Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28
  1. #1

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    53

    Question Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    A topic quite often discussed on the MiceChat boards is that of how guests at Disney parks feel that because they paid $70 to get in they have a certain entitlement. This is posted in DLR however thiss applies to all Disney parks and beyond. The most common complaint about this issue is the unacceptable behaviour of guests who beleive they have such entitlements which are not met.

    I may be incorrect but I am generalising that many people who complain about badly behaved guests are people who do visits the parks quite often and have come to understand the perils that CM's experience. Whether it be a ride closure or an ill prepared guest not understanding why they can't watch WOC, there are many stories of how CM's having to deal with these people.

    Just as a precurser, I am not condoning such behaviour nor am I judging it, I am just exploring what should be acceptable behaviour and what should not.

    One thing that does have to be considered is that not all Disney guests are people who live half an hour away and are only paying $70 as many people who complain assume. Many people plan their Disney holidays years in advance, and have to travel half way across the world to visit the parks. These people, in their minds are seeing what Disney projects to the worl through their profile and advertisments that this place is 'perfect'. And it is these expectations which are the reason that families from across the world pay tens of thousands of dollars to live their Disney dreams. However it is this expectation that causes such bad behavior when they realised that these parks arn't perfect.

    The situations I am primarily talking about are ride closures and issues like WOC, other things like being generally rude to cast memebers and littering in the parks are straight out inappropriate. This has less to do with the park itself but the people themselves, and this is not what I am talking about.

    Many people won't like this but I think it is perfectly reasonable for a family who travels half way across the world to discover (for example the last couple of weeks) that a large proportion of attractions are closed to get angry. Yes I agree that it isn't the CM's fault but its not loke guests can line up outside Bob Igers office to express their issue. CM's know to expect these sorts of guests an I commend them on the professional way they do handle them. I am not suggesting that they should have to deal with these people, but the reality is that they do. Most people who apply to be a CM would expect this and it is a part of their job. I agree that it would be much easier for them if these people didn't exist, but a valet's job would also be easier if they didn't have to park cars.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that the arguments made about the issue of entitlement are very one sided. Many of these guests are unquestionably in the wrong, but many are still unfairly judged.

    I know people probably have stong feelings against what I have said, and feel free to express them. I am just trying to find the other perspective, and I feel the need to re-iterate that i am not standing up for bad behaviour in the parks.

  2. #2

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    Where to draw the line on entitlement?

    Behind the entitled person -- they've already stepped over it.

    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  3. #3

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlastairW View Post
    These people, in their minds are seeing what Disney projects to the worl through their profile and advertisments that this place is 'perfect'. And it is these expectations which are the reason that families from across the world pay tens of thousands of dollars to live their Disney dreams. However it is this expectation that causes such bad behavior when they realised that these parks arn't perfect.
    Slight correction: it is this expectation that causes feelings of disappointment, frustration and anger when they realize they are not getting what they expected. Those feelings can be entirely appropriate to the situation.

    How they choose to behave in expressing their feelings, however, is something entirely different. That's where the entitlement comes in.

    People who act out of a sense of self-entitlement want someone to take responsibility not only for the situation that is frustrating them, but for their emotions as well. They want someone -- be it the CM, lead or City Hall representative -- to fix both the situation and how they feel.

    People who do not act out of self-entitlement still feel disappointed, frustrated and angry, but take responsibility for how they express their feelings. They do not go off on CMs, their spouses or their children. Without repressing or denying their feelings, they maintain some degree of rationality, an appropriate sense of boundaries, and respect for others when acting out how they feel.

    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 09-17-2010 at 08:25 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  4. #4

    • Animatronic
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,860

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    Entitlement is something of a media buzz word, but I think the word is mostly abused, especially in the case of paid entertainment like Disneyland.

    If someone pays, it's certainly reasonable to expect something. And in the case of a new experience, it can be quite confusing as to what services you really paid for or how you are to behave.

    Do they expect you to leave your dishes on the table, or take the trays to the trash can? It's not always clear. Some theaters instruct you to leave your trash on the floor and collect it between showings. Disney has sweepers, even going through the lines. Do they expect you to leave your trash on the ground? Confusion is not entitlement. Expecting something for your money certainly isn't a false sense of entitlement.

    Once people start acting a certain way and getting away with it, some people will follow the example. That's just copying and really isn't coming from a sense of entitlement either.

    So does a false sense of entitlement exist in the average Disneyland customer? I'm not so sure. Does it make for a great story that gets people thinking "Hey! I've seen people doing things!", sure.
    it's a sale of candy and a sale of plush, it's a sale of toys and disney stuff
    there's so much that we sell, that it's time we tell, it's a plush plush sale!

  5. #5

    • Nutty guy from Canada
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Langley, BC, Canada
    Posts
    261

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    Common sense (which doesn't seem to exist much these days) means that not everything is going to be open on any given day. Yeah, it sucks but life isn't fair.

