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  1. #16

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Hmmm. Haven't we been through this before? SuperStar Limo and Golden Dreams. These were original attractions for DCA. Certainly, the detail wasn't there, but the originality was a flop. That's why they went back to fix DCA with movie based ideas that were from actual HITS like the Pixar movies.
    Both good ideas, badly executed. If they'd gone w/ the original ideas for these attractions, they would have been much better.

    Now, you have to tell me what exactly is DCA and what its true identity.
    Well, even Disney can't seem to figure that one out.

    I do agree that Pixar could be the correct creative team to create an original attraction. However, again, why would it preclude the release of a movie? It is almost complementary. In fact, I think the idea might be so good that they had to first release the movie and then build the attraction, thus defeating your idea that the ride is original and non-movie based.
    All that would take would be someone at the top saying, "No movies. This one's a park exclusive." Problem solved. Of course, that's unlikely to happen because of this presumption that DL cannot exist on its own as an independent entity, but only as a marketing vehicle for other Disney brands. It wasn't always this way.
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  2. #17

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway Guru View Post
    All that would take would be someone at the top saying, "No movies. This one's a park exclusive." Problem solved. Of course, that's unlikely to happen because of this presumption that DL cannot exist on its own as an independent entity, but only as a marketing vehicle for other Disney brands. It wasn't always this way.
    I see it from another angle. If the ride is good and there is enough plot for a movie, its like leaving money on the table to NOT produce a successful movie with the property. If enough people see the movie, they would want to go on the ride based version of the movie. Thus, Disney is earning much more money than before and they are getting a different demographic to the parks.

    Think of all the people who have visited Universal's Harry Potter attraction. These people would never have considered visiting Universal's IOA. Then again, this particular attraction would never have been conceived without the property. IT is a true win-win in this regard.

    Certainly, Disney could come up with an original attraction first. If we keep saying it should be comparable to Pirates and Haunted Mansion, then to me the movie is already in the can. They WILL make the movie. POTC going to the 4th sequel suggests movies and attractions are complementary. You cannot put the genie back into the bottle.

  3. #18

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    I see it from another angle. If the ride is good and there is enough plot for a movie, its like leaving money on the table to NOT produce a successful movie with the property. If enough people see the movie, they would want to go on the ride based version of the movie. Thus, Disney is earning much more money than before and they are getting a different demographic to the parks.
    Ah, yes, money and demographics. The only good reasons to do anything.

    Certainly, Disney could come up with an original attraction first. If we keep saying it should be comparable to Pirates and Haunted Mansion, then to me the movie is already in the can. They WILL make the movie. POTC going to the 4th sequel suggests movies and attractions are complementary. You cannot put the genie back into the bottle.
    Movies and attractions have always been complementary. I don't think anyone will disagree w/ you there. But nowadays, it seems as though every single attraction must be based on a movie and only the most recent and/or most successful movies. Someone recently coined a term for this: the three P's model. Everything nowadays is either pirates, princesses, or Pixar. That thinking has turned what used to be a magic kingdom for young and old alike into a kiddie park w/ fancy sets. Now, if that's all Disney wants DL to be, hey, I'll gladly accept that I'm no longer the target audience and take my money elsewhere. In fact, I already am, along w/ several people I know.
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  4. #19

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway Guru View Post
    Ah, yes, money and demographics. The only good reasons to do anything. .
    As opposed to ....


    Movies and attractions have always been complementary. I don't think anyone will disagree w/ you there. But nowadays, it seems as though every single attraction must be based on a movie and only the most recent and/or most successful movies. Someone recently coined a term for this: the three P's model. Everything nowadays is either pirates, princesses, or Pixar. That thinking has turned what used to be a magic kingdom for young and old alike into a kiddie park w/ fancy sets. Now, if that's all Disney wants DL to be, hey, I'll gladly accept that I'm no longer the target audience and take my money elsewhere. In fact, I already am, along w/ several people I know.
    As opposed to ....

    People like the attractions like POTC and HM. The movie is almost a side show in this respect. In other words, turn the phrase around "But nowadays, it seems as though every single movie must be based on an attraction" Or a video game, or a illustrated graphic novel, or a comic book, or a vampire love story, or a sequel, or a vintage television show, or a zombie, or Jane Austin, or Jane Austin and zombies, or facebook, or etc...

  5. #20

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    ^Dreams and Magic.....duh















  6. #21

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    ^^ LOL!!! Magic is our currency and dreams are the demographic

  7. #22

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    People like the attractions like POTC and HM. The movie is almost a side show in this respect. In other words, turn the phrase around "But nowadays, it seems as though every single movie must be based on an attraction" Or a video game, or a illustrated graphic novel, or a comic book, or a vampire love story, or a sequel, or a vintage television show, or a zombie, or Jane Austin, or Jane Austin and zombies, or facebook, or etc.
    I'd be happy w/ that kind of a range. In Walt's time, he had attractions based on successful movies, flops, inspired by but not directly based on a movie, based on no movie at all, based on classic literature w/ no movie tie in, and based on history. That kind of creative variety made DL what it was 30 years ago. No more. In the last 15 years, this has been narrowed to two choices: based on recently released movie or based on wildly successful movie from a few years back.

    While we're on the subject, anyone else think this discussion sounds very familiar? Oh, yeah, we had it six weeks ago. Same arguments made and everything. Read it here.

    While you're at it, read this: Fanboyism and Brand Loyalty. You might learn something.
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  8. #23

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    Another thing people should learn about this issue:

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway Guru View Post
    When the main objective is marketing, all other priorities change. There's less room for originality in attraction design. Lands that were intended to be real places become mere backdrops on which to hang the current marketing message. Suspension of disbelief is discouraged, since losing oneself too much in the environment might distract from the "real" message of marketing. The house is papered w/ cheap AP's to encourage people to view the message over and over again.

    In short, the park no longer exists for its own sake; it's just one more vehicle Disney uses to promote its filmed product. That, more than anything else, is the real tragedy of the last 15 years.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  9. #24

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    Originally Splash Mountain was going to be themed to another movie...the Touchstone film "Splash". That's why it's called Splash Mountain. (I'm not making this up, I actually read about it somewhere!)
    I believe it was called Zip-A-Dee River Run first but then Michael Eisner (synergy) wanted to name it Splash Mountain and put some elements of the Film in it like a Daryl Hannah mermaid. The Imagineers dismissed that idea but the name kind of stuck with them.

    On to the OP. Anything for DCA Phase One will be based on movies because that is what will draw people in, saying there is a Cars ride is a way of getting fans of the film to go to the parks. Anything beyond 2012 we could be seeing some original rides whether E-Ticket or not. But if they are E ticket rides they will need to offer something guests have never seen before.

  10. #25

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    Marketing.... Another evil word.. Sigh, and it has nothing to do with my point. It is possible to talk about demographics without invoking that word.

    And nice fanboy article, sigh. What we are discussing is not about competing brands.

    We have discussed this subject in various incarnations, but I thought we were going in a different direction.

  11. #26

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    I always wonder why is Disney soooo obsessed with movie based attractions now? Yes, I know, the big S word, but what I mean is when they open like Nemo Subs for example, do they REALLY see a big increase in DVD sales for example. Do merchandising really shoot up. Is there a real effect they can gauge to know if these attractions have the same effect as a movie does? I guess it does, but I never seen an annual report for instance that states due to the opening of Toy Story Mania, the DVD sales shot up this much, merchandise rose this much, etc, etc. We all know attendance shoots up when these attractions are added, but what does it do for other revenue streams?

    Or is because the ride has automatic name recognition, they think it will be easier to just market the ride and make it popular? Again, sure, that's a no brainer, but JUST as many non-films become just as popular, regardless what the storyline or character is there. People just respond to a good theme park ride at the end of the day and word of mouth carries it. And because its just so easy to advertise and to get word out with the internet and sites like this, its not like there is some big $100 million dollar ride with hardly any attention sitting alone in these parks because people dont know the storylines. Every major attraction, brand and non-brand becomes just as popular as the OP proves.

    So what is it? Does it really does drive sales, easy to just market the ride or both? And if sales is not a factor, they have more than enough popular attractions without a movie attached to know its the content FIRST, known brand second that matters anyway. If that was the case, Pooh would have the 90 min waits and Splash Mountain would get 5-10 mins all year.

    But its the sign of the times I guess. And I said this in another thread concerning DCA and I said we will never get another Cali based attraction again, partly because of this trend! Besides the fact they havent built one SINCE opening,the park has gone Pixar and film crazy. And its not exactly easy to throw a character in a Cali based attraction without coming off cheesy. And they have replaced many Cali based rides/shows for toon brands now (even a Calif based restaurant was replaced for Ariel and friends). So, I agree original attractions are JUST as good as business as the others, but that doesnt register as much as it use to.

    But to be FAIR, non-brand attractions are built all the time with rides like Space, Everest, TDS attractions, future HKDL expansion rides and Shanghai supposedly will have a lot of original rides. But its Anaheim that seems to be getting less and less for some reason out of most of the resorts.

  12. #27

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldDisney View Post
    I always wonder why is Disney soooo obsessed with movie based attractions now?
    It's not just now.

    For the last quarter century, they've thought movie-based attractions are what Disneyland is all about.



    "Disneyland is about translating movies into attractions."
    -- Michael Eisner
    Disneyland: Legends and Secrets



    It's a corporate mindset that isn't going to change any time soon.




    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  13. #28

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    I would argue it is easier to develop the attraction in the front end. You're merely talking about the back end. I don't think movie sales is the issue. It is more about admission sales. Think of a theme park as a theater in terms of business model.

  14. #29

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Think of a theme park as a theater in terms of business model.
    Nice fantasy. The reality is that the Company thinks of it as a marketing mall with rides.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  15. #30

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    Re: Why Original Attractions Are Good For Business

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    I would argue it is easier to develop the attraction in the front end. You're merely talking about the back end. I don't think movie sales is the issue. It is more about admission sales. Think of a theme park as a theater in terms of business model.
    Oh, but movie sales are the issue and have been for years. Eisner had a synergistic vision for the Disney company in which all parts of the company, including the parks, must "pull their weight" in promoting other company product. Thus, attractions which are not character based must become so, either by being made into movies or by having characters retconned into them (or, in the case of Pirates, both).

    You may not know it, but your theater analogy actually originated w/ Walt and was developed by Van France. I only wish the company did more than pay lip service to it, but they haven't for years.

    But you know what? I had this same argument six weeks ago. You seem to enjoy and accept whatever Disney throws your way, and that's fine. I have different standards, which is why I haven't been to the park in a couple years now and can't seem to find a reason to go.
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