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  1. #151

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    Re: It'$ That Time of Year(Merged-Price Increases)

    Do a little thinking? My dear sleepyjeff, why would I do such a thing? But while I'm trying to oblige and do a little thinking, might I suggest you do a little reading? I did, after all, say:

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    The pricing of annual passes, the new additions, Disney's marketing, and the ever-growing population have made visiting Disneyland more possible and attractive, more frequently, for larger amounts of people.
    It's no secret that Disney is successfully encouraging visitors to return frequently. But your refutation of my refutation is, in fact, bunkier than my refutation, because you're still essentially saying that you want other people to leave the park so you can enjoy it more. Whether they've been twelve times this year or twice in their lives, you're still suggesting that some people should leave so that others can have a good time. And my question thus still stands: do you provide a better experience for fewer people (at a time), or a pretty good experience for a lot of people (at a time)? I don't have the answers here; just throwing in my 2 cents.


  2. #152

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    Re: It'$ That Time of Year(Merged-Price Increases)

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Do a little thinking? My dear sleepyjeff, why would I do such a thing? But while I'm trying to oblige and do a little thinking, might I suggest you do a little reading? I did, after all, say:



    It's no secret that Disney is successfully encouraging visitors to return frequently. But your refutation of my refutation is, in fact, bunkier than my refutation, because you're still essentially saying that you want other people to leave the park so you can enjoy it more. Whether they've been twelve times this year or twice in their lives, you're still suggesting that some people should leave so that others can have a good time. And my question thus still stands: do you provide a better experience for fewer people (at a time), or a pretty good experience for a lot of people (at a time)? I don't have the answers here; just throwing in my 2 cents.
    I suppose that's fair enough.

    Don't have an answer for you except to say I think by raising the one day prices to such a staggering amount you are, in effect, limiting the park to only those who can afford to visit a lot.
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  3. #153

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    Re: It'$ That Time of Year(Merged-Price Increases)

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Do a little thinking? My dear sleepyjeff, why would I do such a thing? But while I'm trying to oblige and do a little thinking, might I suggest you do a little reading? I did, after all, say:



    It's no secret that Disney is successfully encouraging visitors to return frequently. But your refutation of my refutation is, in fact, bunkier than my refutation, because you're still essentially saying that you want other people to leave the park so you can enjoy it more. Whether they've been twelve times this year or twice in their lives, you're still suggesting that some people should leave so that others can have a good time. And my question thus still stands: do you provide a better experience for fewer people (at a time), or a pretty good experience for a lot of people (at a time)? I don't have the answers here; just throwing in my 2 cents.
    The problem is the experience just isn't that great or worth it anymore for many of us die hard Disney nuts because of "Disneys pack the park idea and we will make up our losses". At least for me that is. I was planing a trip to WDW this October but not anymore. Now I'm still a big Disney fan, but I'm just waiting and not spending my money on Disney (anything Disney) until this madness at the parks with the over crowding improves. So so long DL and WDW, I'm thinking Hawaii looks pretty good this Fall.

  4. #154

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    Re: It'$ That Time of Year(Merged-Price Increases)

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Davo View Post
    The problem is the experience just isn't that great or worth it anymore for many of us die hard Disney nuts because of "Disneys pack the park idea and we will make up our losses". At least for me that is.
    It may not be worth it for you (which is a perfectly valid opinion), but for better or for worse, record numbers of people still find trips to the resort to be worth it. Obviously, everyone would love to have part of the crowd leave...but no one wants to be in that part of the crowd that's leaving.

    Of course, it's possible that in time, the pendulum will swing the other way as word spreads that the DLR is impossibly crowded and not worth the effort. I have no idea if this will actually occur, and I suspect that any resulting decrease in attendance would quickly swing back in the other direction, but it's certainly a possible outcome. It's just that for the time being...enough people are clearly willing to brave the crowds in order to enjoy the product Disney is selling. Again, I'm not trying to make any judgment here on whether or not that should be the case...I'm just saying that it is the case.


  5. #155

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    Re: It'$ That Time of Year(Merged-Price Increases)

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    It may not be worth it for you (which is a perfectly valid opinion), but for better or for worse, record numbers of people still find trips to the resort to be worth it. Obviously, everyone would love to have part of the crowd leave...but no one wants to be in that part of the crowd that's leaving.

