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  1. #1

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    Red Face Possible expansion ideas for Disneyland Park,DCA,and the DLR

    Hi everyone! longtime lurker, first time poster....

    I had an idea that made me decide i needed to post here on the boards, and that is the best idea (IMO) about expanding the DLR without buying, little house, after little house....

    And that is expanding (possibly) both parks and for sure a 3rd/4th park, and that is the bullet train expansion.. since the trains can reach speeds of over 300 MPH, making the trip off the resort, almost instant, instead of like at WDW, where you can be on a bus for over 30mins to get from one park to another... this train would allow a quick trip, giving people less of an excuse to say "Oh, Well instead of taking a 45 min trip to another park, i'll just go to DL"

    Tell me what you think!

  2. #2

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    Re: Possible expansion ideas for Disneyland Park,DCA,and the DLR

    That could work, but also remember that where the Toy story lot currently is, is big enough for another gate which would be like a 5 minute bus, 2 minutes on a monorail and maybe 20 minutes walk
    Trips coming up:

    May 22-26th
    July 13th-18th
    November 19th-25th

  3. #3

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    Re: Possible expansion ideas for Disneyland Park,DCA,and the DLR

    Not sure about this.
    Quote by Al:
    To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
    -Al Lutz



  4. #4

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    Re: Possible expansion ideas for Disneyland Park,DCA,and the DLR

    I think first of all they need to envision a master plan for what it is they want to do. Look all the way across the field rather than just the middle of the court. Then when they decide what they're going to do, look at connecting the dots with something like what you're describing. It makes sense, but luckily the DLR will never been as big as the DWR, so they probably don't have to worry about the transportation issues that they do over there. If anything, I would say expand the areas that the Monorail travels to. I think that would be sufficient, but I suppose it depends on how spread apart eventual parks and portions of the Resort are.

  5. #5

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    Re: Possible expansion ideas for Disneyland Park,DCA,and the DLR

    The resort is so small and compacted I dont think that a monorail expansion is of great concern right now (much less a bullet train). This kind of need is more suited for Walt Disney World.

  6. #6

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    High Speed Rail Hub/Anaheim Stadium

    I've often thought that Disney should look further east for additional land (due to cost) for parking and use light-rail to transport their guests into the resort district. Anaheim's bid for a high-speed rail link presents an opportunity for Anaheim and Disney to provide a central transport hub. Yes, the parking could be further away, but a light rail system would transport their guests directly to the resort with less cost than a monorail or peoplemover.

    Obviously, the Toy Story lot is reserved for the eventual 3rd gate yet happens to be across the street from Garden Walk (currently in bankruptcy). Garden Walk is ideally suited for a buy-out and even has infrastructure in place for hotels/timeshare built into it (for DVC members and "Value" resorts). The lot north of Garden Walk could become the gargantuan Mickey & Friends "East" Structure......

    The right of way for the electrical lines along Disney way could easily and simutaneously accomodate an affordable "light rail" (not Monorail) from Garden Walk/Downtown Disney East to the resort district. A light rail from the parking North of Garden Walk allows guests at Disney Hotels and Mickey & Friends "East" to access the resort and takes the shuttle busses off the streets. A light rail, similar to DCA's "Red Cars" (or San Diego's Trolleys) is more cost effective than a monorail and is easily adaptable if and when Anaheim gets it's high speed rail link further out east by Anaheim Stadium or the Pond.

    This puts parking into Mickey & Friends "West" and "East" and frees up the lots south of PPH for further development. Theoretically, you could also run these "Red Cars" south down Harbor to connect the hotels in Garden Grove (Hyatt/Embassy) to the resort at a minimum cost (provided Garden Grove assisted with the financing)..........

    This takes the "shuttles" off the streets (reducing traffic) and provides Disney wih a way to control the access to the current shuttle "drop-off" zone with one central station that has both east and south lines.

  7. #7

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    Re: Possible expansion ideas for Disneyland Park,DCA,and the DLR

    Trying to find the land for a bullet train right of way from one park to another would be a borderline impossible task. The fact that those high speed trains need to travel nearly straight and their corners have to be well banked and very gradual mean that they would have to find a straight route to the other park, buying up everything in the path. Truely that is an almost impossible task in an urban setting.

    The quickest, most efficient method of transportation is needed in any setting, but this would really not probobly work in Anaheim.

    Speaking of Resort Expansion:



    On a side note, it seems that the newest master plan for the resort is in the works. That was hinted toward at the Destination D event.

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    Another thought - Pedestrian Crossing at Disney Way

    As I thought more about this.........

