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  1. #16

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    The Castle reference was referring to them placing it there for the purpose of drawing people farther into the park. Similar to the Mountain rides that can be seen from far away. I was saying that the idea of reducing the statue to simply being too reliant on another park, is as absurd as the idea that without the castle people wouldn't travel beyond Main st. Just because they serve one purpose does not mean that's their only attribute. It is still its own attraction, with its own identity. The statues having a tie to each other brings the two parks together. It is the same resort after all. Telling Walt's story this way, seeing as he has such a strong tie to California, not only reinforces the original theme of the park, but perfects the idea they had when it opened 10 years. It is its own thing for this very reason. The second you base a park on anything real, there's going to be historical element involved. You're free to not like the concept as a whole, but it certainly doesn't weaken the experience or the parks merits as an independent creation. This leading guest to Hollywood, Condor Flats, Carsland etc, is actually one of the most clear and cohesive stories they've told with a park design. One that certainly stands on its own.

  2. #17

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    The Castle reference was referring to them placing it there for the purpose of drawing people farther into the park. Similar to the Mountain rides that can be seen from far away. I was saying that the idea of reducing the statue to simply being too reliant on another park, is as absurd as the idea that without the castle people wouldn't travel beyond Main st. Just because they serve one purpose does not mean that's their only attribute. It is still its own attraction, with its own identity.
    Still do not see what you are getting at with this. What does attracting people have to do with anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    The statues having a tie to each other brings the two parks together. It is the same resort after all. Telling Walt's story this way, seeing as he has such a strong tie to California, not only reinforces the original theme of the park, but perfects the idea they had when it opened 10 years. It is its own thing for this very reason.
    Except it is not really telling the story of Walt Disney in 1920s Los Angeles. It is a bunch of names associated with his work in an architectural style.

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    The second you base a park on anything real, there's going to be historical element involved.
    They are already evoking bits of historicism. Disneyland is full of historical eleemnts that were fused to create a new and resounding cultural image.

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    You're free to not like the concept as a whole, but it certainly doesn't weaken the experience or the parks merits as an independent creation.This leading guest to Hollywood, Condor Flats, Carsland etc, is actually one of the most clear and cohesive stories they've told with a park design. One that certainly stands on its own.
    I think the park could stand on its own, but I think the emphasis on other works in the Disney empire demonstrate a lack of faith in the abilities of the medium of themed entertainment on Disney's part.

  3. #18

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    I'm sorry, but I had to do it. :P
    Name:  Michael Eisner Statue.jpg
Views: 64
Size:  17.3 KB

  4. #19

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Anyhow I'm looking forward to seeing the new Partners Statue in DCA. I don't think it would be a crutch or unoriginal at all. In concepts I've seen it looks great.

  5. #20

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by SydneyMouse View Post
    I'm sorry, but I had to do it. :P
    Name:  Michael Eisner Statue.jpg
Views: 64
Size:  17.3 KB

    Ha, thank you for breathing life into my artistic vision lol

  6. #21

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Still do not see what you are getting at with this. What does attracting people have to do with anything?

    ....sigh.... I'm saying that because an attraction does ONE thing, that doesn't mean that's its only attribute. As I said already, the statue can be a tribute, while still telling its own story about Walt and Buena Vista St. Which from what I've seen it will do quite well. Having more than one layer to something doesn't have to weaken either one. Many people will come not even getting the tie to the other statue, but only seeing the reference to Walt arriving in California.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Except it is not really telling the story of Walt Disney in 1920s Los Angeles. It is a bunch of names associated with his work in an architectural style.
    Um...wow. okay. That's basically the exact same way Main St did it, only theirs is a much clearer execution. How many people do you think actually know Main St is based on the town Walt grew up in, and that that's why it's included? I can't think of a more relevant opening area for a park called "Disney California Adventure" than the street Disney arrived on when he got to California.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    They are already evoking bits of historicism. Disneyland is full of historical eleemnts that were fused to create a new and resounding cultural image.
    I don't get what you're trying to say here. Sorry.


    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    I think the park could stand on its own, but I think the emphasis on other works in the Disney empire demonstrate a lack of faith in the abilities of the medium of themed entertainment on Disney's part.
    I don't get this argument. You can't make a Disney park without Disney references. They're tying the entrances of the two parks together in a way that other resorts haven't done, and it seems like a very clear way of including Walt's original idea into the space, but it doesn't sacrifice either parks qualities on their own standing. There's a difference between DCA not being able to be understood without going to Disneyland, which is not the case, and it being a part of a larger whole. The latter is certainly a worth wild effort, and the parks performance lately seems to be proving that.

  7. #22

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    ....sigh.... I'm saying that because an attraction does ONE thing, that doesn't mean that's its only attribute. As I said already, the statue can be a tribute, while still telling its own story about Walt and Buena Vista St. Which from what I've seen it will do quite well. Having more than one layer to something doesn't have to weaken either one. Many people will come not even getting the tie to the other statue, but only seeing the reference to Walt arriving in California.
    So what if their are multiple purposes, the primary purpose is its relationship to the one in Disneyland. I highly doubt people will miss out on the obvious similarities between the two statues, as it anachronistically includes Mickey Mouse to carry through this theme.

