland looked positively barren in Frontierland and Adventureland (and what would later become NOS) - areas that now feel perhaps the least like a theme park because they blend convincing architecture with real foliage and waterways so beautifully. That initial barrenness looks terrible in photos, but it made great things possible in the future.

    Whether or not DCA should have followed the same route is a matter of personal opinion, but I think it's pretty safe to say that DCA inarguably did not follow that route. Where Disneyland allowed open spaces and young plants on muddy river banks, DCA mostly allowed more buildings and concrete and paved walkways. The results were more polished than those areas of Disneyland initially were, I'm sure. Whether that was a good choice is, again, personal opinion.

    I must say, though, that I've been noticing the foliage growing in more in DCA. And it goes without saying that the area around Grizzly River Run has ample "natural" charm, of course. I'd argue that the trail that winds past the waterfalls and under the GRR lift has enough quiet, appealing, naturalistic immersiveness to rival Big Thunder Trail.
    Very well-stated, Data. I totally agree.

    As far as Big Thunder Trail, I love it simply because of all the old stuff you get to see along the way. However, it makes a bit less sense as you normally don't find buttes and rock arches surrounded by a bunch of trees.

    I think the reason DCA seems to have less foliage and more open areas is because Disney took the shortcomings of DL when it comes to crowds and did it right with DCA. Imagine if WOC was on the Rivers of America how difficult it would be to move around. DCA's plentiful, wide walkways provide ample traffic flow for large amounts of people. Perhaps they're not as pretty or natural looking as DL's, but it's a tradeoff that provides meaningful function. I'd also venture to guess that vegetation and landscaping is something being worked on. They're currently adjusting the transition between the HPB and A Bug's Land, and they recently added some trees behind Paradise Park. Once the reworking of the park is complete I'm confident the park as a whole will look much different than it originally did.

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