    A light-rail from Mickey & Friends "East"/Garden Walk would need to cross Harbor further south than the current cross-walk in front of the transit area.

    However, if Disney and Anaheim agreed for a light-rail "underpass" with a combined pedestrian through-way on the Disney Way/Harbor intersection, you would not need the signals on Harbor across from the transit center or for the light-rail and would consequently ease traffic congestion on Harbor.....

    But the electrical right of way on Disney Way (immediately South of the Best Western Anaheim Inn) provides space for the light-rail directly onto Disney property and an underpass (Harbor Blvd Overpass) is logistically much easier to accomplish.

    Yeah, it means a further walk from HoJo's....... but it does take traffic off the streets and allows Disney to control the "experience" from off-site parking to the main gate.......... The current transit center would become the "Red Car" Station for guests from Garden Walk and Mickey & Friends "East" Structure........

    Expensive? Sort of, requires the purchase of Garden Walk and a new parking Structure north of Garden Walk - but it is much cheaper and could carry more passengers than a monorail or PM and would easily connect the current DLR with Garden Walk (even channelling guests "thru" Garden Walk) to get to the eventual 3rd Gate............. All while keeping ALL guests "On Property" like they try to do at WDW.............

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    Re: High Speed Rail Hub/Anaheim Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by sdjeff4sc View Post
    The right of way for the electrical lines along Disney way could easily and simutaneously accomodate an affordable "light rail" (not Monorail) from Garden Walk/Downtown Disney East to the resort district.
    We have light rail in PHX. The above wires are ugly.
    Driving down roads with light rail is also a pain.
    Quote by Al:
    To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
    -Al Lutz



  10. #10

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    Re: High Speed Rail Hub/Anaheim Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFreak71 View Post
    We have light rail in PHX. The above wires are ugly.
    Driving down roads with light rail is also a pain.
    Yet, if the light-rail lines are in underneath the power lines that run along Disney Way, they do not interfere with ground traffic, they do not share the lanes of traffic with Disney Way, but would cross underneath Harbor Blvd and turn North to where the current transit hub is.

    That being, the light-rail from Pumba/Garden Walk doesn't actually share the street with ground traffic, so it can run continuously so you could run more trains without disrupting surface traffic.

    Light rail under Harbor is far more cost-effective and carries more passengers than a monorail or PM, but if it doesn't interfere with ground traffic on Harbor and allows a pedestrian undercrossing under Harbor, then traffic on Harbor is decreased yet allows uninterrupted access to the DLR......

    AND...... it allows/provides for the flexibility to link with Anaheim's cherished high-speed link, whenever THAT may happen.

    No, I wouldn't put light-rail into current surface streets surrounding the DLR, but if you could put it where there is currently nothing, it reduces the amount of traffic on Harbor and surrounding areas......

  11. #11

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    Re: Possible expansion ideas for Disneyland Park,DCA,and the DLR

    Firstly, the light rail lines have nowhere near the span of the high tension power lines and would still require a web of cords and extra support towers (no buildings or anything else in the area to anchor them to). Not exactly aesthetically pleasing.

    The addition of light rail to Disneyland's transportation fleet would mean a need for a whole new shop producing and maintaining a whole new type of vehicle while they already have the tools, technicians and machines in place to maintain Monorails. Also, because a monorail never shares grade with other transit, Light Rail being built off grade only brings it closer to a Monorail's efficiency, it does not give it an advantage.

    Why go under the street with an expensive tunnel requiring closures and detours when you can get a monorail beam installed over the road overnight? Depending on the style of light transit or monorail, the costs and ridership numbers your speculating cannot be guaranteed. There is no rule that says monorail trains hold more or less people than a Light Rail train, it is all based on the design. Regardless, we know that Disney is not going to implement a system where people are packed in like crazy. In the case of an actual transportation network though, it is obvious that higher capacity trains like those in WDW are more likely than the smaller trains currently in Disneyland which need to take tighter turns.

    I'm confused too how Light Rail is more flexible with Anaheim's proposed plans when compared to Monorail? How would you get light rail to any of the proposed Transit Stations without putting it on roads?

  12. #12

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    Re: Possible expansion ideas for Disneyland Park,DCA,and the DLR

    I don't know if you realize this, but bullet trains don't go from 0-200 mph instantaneously. It takes many miles to reach maximum speed, and even then the speed limit of the train is much lower when running through densely populated areas like OC.

    Also, unless there's an unused corridor that can be had for free, you'd have to buy up homes to create a rail corridor, which would add billions of dollars on top of the already enormous construction costs.

