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  1. #31

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    Happens to the best of us.


  2. #32

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    Personally i do not consider him a sell-out at all. He revived disney movie making (and to me disney story telling) with pixar. He brought a burst of energy with him to WDI, and who knows if he plans on working on a new story just for an attraction. He doesnt run WDI, so he cannot make a green light on anything. Whoever greenlights projects is creating these lands/attractions. Hopefully we will see in the future if john does have something up his sleeve, and his brand of story telling can be transfered into ride form. its a hard thing to do, considering how intricate and involved pixar story telling is, it isnt an overview of an event like HM or PotC, its a heart filled story on select characters which is a hard thing.

    As long as im not seeing "john lasseter presents" on everything he does, and if hes not gutting and changing old rides himself to put in his ride, he is fine with me. For now, lets wait and see if he does have a big project in mind. If its just a pixar movie in ride form from now on, then i'll be scared.
    In this vast network of sharks and minnows, where the minnows outnumber the sharks a million to one, why is it that we have yet to converge? To take on the upper hand? Why have we been so scared? Well not today, not anymore. This is us growing up, still young, but no longer impressionable. We have come to pillage! We have come to burn! We have come to incite the riot! We have come to take it over!

  3. #33

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by blorgan View Post
    Datameister, thank you for your concern. I was out of line. I am ashamed that I let my feelings run away. Mr Wiggins, I was not hearing you, and owe you an apology. I guess I need to kick back, and listen more carefully. Forgive me for my rant. It was not directed at you personally. Just a knee jerk reaction. Emphasis on jerk.
    No problem at all, blorgan -- thanks for your post!
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
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  4. #34

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    It was a post that was from the heart. I value your opinions. Enough said.

  5. #35

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    Well, I don't think you get what Mr. Wiggins was trying to say. I'm sure he was not talking about Adult Entertainment. But here is what we look at in the company today, and why PIXAR works.

    You don't make a movie for kids. You're dead if you aim for kids. Why? Here's why. When you're a kid, you're growing up in an adult world. Kids are used to not understanding some things... they expect it. So much, that if you talk down to kids, they don't like it. They expect to see movies made for adults. All PIXAR movies are made for adults. Go watch one. I think the most obvious movies are like Toy Story. Watch it when you're young, then watch it when you're older, see how different the movie is. It grows with you. Because it never talked down to you. You just understand it even more.

    That's why you're dead if you aim for kids.

    Plus, ultimately, the parents have the wallets. (Though usually the kids are the ones deciding what movies to see.) But think of it this way... if there's a PIXAR movie that you saw once, and then you see another... and another... and you love them because you know they entertain you, then you're certainly going to see that movie vs. another "kids" movie. Yes, I'm acknowledging that the public treats PIXAR movies as "kids" movies.
    -Bill

  6. #36

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFreak71 View Post
    Not sure where the "self righteous" comment is coming from.
    I agreed with someone
    And then made a general statement (not aimed at anyone)
    Fair enough. But Lasseter should get SOME benefit of the doubt, and who are we to cast stones? Did we direct a bunch of hit movies for Pixar, do any of us have lands and rides based on characters we created? No!

    That is all.

  7. #37

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Well, I don't think you get what Mr. Wiggins was trying to say. I'm sure he was not talking about Adult Entertainment. But here is what we look at in the company today, and why PIXAR works.

    You don't make a movie for kids. You're dead if you aim for kids. Why? Here's why. When you're a kid, you're growing up in an adult world. Kids are used to not understanding some things... they expect it. So much, that if you talk down to kids, they don't like it. They expect to see movies made for adults. All PIXAR movies are made for adults. Go watch one. I think the most obvious movies are like Toy Story. Watch it when you're young, then watch it when you're older, see how different the movie is. It grows with you. Because it never talked down to you. You just understand it even more.

    That's why you're dead if you aim for kids.

    Plus, ultimately, the parents have the wallets. (Though usually the kids are the ones deciding what movies to see.) But think of it this way... if there's a PIXAR movie that you saw once, and then you see another... and another... and you love them because you know they entertain you, then you're certainly going to see that movie vs. another "kids" movie. Yes, I'm acknowledging that the public treats PIXAR movies as "kids" movies.
    took the words right out of my mouth!

