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  1. #31

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    I'm not sure why so many people are defending Disneyland on this. I used to work in a movie theater that had 4,000 or so people descending on it in waves about every 45 minutes. We were unionized, and we were given the mandate by our theater manager that the place HAD TO BE SPOTLESS. As soon as one rush was past, there was ABSOLUTELY NO hanging around; everyone not restocking or working with guests had to be cleaning, no matter what his or her "normal" job was. She wanted the place to look amazing, because she knew that people made snap judgments about quality based on cleanliness.

    Yes, people are pigs. There's no doubt about it. But Disneyland has INVITED them to the park, and they've spent no small amount of money to get in.

    It is absolutely true, and a crying shame, that so many AP holders treat the park as nothing special at all. But what about the family from Texas out for a special trip? What about the person who's never been to Disneyland before in their lives?

    Labor Day was NOT extraordinarily crowded. It was busy, but not crazy busy. I hate to say it, but I saw SO MANY cast members just standing around talking to each other, it was amazing. Indy was broken down, and four cast members were standing outside the ride, laughing with each other, paying NO attention to guests ... and right in front of them, without making a huge show of it, I picked up trash from the ground and put it in a bin. They watched me, I don't think they appreciated or understood the irony of a paying guest picking up trash while the employee stands around and does (literally) nothing.

    I have GREAT respect for Disney cast members; I think most of them are wonderful and fabulous. I think there are a lot of them who feel entitled, too, and throw that word back on the guest -- "oh, our AP holders feel so ENTITLED." Guess what? The paying customer/guest IS entitled to an excellent experience.

    The trash frustrates me to no end. It's ugly and its absolutely unnecessary. I understand that a cast member can't be assigned to each and every trash can in the parking lot, but it made for very bad show upon arrival, especially with parking attendants standing nearby to direct guests. One of them couldn't have picked up a walkie-talkie to say, "We've got overflowing trash cans here."

    But overfilled trash cans in the park, trash in queue areas, a Coke bottle in the river ... I find it hard to see how Disney can justify this "upkeep."

    And for those who say it's busy, that Disney can't have employees cleaning EVERYTHING ... here's a photo from Tokyo Disneyland, which is just a hair behind Disneyland Park in terms of annual attendance. Tokyo Disneyland is CRAZY busy most days of the year. Have you ever seen how it looks? I have some great photos, but can't figure out how to post them here.

    I went to TDL with a friend about a year ago and he said, "I can't go back to Disneyland now. It will make me sad."

    Maybe I'm just being unfair and comparing Disneyland with Tokyo Disneyland. But I really don't understand why Disneyland is, well, dirty.

    For the person who said they would walk barefoot there ... really? Look down next time.

    And for the few people who have "had my back" on this ... thank you. Those of us who went to Disneyland up through the late 1980s know that Disneyland used to be genuinely spotless. You wouldn't just be willing to walk barefoot, you would be willing to EAT off the ground. To me, it's not just that the cleanliness has declined ... it's that it's genuinely GROSS at times now. Not always, but often. (And don't get me STARTED on the men's bathrooms, which are beyond filthy.)

  2. #32

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    I wonder what the park would have looked like with today's littering habits and yesterday's cast members. This is sincere musing, not a sarcastic attempt at making a point. I really do wonder.

    I will say, though, that I've never seen the park as dirty as what you're describing, fortunately. I see bits and pieces of trash on the ground every time - usually merchandise packaging, cups, receipts, napkins, stuff like that - and I always pick it up unless it's a used napkin or something particularly unsanitary like that. There've also been times when I've spotted something but a custodial CM beat me to it. And I've never seen a trash can overflowing...ever. Which is pretty impressive, considering how much larger the Disneyland Resort is than a theater that seats 4000.

    That being said, I don't doubt that the park used to be a lot cleaner and could be a lot cleaner.


  3. #33

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    True enough.

    Then again, Disney management made the decision to pack the Park with bodies by aggressively marketing cheap Annual Passports; and cut back on the number of restaurants while increasing the number of trash-generating ODV sales carts; and cut back on the number of Custodial CMs.

    It's not just the guests.

    I was trying to think of something goofy to say on subject, lighten it up a little...but this is a serious matter, and this classic Wiggins line hits the nail on the head.
    "Let's get weird" -Abraham Lincoln

  4. #34

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    I cannot speak to how the park was on Labor Day weekend, but the weekend after, it appeared to be pretty clean to me. I don't recall any issues of this nature.

    "I DIG A.D.D."

  5. #35

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    ^^^ Good points, Data.

    To me, the trash issue is like an interactive system. Components include number of guests, attitude of guests, amount of trash-producing stuff brought in by guests, amount of trash-producing stuff sold in-Park, training of CMs, number of Custodial CMs, and priorities of management.

    Compared to Disneyland pre-90's, blaming the trash problem on "guests are pigs" leaves out the huge increase in trash-generating ODV carts. Blaming the trash generated by ODV leaves out the decline in value-for-the-price in food, which encourages guests to bring in their own. Blaming Custodial CMs leaves out the huge increase in number of guests and decline in number of Custodial CMs. Blaming guests' entitlement leaves out the incredible increase in entitlement 'tude at TDA. Blaming CMs leaves out the lowered CM training standards, which is a management responsibility. And so on, 'round and 'round the ol' churro wrapper.