    Then there's the issue of capacity--trains of this type are not designed for high capacity like subways and light rail.

    I think if you do some research on high speed trains you'll find that it would be entirely unsuitable for this purpose.

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    Re: Possible expansion ideas for Disneyland Park,DCA,and the DLR

    Trevor......

    My concern was cost-per-mile......... as discussed in many previous threads, the cost-per-mile of monorail track (several million $$ per mile) is prohibitive. Building track on the ground is generally less expensive than placing tracks above ground level. Yes, my proposed light-rail/pedestrian underpass at the intersection of Disney Way and Harbor is an expensive proposition, but I saw light-rail as a more cost-effective aternative that is flexible enough to link to any future Anaheim High Speed rail link but still use the ground underneath the SCE's electrical right of way to enter the DLR. This keeps it off-street and uses an eye-sore right of way for the power lines.

    For the short-term, a light-rail from Pumba/Garden Walk is less expensive than a separate monorail loop. I would love a monorail, but, as you mention, the design would need to be seriously upgraded to allow the passengers/mile/hour that off-site parking/transportation requires.

    I'm not disagreeing here, our ideas are VERY similar (your general concept for the DLR is fantastic), but I think Al himself has nixed the DLR Monorail idea as being too expensive. I just can't see TDA committing enough money for enough trains with enough capacity to make a monorail work in the DLR area. In the alternative, I suggested a light-rail with a combined light-rail/pedestrian underpass at the intersection of Harbor and Disney Way.

  14. #14

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    Re: Possible expansion ideas for Disneyland Park,DCA,and the DLR

    It took several years in PHX to be built (light rail).
    Construction limited traffic to business.
    Many business shut down due to people avoiding areas where construction was.
    Harbor is extremely busy with little room for expansion or portions of the road being shut down.
    Quote by Al:
    To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
    -Al Lutz



  15. #15

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    Re: Possible expansion ideas for Disneyland Park,DCA,and the DLR

    If it were me designing the Disneyland Resort master plan, I'd buy gardenwalk, put in a new parking structure but not name it something we've already seen, I'd call it the Disney Princess structure, you'd be parking on levels named for each princess (Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, and Tiana, maybe one for Repunzel if that movie is a success), then you'd park in areas themed to characters from the movie (on the Belle level you'd have zones themed to Belle, Beast, Lumiere, Cogsworth, Mrs. Potts, and Gaston) the basic setup is that you park in areas based on the hero, heroine, villain, and 3 supporting characters. Also, each level would be painted to match the movie (similar to the current TLM:AUA walls). Then I'd put another one at the south end of the PPH parking area and theme it to Disney Heroes (Hercules, Tarzan, Peter Pan, Jack Sparrow, Quasi Moto, and Jack Skellington) it would be a similar setup to the Princess structure with exception of the Jack Sparrow level where the characters are Jack, Will, Elizabeth, Barbossa, Davy Jones, and Tia Dalma.

    Then I'd re design the resort drop off area and only have one loop for the cast members and taxi guests, this would be a smaller loop basically basically the size of the current cast member loop but in the place of the longest one. That way they could expand both Tomorrowland to the south and Hollywoodland to the north.

    Then I'd expand the monorail, and have it change the route to keep most of what is already there. Keep the trains the same size (they can load faster and have more operational at once, so when the tracks first leave the park would be re-routed to across Harbor over to the Princess Structure (this is also close to the 3rd gate and DTD East), then have it turn around and cross Harbor again and head in to DCA from the south but at the same location, that way most of what is currently in both Parks won't need to be touched, they should do this in phases to keep the monorail running most of the track, so next it turns left out of GCH toward the Disney Heroes lot, stops there, circles around the building then heads toward where the current DTD station is and rejoin the rest of the existing track, you'd probably have 4-5 trains running at a time to always have one on its way to each station. You also don't have to worry about whether someone has Park Hoppers because the only in-park stop is still in Tomorrowland, and if someone wants to visit either DCA or the Third gate, get off at either the DTD station or the DTD East station (in order to keep them from exiting at DL if they only have a ticket to one of the other parks, you just have them get one section to themselves. So you'd have those that are heading through DL to the Princess structure/DTD East/3rd gate just stay inside the monorail, and since they check your ticket when you get on at DTD, they could have CMs explain that if they don't have a park hopper or a DL ticket that they just stay inside. Or the best solution to this is to only sell park hoppers, no more single park tickets with 3 parks, I don't think WDW sells single park tickets but I could be wrong
    Trips coming up:

    May 22-26th
    July 13th-18th
    November 19th-25th

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