    An entire generation has been raised on the falsehood that everyone is a winner and that you can accomplish what ever you want if you work hard enough but once out in the real world people discover this is not the case. Life is cruel and unfair at times but that does not entitle anyone in any way shape or form to take it out on the CM's.

    Proper research will tell you when long term closures are planned for. Day of closures happen and people must use their common sense to understand that. With luck the closed attraction will be re-opened later that day or the following day. Have some patience and let the poor CM's be.

    My family and I went to DLR in February when Rivers of America was closed. We were disappointed as the Mark Twain is a favorite of mine but you didn't find me tearing a strip off some poor CM's hide cause of it. It happens. You accept that life doesn't always give you what you want and you move on.

    Sorry for the rant but I have little patience for people who think they are entitled to what they want, when they want it. Life doesn't work that way and I wish people would remember that.
    The Chadwick's Online Photo & Video Galleries
    DLR: 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012
    DCL: Alaska Cruise Aboard Disney Wonder 2013
    Planned Trips: DLR November 2014, WDW March 2017

    Very Happy Disney Vacation Club Member Since 2010
    270 Points at The Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel & Spa

  6. #6

    • A Weather Eye Open
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    2,540

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    I'm going to have to agree that if you're going to go to the trouble spending this money and planning a big Disney vacation (honestly, this applies to any vacation), that common sense would dictate you to do your research. Whether it be finding out what major attractions refurbs will be going a year in advance, or reading the showtimes guide the morning you come into the park to find out when the parade or WoC is, it's the guest's responsibility.

    The info about showtimes and ride closures is readily available 1) on the official Disneyland website, or 2) on pages like Mice Chat found by a quick Google search for the topic in question.
    I'm sure some of the phone operators would even assist with this, if people prefer not to use the internet.

    Once in the park, any CM would be happy to let them know what time something is, how to get fastpasses, how to get a good view, if only they would ask. CMs try to help guests who are obviously confused or lost non-stop, but they don't have ESP or something to tell who is expecting to waltz into DCA at 11:10 pm and just show up for WoC (hint: they won't let you through the park turnstiles without you putting up a big fight!)

    People read the reviews to find the best hotels, and shop around for the cheapest air fare deals, but they seem to think the park will just be self-explanatory when they get there. The resort is very densely populated with hundreds of things to do, and things like schedules are constantly changing. I think any park goer, whether they are local with a 1 or 2 day parkhopper, or traveling a long distance and staying in Anaheim for a week, is going to be shortchanged without arming themselves with good knowledge and research like this. They're not going to get their money's worth.

    I don't think the issue here is so much "entitlement" as it is expectation. People have either unrealistic or uninformed expectations of what they will be able to do in the parks. The slight irony is that they could really exceed their own expectations with a little research on their own part in terms of what the park has to offer, even if they're missing out on a favorite closed E-Ticket or something.

    I think when "entitlement" comes up on the boards, it's really a different issue that what we've described here. "Entitlement" comes across when people think that they are the exception to the rules that every other guests follows; when Mickey is done with his time meeting people on Main Street and has to go take a break, and the handler clearly states this, but someone shoves to the front anyway and pulls on Mickey's costume and demands that he stay for their autograph and picture. Or when a mom lets her kids climb on and through the fences bordering Rivers of America because it's fine because they're her kids, and they want to play, and she paid to be there (even though everyone else also paid admission, and remind their kids to stay off the fence), and then displays aggression to a CM that tries to assist by asking the kids to stay on the right side of the fence. Both of these examples are safety issues, and I've noticed that safety is really in jeopardy when people start flouting these rules. They think that it's no big deal and that they can be an exception, but it can actually be quite dangerous. (I read an account of a former Friend of Alice getting stabbed very seriously with a writing implement by an angry autograph seeker. Blood everywhere and she had to just excuse herself and make it backstage to call 911 for paramedics to take her to the hospital!)
    "And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" (John Masefield)



  7. #7

    • Mickey Ear Biter
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    near the happiest place on earth!
    Posts
    283

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    Entitlement is something of a media buzz word, but I think the word is mostly abused, especially in the case of paid entertainment like Disneyland.

    If someone pays, it's certainly reasonable to expect something. And in the case of a new experience, it can be quite confusing as to what services you really paid for or how you are to behave.

    Do they expect you to leave your dishes on the table, or take the trays to the trash can? It's not always clear. Some theaters instruct you to leave your trash on the floor and collect it between showings. Disney has sweepers, even going through the lines. Do they expect you to leave your trash on the ground? Confusion is not entitlement. Expecting something for your money certainly isn't a false sense of entitlement.

    Once people start acting a certain way and getting away with it, some people will follow the example. That's just copying and really isn't coming from a sense of entitlement either.

    So does a false sense of entitlement exist in the average Disneyland customer? I'm not so sure. Does it make for a great story that gets people thinking "Hey! I've seen people doing things!", sure.
    I believe you've won your case.
    Last edited by Jesser-pie; 09-18-2010 at 12:37 AM. Reason: whoops!
    Sometimes we cannot help, but be a little over dramatic...