    Bottom line (and the issue really is one of bottom line), Disneyland was, is, and will be as clean as Disneyland management wants to make it. Guest attitudes can help, but it's Disney's property, Disney's show, and ultimately, Disney's responsibility.

    Disney can choose to fund, hire and train the staff that is necessary to maintain Disneyland's quality standards to their pre-90's level in ALL areas of Park operations, regardless of the number or attitudes of their customers.

    Or, as they've chosen to do in the last 20 years, they can let the standards slip in order to maximize profits.

    And for that, no amount of customers picking up trash, or customers putting the blame on other customers, will help.

    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  6. #36

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment68 View Post
    We went to Disneyland on Labor Day. Arrived mid-afternoon and discovered, thanks to the lack of blockout dates (which is why we went, so I can't exactly complain!) that it was much more crowded than anticipated. That was fine, and the crowds were certainly manageable, but here's my question:

    Why is Disneyland almost constantly strewn with trash? In the parking garage, three trash cans we saw were overflowing. You literally had to place your garbage next to them, and they were disgusting.

    On the tram over, there was trash on the floor from the previous passengers.

    Two of the trash cans on Main Street were overflowing, despite cast members being relatively nearby.

    Tomorrowland looked like it as Litterland, I kid you not. The queue for Buzz Lightyear had trash all throughout the planters. There was popcorn and candy on the ground in the inside queue. Space Mountain looked like Hansel and Gretel had been in line, with trails of popcorn and napkins throughout.

    We went on the Jungle Cruise and, sadly, I even saw a Coke bottle floating in the river.

    It was kind of disgusting, and the idea that Disneyland is "squeaky clean" was finally completely shattered. (I've TRIED to maintain this view for years despite the evidence, but this time it was impossible.)

    I just don't get it. Disneyland can be overpriced, it can be overcrowded, it can have attractions down and maintenance going on ... that I can forgive. But does it actually have to be DIRTY now? Isn't Disneyland supposed to represent the idealized world? I'm a little saddened by what I saw. Yes, it was a busy day ... but is that really an excuse?
    This sounds like a Disneyland problem, all of which are caused by one thing. Yes, back before the one thing became the choice of a majority of guests (by count), everything at DL was a lot better.
    So, there is only one solution.

    Couple of corrections: Disneyland is NOT overpriced by the majority of guests (by count). (It's overpriced for everyone else, but they'll catch on soon enough.)

    Now, if you were actually to pay for what you EXPECT, it might cost a lot more, but probably not the current listed price.

    You, unfortunately, GOT what you paid for.
    Do note that I am not stating that you are the problem. You paid for something that the Disney people publicly offer. It's a great deal. Too great of a deal, and the product suffers because of it (and not you -- yes, I have to repeat myself).
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  7. #37

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    True enough.

    Then again, Disney management made the decision to pack the Park with bodies by aggressively marketing cheap Annual Passports; and cut back on the number of restaurants while increasing the number of trash-generating ODV sales carts; and cut back on the number of Custodial CMs.

    It's not just the guests.
    Ah, I see that you hit the crux of the issue 12 hours ago. Excellent. We need more on "our" side.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  8. #38

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    ^^^^Except for the lack of goats in your summation Mr. Wiggins, that pretty much says it all.
    Waiting for Godot Micechat.com

  9. #39

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    "Our" side??? This isn't a question of us versus them. It is a question of who and what we are.

  10. #40

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by blorgan View Post
    "Our" side??? This isn't a question of us versus them. It is a question of who and what we are.
    Who are you?
    (Boop boop boop boop)

    It's us versus the heroin monkey, which is turning TDA into an impotent shell of its former self, and ruining Disneyland as a result.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  11. #41

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by blorgan View Post
    "Our" side??? This isn't a question of us versus them. It is a question of who and what we are.
    Could you elaborate?

    Specifically, in the above post, what is:

    • us?
    • them?
    • who?
    • what?
    • we?


    Thanks
    Waiting for Godot Micechat.com

  12. #42

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    Disney just needs security to enforce the California litter law. I'm sure after a $1000 fine with 24 hours of community service, people will think twice about putting that drink cup on the ground.

  13. #43

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    Disney just needs security to enforce the California litter law. I'm sure after a $1000 fine with 24 hours of community service, people will think twice about putting that drink cup on the ground.
    Sounds great, but I fear the goats won't have anything to eat then
    Waiting for Godot Micechat.com

  14. #44

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    I was having a snack once at DL when a woman pushing a stroller walked past, tossed a bag full of something in the direction of the trash can, and kept going. A couple of kids were following about 10 feet behind her and I said: "Your Mom dropped something" Instead of looking themselves, they ran up to her and told her and she came flying back, looking frantically, thinking she dropped something out of one of the 5820586572175 bags she had hanging off the stroller. I just smiled and pointed at the bag and said: "You missed"
    She at least had the grace to look embarrassed.

    I agree that the problem has steadily gotten worse, and I do mostly blame park guests. I've seen too many people just drop or toss items or get up from a table or bench and leave their trash behind. They just do not care. But Mr. Wiggins is also right...the park has to beef up the number of CMs required to take care of the problem. They invited them in and they must pick up after them.

  15. #45

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    Re: Why is Disneyland Dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Sounds great, but I fear the goats won't have anything to eat then
    They could start on the generic 'disney parks' merchandise.

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