    In my opinion this way of thinking is flawed. Most of the new AP holders about 500,000 are relatively new, from about the last 2 years (the crowded years). The reason they have bought on to the AP's is because they realize it is a better deal. You pay your one day entrance fee and then $10, $20, $30 a month and you can come back anytime. Now they feel they have to get their moneys worth and why not. Now they have bought these AP's not really knowing the madness they are in for and now Disney has turned off there long time big spenders, the tourist and long time AP holder fan. Now when these new AP holder finally figure it out they won't be back.

    Now maybe it's only me but can you ever remember a time when Disney has really angered so many of there hard core fans?

  6. #156

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    Re: It'$ That Time of Year(Merged-Price Increases)

    I know Disney doesn't release numbers of APs, but it would be interesting to know how many people renewed this year without the free down payment from last year's "Get in Free on Your Birthday" promotion. Based on the continuing crowds, I think it's a high number.
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  7. #157

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    Re: It'$ That Time of Year(Merged-Price Increases)

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Davo View Post
    In my opinion this way of thinking is flawed. Most of the new AP holders about 500,000 are relatively new, from about the last 2 years (the crowded years). The reason they have bought on to the AP's is because they realize it is a better deal. You pay your one day entrance fee and then $10, $20, $30 a month and you can come back anytime. Now they feel they have to get their moneys worth and why not. Now they have bought these AP's not really knowing the madness they are in for and now Disney has turned off there long time big spenders, the tourist and long time AP holder fan. Now when these new AP holder finally figure it out they won't be back.

    I acknowledged the possibility that the pendulum will swing the other way if people realize that the crowds are very thick and decide it's not worth it. I was simply pointing out that for the time being, from Disney's perspective, attendance is continuing to rise in the AP and non-AP crowds, which makes it a profitable situation.


    Now maybe it's only me but can you ever remember a time when Disney has really angered so many of there hard core fans?
    Seems to me like the frustration has been going on since the 90s, really, but I don't know of any time before that when people were so annoyed. But again, from Disney's perspective, that's offset by the huge numbers of people who clearly find the whole thing to still be worth it, at least for now.


  8. #158

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    Re: It'$ That Time of Year(Merged-Price Increases)

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Davo View Post
    In my opinion this way of thinking is flawed. Most of the new AP holders about 500,000 are relatively new, from about the last 2 years (the crowded years). The reason they have bought on to the AP's is because they realize it is a better deal. You pay your one day entrance fee and then $10, $20, $30 a month and you can come back anytime. Now they feel they have to get their moneys worth and why not. Now they have bought these AP's not really knowing the madness they are in for and now Disney has turned off there long time big spenders, the tourist and long time AP holder fan. Now when these new AP holder finally figure it out they won't be back.

    Now maybe it's only me but can you ever remember a time when Disney has really angered so many of there hard core fans?
    This is why the AP Program is not the optimal business model for a premium product. Great model for a crappy product, for sure.

    Disney created this hard-core fan base, who are used to making that one-time painful payment in exchange for months of bliss. Can't easily close Pandora's Box, stuff the genie back in the bottle, etc. But, that is the only solution.
    I recommend allowing one more renewal for every AP'er, then getting back to the business of attracting guests with attractions, instead of simply an attractive price.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  9. #159

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    Re: It'$ That Time of Year(Merged-Price Increases)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    I know Disney doesn't release numbers of APs, but it would be interesting to know how many people renewed this year without the free down payment from last year's "Get in Free on Your Birthday" promotion. Based on the continuing crowds, I think it's a high number.
    If you are renewing an AP you don't need the down payment. They just make the monthly payments a little higher.

  10. #160

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    Re: It'$ That Time of Year(Merged-Price Increases)

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    I acknowledged the possibility that the pendulum will swing the other way if people realize that the crowds are very thick and decide it's not worth it. I was simply pointing out that for the time being, from Disney's perspective, attendance is continuing to rise in the AP and non-AP crowds, which makes it a profitable situation.

    Seems to me like the frustration has been going on since the 90s, really, but I don't know of any time before that when people were so annoyed. But again, from Disney's perspective, that's offset by the huge numbers of people who clearly find the whole thing to still be worth it, at least for now.
    Don't get me started about the 90's. I actually liked that time in the parks. My kids were we little ones and I felt that I could actually afford to get them souvenirs each trip.

    You are right for now obviously people think it is worth it but these people are not long time AP holders or yearly on site vacationers from out of state. But I think they know it's not worth it but they were almost hoodwinked, had the bait and switch pulled on them to make the AP purchase. Now if you have an AP why not go and get your moneys worth. I understand what Disney is doing, “keep the money flowing, flowing” (keep on swimming, swimming). This is the simple way to fix the problem of downed sales and its working, but I say it’s temporary and at a cost.

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