  8. #38

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Fair enough. But Lasseter should get SOME benefit of the doubt, and who are we to cast stones? Did we direct a bunch of hit movies for Pixar, do any of us have lands and rides based on characters we created? No!

    That is all.
    If you read my previous post I said he wasn't a sell out
    And gave props to TSMM
    Quote by Al:
    To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
    -Al Lutz



  9. #39

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The issue isn't whether or not Disney builds Pixar rides.

    The issue is how creative, innovative and Disney quality -- or not -- that they make them.
    That is the issue for me as well.

    One of the regular posters (leemac) on the Hysterical Location discussion boards recently posted that Kevin Rafferty had designed an elaborate Route 66 concept for DCA, but Lasseter would have none of it and killed it. He was unwilling to compromise on merging Rafferty's area with his own, and insisted on keeping all of the original Radiator Springs concept intact at the expense of what Rafferty designed.

    For those who are big fans of the Cars film franchise, great. But for those who are even bigger fans of California car culture in general, not so much.

    There was an opportunity to please both sets of park guests (who tend to overlap each other to varying degrees) but Lasseter only wanted his product represented. That, to me, is not what Disney Imagineering is supposed to be about. That is all about ego and hubris.

    And FWIW... leemac claims that Radiator Springs Racers is solidly on track to become Disney's most expensive attraction ever built, even exceeding the current title holder, Tower of Terror at TDS. Current estimates apparently put it well north of $300 million. For one Pixar-based attraction.

    Given the huge expense for Nemo Subs, I'm highly concerned about putting that much capital into one lone attraction based on one of Pixar's weaker films. Not everyone is a fan of Test Track at EPCOT, nor is everyone a fan of Pixar's Cars. Combining the two at such a great expense is shocking to me, in this age of Iger Austerity.

    Sure, the film merch sells very, very well. But all those toy car collectors would have also been thrilled with Rafferty's Route 66 district. They aren't just into the film's characters; they're into the whole car culture in general. Merging the two districts would have been a win-win for both Cars and Route 66 enthusiasts. But by putting all of the funding eggs into the Carsland basket, Disney runs the risk of not satisfying an optimum number of park guests to justify the expense as well as generate all those repeat clicks at DCA's turnstiles. Which is what this Phase I expansion is all about.

    It's sad that a theme park which supposedly represents the best of California, is choosing to represent one of the state's most well-known iconic elements solely through an animated rip-off of Doc Hollywood.
    "Dope smoking insects and reckless driving always work." -- Cousin Orville

  10. #40

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    I don't think he's a sellout. Put yourself in his shoes. You'd want to see your creations become part of the place you love too. The problem I have is why doesn't Pixar have more involvement in the actual attractions? The movies are so witty and well written, yet the attractions always portray the characters wrong (Nemo is the best example). Same thing with Stitch too. Imagineering has really terrible writers.

  11. #41

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by blorgan View Post
    ^^^ Agree. Pixar has set the bar for modern animation. Like it or not, Disney will only benefit from his collaboration. As a disclaimer, I am one who is a fan of his work. I was drawn (no pun) back to animation because of his work. I have high hopes for Carsland, and eagerly await it's opening. If he is a "sell-out", it seems to me the only one he "selling" out to is his own creative vision. Good on him.
    Well said here. This thread was bound to get a number of people all riled up that think they know better than the visionaries themselves. Classic armchair critiques. Lasseter is far from a sell-out. The guy is a genius storyteller, trying to take the lives and endeavors his film characters are experiencing, and give guests a chance to get in on it. What's wrong with that? The argument that the Pixar themed attractions and lands aren't "classic Disney" is stale. Disney moves in new directions like any other successful company thanks to ideas like those of Lasseter. Collaboration between artists at Pixar and Imagineering is crucial and while some may not agree that it is turning quality results, I am on board with Lasseter. It is like he is the train conductor and I am sitting up in the tender watching him do that magic with all the levers!
    "Let's get weird" -Abraham Lincoln

  12. #42

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    I think Carsland is going to blow me away. I can't believe Toy Story Playland came after this, creatively. Because the Bugs miniland was mediocre but actual Toy themed lands with giant thrill rides are really not justifiable. But being immersed in the landscape presented in the Cars film franchise will be something Disney has never done on such a scale before. I think I'll like it.

  13. #43

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    But being immersed in the landscape presented in the Cars film franchise will be something Disney has never done on such a scale before. I think I'll like it.

    See, I don't know if I'll like it. But I already respect it as a risk--as something that hasn't been done before. At the very least, Lasseter isn't shaping up as a timid curator of corporate minimums, and his love for Disney is sincere.

    This is not a bad situation, leadership-wise, for the parks.

  14. #44

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    We sit back and take in the world of the pirates of the Caribbean Sea, or the spirits in the haunted mansion, or whatever indoor attraction that takes us away.

    We're going to walk into and drive through this new LAND that will have an awesome giant mountain range wrapping around it. It'll be pretty hard not to feel like you've stepped into another world. Which is what DCA needed, right?

  15. #45

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    Re: Is John Lasseter a total sell-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoygunaSurf View Post
    Disney moves in new directions like any other successful company thanks to ideas like those of Lasseter. Collaboration between artists at Pixar and Imagineering is crucial and while some may not agree that it is turning quality results, I am on board with Lasseter. It is like he is the train conductor and I am sitting up in the tender watching him do that magic with all the levers!
    ...you find Toy Story Playland to be of high quality? I sure don't. Nor do I find Finding Nemo: Submarine Voyage an adequate replacement for the original attraction (though I don't blame John for this ride...a lot was set in stone before he could even touch the project, as Eisner was the one that green-lit it). Not a fan of hearing a bunch of baby voices saying "Nemo" 50 times in the span of a few minutes. I feel like the ride is talking down to me, and it's talking down to the kids as well, as some posters have expressed earlier.

    There are reasons why studies are coming out saying that children's programming makes our youth less intelligent...sure, they don't get everything, but they just ignore it and keep actively listening anyway. Kids just want to be adults...they want to be thought of and talked to as adults. The last thing they want to hear is, "I'll tell you when you're older."

    Walt talked to kids like adults. He treated his family entertainment not as kiddie entertainment, but as something that quite simply the whole family could enjoy together. That was why he built Disneyland in the first place! He took his girls to a carnival and they rode the Merry-Go-Round while he sat on a bench and watched some trash scattered on the ground. He wanted to actively do things with his daughters, but he wanted to enjoy those things, too. So he created a place with family-friendly attractions where all ages could ride and enjoy together. Little Johnny, teen Rebecca, middle-aged Mary and 83 year-old Grandma can all enjoy Pirates of the Caribbean together and all take something different from it. That's what "family entertainment" is supposed to mean. For some ridiculous reason, people have tried to change the meaning of that term to mean "children's entertainment." It's a crime to the public and the entertainment industry and as a result we get lower-quality products. Originally, cartoons were watched by everyone! The original Mickey Mouse wasn't the 100% innocent straight man that Disney has been showing us for many decades now...he used to be a real rascal. They're trying to go back to the original concept more now, but we'll see how successful that is.


    I have high hopes for Carsland (ugh, wish they'd change the name...). While I find Cars to be the weakest of the Pixar films (not that it's awful, it just doesn't seem to have the heart that the others have IMO), the attraction concepts look fantastic...I mean, we're getting a new version of the Flying Saucers! John was really excited and proud of that. The themeing for this land will be superb, and with Mr. Lasseter's continual guidance, it will be a great land.

    But I have to add that, like many others, I'm not a fan of this single-franchise land thing. Alice in Wonderland has a small section of Fantasyland, but it's still Fantasyland. Lands, I think, need to stay general in order to accommodate many different attractions for guests to experience. Carsland will be themed to a T, but how does this work overall with anything else in DCA?

    Oh well. California Adventure was too screwed up to begin with...I think it will always be a hodge-podge park, because the higher-ups will never approve to really fix it. They'll just put a few fancy band-aids on it instead.

    It's not all John's fault. He has a high position, but he's not in absolute control. He's a Disneyland geek like many of us here. He's also a geek about his own creations (and, well, we can't really blame him for that). I do sometimes question if he can step back and fight for the bigger picture and get over his personal attachments to his properties at crucial moments...I'm not there, so I don't know. I do know that his presence has greatly improved things at Disney, and we're in better shape then we were ten years ago. He's not Walt...it's doubtful that we'll ever get another Walt. I think the people from MiceChat would have to seize control of Disney in order to get even close, and heaven knows that that's not gonna happen

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