  8. #8

    • Make it Cool
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Historic Core
    Posts
    750

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    I think some of the behavior associated with this sense of entitlement comes from the guilt that some guests feel about spending money on an experience that they can't afford. A day in the park with all the trimmings (or a premium annual pass) is a much larger sacrifice for some than others and often those who are spending beyond their means are not sophisticated enough to suspend their self indulgence and think about the experience of those around them and the staff.

  9. #9

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,332

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    People who visit the travel forums like TripAdvisor and others are often planning their vacations a year in advance, especially if they are international travelers such as the many who come from England and Australia. Disneyland, on the other hand, doesn't put detailed calendars on their web site more than 2 months in advance, and 2 months is not enough when planning a major international trip. I would change Disneyland's web site to announce attraction closures as much as a year in advance, and a general framework for seasonal parades and shows. They don't need to know exactly what time the fireworks will be shown, for example, but they do want to know if there is a fireworks show or a World of Color show every night in September, or only on weekends, etc. That sort of thing. Knowledgeable experts in the parks, such as Darkbeer and others, end up manually replying to all of these, telling individual travelers, yes, in that month, the Fantasmic! is only on weekends or, the Haunted Mansion is usually closed during that time for addition/removal of the overlay, and so forth. It should be the duty of the park itself to provide at least the general information on what will and won't be available. The more information the park can put online, and the earlier, the less likely there will be these disappointments.

  10. #10

    • Hooterville, USA
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    The Haney House
    Posts
    10,147

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    I think we're confusing "reasonable expectation" with "entitlement".


    This has been a Filmways presentation dahling.

  11. #11

    • Senior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,872

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    I think I'm entitled to both parks for $70 since not long ago thats what I got and I don't think the value of the package has significantly increased :P
    "We all have sparks, imagination! it's how our minds... create creations!"

  12. #12

    • =)
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,290

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    I've been struggling to find a way to put my thoughts on this into words.

    Obviously, when you're paying a high price for something, there is a natural expectation that what you get in return has high value. That makes perfect sense. Visiting the parks is expensive - even the APs may be a great deal, but their absolute prices are still quite high. Furthermore, Disney has a pedigree of top-notch theme park design that is naturally going to engender the expectation that that quality level is maintained or increased. Also makes sense. So on the one hand...going in with high expectations is pretty reasonable.

    But on the other hand, let's be realistic...those expectations won't always be met, and there is VERY little we can do about it. All the stuff that has the potential to really get people annoyed - ride closures, prices, not knowing about a policy, overall creative direction, etc. - are either random events or directives that come from way too high for most of us to have any influence whatsoever. Complaining to CMs accomplishes very little. Writing to Disney accomplishes very little. As individual guests, we really don't have much influence over what Disney does. Even boycotting the parks altogether really won't accomplish anything unless you have an insanely huge group of people doing it. (Like, in the millions.)

    So...with all that taken into consideration...my preferred tactic is to enter the parks with high expectations, some of which are inevitably exceeded and some of which are inevitably not met. When bad stuff happens, I accept that it's not fun and move on. There's nothing to profit from getting worked up about it.

    As for CMs, I think anyone who gets a job in the parks should expect (or quickly come to realize) that they're going to get complaints. Irrational complaints, rude complaints, exaggerated complaints. It's fine to wish it weren't that way - after all, it shouldn't be - but it's reality. And there's not much they can do to change that, either.


  13. #13

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    los angeles
    Posts
    22

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jspider View Post
    I think I'm entitled to both parks for $70 since not long ago thats what I got and I don't think the value of the package has significantly increased :P
    I second this. This is also the reason I hate plunking down 10 bucks for a slapped-together hamburger in DL or any other bland pile of mush they dare call "food." It's not worth anymore than 2 bucks!

  14. #14

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    los angeles
    Posts
    22

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    Quote Originally Posted by composerboy View Post
    I think some of the behavior associated with this sense of entitlement comes from the guilt that some guests feel about spending money on an experience that they can't afford. A day in the park with all the trimmings (or a premium annual pass) is a much larger sacrifice for some than others and often those who are spending beyond their means are not sophisticated enough to suspend their self indulgence and think about the experience of those around them and the staff.
    I find this offensive and insulting. "Not sophisticated enough" in what sense? Because they do not have a large enough income, they are immediately looked down upon and degraded? Yes, because the rich are certainly the models for propriety and decorum (hello Paris Hilton!).

  15. #15

    • Yes, that is my real name
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Far Northern, California, United States
    Posts
    2,323
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Entitlement - Where to Draw the Line?

    Phi1215's public resource representative would like to state she has no comment at this time. Thank you for your support and understanding of this situation.
    Yaye!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [Chat] To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line
    By Ice101 in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 12-20-2009, 05:29 PM
  2. the big draw - Sun-Sentinel 05/26/05
    By BigPigletFan in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-26-2005, 12:59 AM
  3. 5/3: Luck of the Draw
    By Al Lutz in forum MiceAge Discussions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-03-2005, 09:13 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •