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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by ah schucks
    They revamped Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln didn't they? Also Innoventions (an educational and informative operation) was opened in the late 90's. Only new rides recently at all have been dark rides (thanks Pressler) Besides when was the last time they opened an original E-class ride either? Tower of Terror is a cloned ride so don't star that bs and Indy was early 90's if memory serves. ....so once upon a time must be just a few years ago.
    One of the things about DCA that gets me is that it functions on the WDW, "Wow, I got a whole heck of a lot of space to work with now to develope an immersive experiance, don't I" mentality... Look at ToT's cheque... Talk about wishfull thinking over kill...

    I think a "Backroads" section with a Herbie Car ride would work too... Uncontrollably driving over the extreme rugged landscape... almost falling off the cliffs on Hwy 1... Going around the laguna seca speed track... Wizzing through a ghost town in death valley... Skidding over sections of Lake Tahoe...
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  2. #32

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    Dshimel remebers my LA expansion great (even if ya dislike it)

    anywho I still think the LA expansion would be terrific for keeping the vague "backlot" theme from spreading and infecting the rest of the park as well as representing one of the key areas of California in a very interesting way (of course if you want htat you should read the LA expansion THREAD: http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=271 )

    I've also supported expanding the farm theme for a more immersive and educational/exciting experience (http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=1041)

    besides that I've always thought that a SanDeigo section could go behind the warf, not sure what exactly to put there but art/history stuff works well and so would marine rides

    A Ghost Town section could be well done and could even match the modern feel of the park and we could simply use Pirates type theming to pull you from a modern abandoned ghost town back to the days when it's flourishing, I've just about mapped out the ride idea, maybe I'll make a post on it soon

    some of the Zorro ideas are interesting but I dunno, I'm mostly not a big Zorro fan so I really don't want to see a ride with him in it put in the park (sorry Z fans but it doesn't seem to match the "feel")

    while in some respects I agree that the California theme is a bit more "bleh" then I'd like I think that Disney should work with it, if they don't I can see the park becoming very conviluted and not making much since, I'm sorry but it's WAY too late to try retheming and reopening the park again, it's just not going to happen

    of course I think that you could easily theme attractions to the land rather then the park and if Disney could do a few clever tie ins then thie mermaid darkride would be terrific for the Pier (http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=773)

    and would go well when tied in with a lagoon show (http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=798)

  3. #33

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    I rather like the idea of a deserty area- more San Diego based attractions, even going along with something more reflective of our strong heritage and link to Mexico. Maybe an indoor themed roller coaster on the back lot that has to do with Montezuma's Revenge (yes rip of Knotts) with ghost conquestadors and what not.

    Or steal some attractions and events from Animal Kingdom and hone in on some of the action from the San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal Park and Seaworld.

    Lastly I am still hoping that someone has the guts and glory to clone the Rock and Rollercoaster and put it in the backlot area, it makes so much sense and is wildly popular in Florida. Between that and the Great Movie ride, it would be cool to see the expansion of the Backlot, because its the obvious direction for DCA.







  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by ah schucks
    They revamped Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln didn't they?
    Yes, in an attempt to make it less education-y and more fun with hair cuts and flys buzzing and people stomping about....


    Quote Originally Posted by ah schucks
    Also Innoventions (an educational and informative operation) was opened in the late 90's.
    You're not serious, are you? 1) Innoventions was added as a way to get sponsor dollars. No one wants to give money just to have their name on an attraction. They will give Disney money IF the product IS the attraction. 2) You're not using the most hated attraction in Disneyland as the example for what kind of new attractions Disney should add... are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ah schucks
    Only new rides recently at all have been dark rides (thanks Pressler) Besides when was the last time they opened an original E-class ride either?
    2003... Mission:Space. A thrill based attraction. There is a small bit of reality, and some interaction, but it isn't education-based like you're talking about.

    And, I didn't limit it to ride. I said "education based" ATTRACTION. And why exclud clones?

    Let's look at the recent attractions added/being added to Disney parks.

    Expidetion Everist.... Thrill
    Soarin'... Mo-sim. Reality, but not educational based.
    car stunt show
    Buzz
    Talk to Crush addition to Living Seas
    ToT
    Snow White show
    Pooh
    Aladdin show
    Mission:Space
    Philharmagic
    Playhouse Disney
    WWTBAM-PI
    Bugsland


    Oh yeah, you're right.... You don't need to,

    "convience YOU about the importance of educationally based rides. Disney already conceides the point."

    I can see by all their additions to their parks over the last 4 years that Disney is convinced of the importance of Educationally based rides.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by dshimel
    Let's look at the recent attractions added/being added to Disney parks.
    Lets not look at the Florida parks which operate under a more efficient managements and planning staff and has a large emphasis on education rides.

    The revamp on Lincoln, was an attempt to make an education based ride more fun. Education does not preclude fun- that are not opposing themes, so why you are confussing the two is bewildering.

    Why do you so loathe education being tied to theme parks? Worried your precious E- ticket rides won't be developed so a bunch of school children might actually get more than a souviner out of there trip to Disneyland.

    Other people in this thread have shown signs of support and interest in the intergration of education and entertainment, you seem opposed by set of standards that are neither clear nor follow the Disney model. People can go to crappy theme parks like Knotts or Six Flags and wait in line for roller coaster after roller coaster- they come to Disney for the atmosphere and the variation of rides and attractions...the best things in Disneyland are things fail to notice or check out because they far too busy to stop and open there imagination up to the possibilities that Walt invisioned in all of his films, parks and characters.







  6. #36

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    But back to the TOPIC...

    I've been struggling with a concept. Technically, part of it is covered in the Eureka Bay/Gold Rush concept, but seeing as how this is the California Adventure, it seems a shame not to incorporate Sacramento. Is there even anything in the present DCA that represents our capitol?

    Unfortunately, it's been years since I've been there, so I don't know what you could really do with it. About the best I can come up with is conflating Sutter's Fort and Sutter's Mill (which is actually out near Coloma). And I know there's a big train museum up there, so if DCA ever gets resort-perimeter transportation, they could get something themed to railroads. But without getting any closer to politics than replica buildings of the capitol building and/or the governor's mansion, what else is there about Sacramento that might translate to a themepark?
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  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by ah schucks
    Why do you so loathe education being tied to theme parks? Worried your precious E- ticket rides won't be developed so a bunch of school children might actually get more than a souviner out of there trip to Disneyland.
    I don't loath them.

    I see that Disney has tried them over and over again, and each time they've tried them, Disney has found that they do not age well.

    It is Disney, not me, that has abondoned the idea of the edutainment type ride. I just understand and support the decision for a corporate need to maxamize profits. You maxamize profits by not needing to rebuild the parks every 10-15 years, and that means not building edutainment rides.

    This is why Disney tried to turn Tomorrowland into Sci-fi/Space-fantasy land. That is why it is doing thrill rides like Test Track and Mission:Space at Epcot. That is why the land is being "ruined" as many claim with the addition of Soarin'.


    Once again, the reality is that the company is owned by institutional investors. Institutional investors are only interested in stock price, which means profits. Profits require you not rebuild the theme park ever 10-15 years. Edutainment rides, time and time again have show they do not age well, needing to be rebuilt or replaced every 10-15 years.

    It isn't that I loath them... The rality is that Disney is no longer interested in building them.


    What Disney is interested in building is E-Ticket thrill rides and cartoon themed carnie-rides and Pooh quality dark rides. They think that using this formula will allow them to maximize profits.

    I think there is still plenty of need for Pirates quality dark rides... especially for DCA, a park with none of these.

    I simply agree with Disney that they can't maxamize profits by building edutainment-y dark rides that are unpopular when first opened, and grow ever more unpopular very quickly.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by ModHatter
    seeing as how this is the California Adventure, it seems a shame not to incorporate Sacramento. Is there even anything in the present DCA that represents our capitol?
    Yeah, we should pick a stupid land theme simply because it fits the stupid park theme.....

    NO, no, no, no.... NO!

    Stop thinking like Pressler. Stop thinking, "Yeah, that will fit the theme, let's slam that in here." That is what got us "farm" and "ugly-run-down-airport" and "Six Flags Paradise Peir".

    Stop thinking like Kevin Yee. Disneyland wasn't a hit becuase of patriotism or national pride... If it was, then DCA would have been a WILD hit with every CA native that had pride and attatchemnt to their state.

    Stop thinking "how can we do California better"? The theme is the root cause of ALL of DCA's problems. Boring theme that adds nothing to the rides, boring rides, boring park.



    Start thinking like Walt. Where would our guests LOVE to go but CAN'T easily go? What would the love to see, but can't easily see? What would our guests LOVE to do, but can't easily do? What exotic, distant (in time or place), totally awesome setting can we magically transport our guests into? What WAY fun things can we let them experience?

  9. #39

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    While I think that it's good to think of possible expansion themes (which, btw, I really like yours ModHatter) I think that DCA's development needs to be focused on the theming (or lack thereof) that they already have. They need to develop the existing "lands" a bit more before they can think of expanding.

    However, when or if they do expand, I'm all for a Silicon Valley/Tech area... the only difficult part of that would be the fact that technology changes so quickly, that the area would have to be constantly updating.

    I also like the idea of a Gold Rush theme, the only problem is, DL already has something very similar... it's called Frontierland. So, I doubt that would ever fly because of the duplicate theming.

    I really like the idea of developing more of the San Francisco Bay Area feel. I think that they could successfully operate a cable car ride (maybe even have it going around the perimeter, like the DLRR). Throw in a bit of Chinatown and I know I would really like it!

    I think a Mission/Mexican themed land is badly needed as well. It's such a huge part of Californian history, it's sad that it's reduced to a mission looking winery and a tortilla factory. However, I'm not really sure what types of rides/attractions you could put in there. I'm sure though, with their imaginations, the Disney Imagineers could definitely come up with something quite spectacular.

    If they were wanting to be cheap, they could add a Dinosaur themed land (La Brea Tar Pits anyone?) and just steal ideas/rides from WDW.

    As for edutainment, I'm all for it. I love those types of attractions... however, after the fiasco that is the tortilla factory, "winery" attraction and the bread bakery, they're going to have to really work (and think through) to make the edutainment attractions entertainment as well. I think that attractions (and rides for that matter) can be both educational and fun, but I think that there's a very fine line between making an attraction work and feeling that it's too educational for a theme park. They'd have to be much more careful this time around...

  10. #40

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    How about an Inland Empire Land (or is that redundant?). You could have acre after acre of cookie-cutter tract homes and strip malls (each with a Starbucks). The land would be ringed with beautiful snow-peaked mountains that you can't see because of the imagineered smog layer.

    The featured attraction would be the Commute of Death, which simulates a typical commute from LA/Orange County to Victorville/Banning/Temecula. The unique feature of this ride is that even with a two-hour queue on opening day, the ride would last longer than the line! Listen to disgruntled talk show hosts and 55-year old hippies playing "classic" rock, get rear-ended by someone on a cell phone, be sideswiped by an SUV-driving Road Rager, go thru a fast-food drive-thru (sponsored by McD's), eat in the car, spill ketchup on your shirt, get stuck in a Caltrans construction job ... good times .......
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  11. #41

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    I think there's really something to the whole Gold Rush idea. Think of how immersive an attraction that could be... put the guest right smack in the middle of 1849. There is plenty of room for the education factor (I still remember learning about the gold rush in the 4th grade), and if done well (Indy-style attention to detail), it could be an awesome ride. It wouldn't necessarily have to be a big thrill ride, either. I'm thinking Indy meets POTC.
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  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by dshimel
    *snip* Stop thinking "how can we do California better"? The theme is the root cause of ALL of DCA's problems. Boring theme that adds nothing to the rides, boring rides, boring park.

    Start thinking like Walt. Where would our guests LOVE to go but CAN'T easily go? What would the love to see, but can't easily see? What would our guests LOVE to do, but can't easily do? What exotic, distant (in time or place), totally awesome setting can we magically transport our guests into? What WAY fun things can we let them experience?
    I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. I personally don't think that the California theme is the problem with DCA, I think it's the fact that they tried to cut corners on everything. I have no problem whatsoever with DCA being California themed, it's the fact that it's a huge space of land with not very many worthwhile attractions. They are working towards fixing this though, with the addition of the Tower of Terror and the new Monsters, Inc.

    As someone who is not from California, I would LOVE to do a complete visit of California someday, but that's not an easy task for me. Sure, I can visit the SoCal area easily in one vacation, but what about the rest of the state? I think that's what some people are saying on here. Logistically, it's not easy to visit all of California in one visit, so by building DCA, theoretically you're bringing the best that California has to offer to the visitor who's not from California.

    And to say that those who are from California are bored by the park, I don't think that's fair. My sister is from SoCal and loves the park. Why does she like it? Because it celebrates (theoretically) the best that her state has to offer. Should she pack up and actually visit the rest of her state? Of course she should; but sometimes it's not as easy as that. Some people work way more than they should, which doesn't leave them time to take a real vacation. So, if all she has to do is drive 30 miles to DCA to experience a Disney version of what California has to offer, it's better than not experiencing "California" at all.

    Now, I'm not saying that a California themed park was the best choice for Disney to make. What I'm saying is that we are now stuck with the California theme thanks to Pressler, because we all know they aren't going to tear down or re-theme the entire park. So, work with what you have and start developing that. Then go into ways to expand the park.

    Now back to the original question - what new areas do you suggest? (Since the park isn't going to be re-themed/torn down)

  13. #43

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    How about a gold rush themed area/attraction.... California of days gone by. (But not the Donner Party... )

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegarooFifi
    While I think that it's good to think of possible expansion themes (which, btw, I really like yours ModHatter) I think that DCA's development needs to be focused on the theming (or lack thereof) that they already have. They need to develop the existing "lands" a bit more before they can think of expanding.
    On some level, I agree. However, as I found myself saying in a different thread, DCA needs a new gameplan.When you look at the positioning of GRR, ToT, and even the entrance gate itself, the park just feels to willy-nilly, especially as opposed to the park just across the way. True, if you look at DCA from above, and turn it 90 degrees counterclockwise, it does almost look like the shape of California, with the Golden Gate kind of close to the right location. But who sees the park from above??? And why would HPB end up in NorCal, IF the California shape was even their intent in the first place?

    DCA is subject to poor planning. Since we already know what exists in the park, I think it could be beneficial to see what's NOT in the park, and then decide on a singular vision of the California Adventure that incorporates both.

    So, for now, we're not really even debating the merits of each expansion idea. We're just doing a little brainstorming to highlight the missed opportunities of the current park, in the hope that those opportunities don't continue to go missing.
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  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by ModHatter
    So, for now, we're not really even debating the merits of each expansion idea. We're just doing a little brainstorming to highlight the missed opportunities of the current park, in the hope that those opportunities don't continue to go missing.
    Ahh, I apologize then, as I misunderstood your original intent. :o

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