    Um...wow. okay. That's basically the exact same way Main St did it, only theirs is a much clearer execution. How many people do you think actually know Main St is based on the town Walt grew up in, and that that's why it's included? I can't think of a more relevant opening area for a park called "Disney California Adventure" than the street Disney arrived on when he got to California.
    Main Street, USA is not specifically Marceline or the story of Walt Disney's childhood. It is his reflection on that small town experience synthesized to create a larger cultural model. Yes, it was close to Walt personally but it is not specifically about him or his company, it was about all of us (Americans) and our shared small home town experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    I don't get what you're trying to say here. Sorry.
    The historical elements are already present. The Pan Pacific Auditorium was a real place. The Carthay Circle Theatre was a real place. Real places are already evoked in many Disney parks. Hollywood Boulevard and Sunset Boulevard at the Disney-MGM Studios are composed almost exclusively of facades derived from real buildings, all synthesized to create a series of iconic landmarks intended to create the impression the "Hollywood that never was and always will be". Reality and history have been major components in Disney's themed building program for years and has not been totally snuffed.

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    I don't get this argument. You can't make a Disney park without Disney references. They're tying the entrances of the two parks together in a way that other resorts haven't done, and it seems like a very clear way of including Walt's original idea into the space, but it doesn't sacrifice either parks qualities on their own standing. There's a difference between DCA not being able to be understood without going to Disneyland, which is not the case, and it being a part of a larger whole. The latter is certainly a worth wild effort, and the parks performance lately seems to be proving that.
    Where is it written that a Disney park must reference an existing work of The Walt Disney Company? References have always been present, but only recently have they become a requirement. A reference is also a small element, not an essential building block. To truly understand Buena Vista Street one needs to know more then just an idea of old Los Angeles, experiencing Disneyland and knowledge of Disney history are required to fully be aware of what is currently known about the project. That is not the park standing on its own, that is it being built of past Disney experiences.

  8. #23

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Where is it written that a Disney park must reference an existing work of The Walt Disney Company? References have always been present, but only recently have they become a requirement. A reference is also a small element, not an essential building block. To truly understand Buena Vista Street one needs to know more then just an idea of old Los Angeles, experiencing Disneyland and knowledge of Disney history are required to fully be aware of what is currently known about the project. That is not the park standing on its own, that is it being built of past Disney experiences.
    Just because something isn't dumbed down and requires some basic foreknowledge does not mean it doesn't stand on it's own. It means it's aiming for a more informed, intelligent audience. The same thing could be said of a lot of what Disney's doing lately that people complain about. People say Mermaid doesn't fit into Paradise Pier, when they are just exposing their complete ignorance of the mythological references that have always been present in seaside amusement parks. People complain that WOC lacks because it doens't have story, and yet they are ignorant of the artistry of abstract story telling, and the fact that it's a display show like fireworks, not a stage show like F!. Buena Vista St does not weaken its experience if you've never been to Disneyland. What they've done with this park is create a "Here's how it all began" park, which is a completely relevant idea. It is safe to assume that most will know there are other theme parks when they enter DCA. It is also safe to assume most will know that Walt Disney created them. Having a ONE land out of all their parks about how he began that journey, in a park themed after the state he journeyed in is not only a more original idea for the park, but one that stands completely on its own because of that originality. Guests who aren't so informed should at the very least get that they're in old school LA, and that this is a California themed park, so we're starting here. Having a statue that tribute's the person who started it all bookends the two parks, yes, but will not seem any less legitimate if you don't know of the other. And by your own admition, most people will get the reference. It's through this concept that they're developing their own experience. The rest of park does no more "relying on" or "referencing" than any other. It's just one statue in one land, and it fits perfectly with the concept for the park. All these theme parks and we can't have one land about the man who started them? My question is: Why didn't this happen sooner?

  9. #24

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    Just because something isn't dumbed down and requires some basic foreknowledge does not mean it doesn't stand on it's own. It means it's aiming for a more informed, intelligent audience.
    A successful design will properly communicate itself to the uninformed and reveal more to those who know more. The Haunted Mansion is easily communicated as a haunted house, but to those who study ghost stories and all of the other topics present, there is a huge depth. That is the result of knowledgable men who, in collecting so much specific information, created a larger synthesis that spoke to the larger population. There was no deliberate attempt to build an experience just around knowledge of specific stories and tales. Buena Vista Street is being advertised as a place built around the early history of the Walt Disney Studios. That speaks to Disney fans, and seems to help counter the tounge-in-cheek anti-Disney tones of Disney's California Adventure as it opened, but how do the speak to larger cultural archetypes, ideas and feelings?

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    What they've done with this park is create a "Here's how it all began" park, which is a completely relevant idea. It is safe to assume that most will know there are other theme parks when they enter DCA. It is also safe to assume most will know that Walt Disney created them. Having a ONE land out of all their parks about how he began that journey, in a park themed after the state he journeyed in is not only a more original idea for the park, but one that stands completely on its own because of that originality. Guests who aren't so informed should at the very least get that they're in old school LA, and that this is a California themed park, so we're starting here.
    How can it be "Here's how it all began" and yet totally isolated from the other theme park directly across the street? The idea being original is distinct from it being dependent. How can you say something started if you do not mention what started? And even then, Los Angeles was not populated by characters created by Disney while here in California. Mickey Mouse does not even enter the scene until the end of the decade.

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    Having a statue that tribute's the person who started it all bookends the two parks, yes, but will not seem any less legitimate if you don't know of the other.
    How does the statue bookend and remain totally independent? You cannot have it both ways. Either the park is pulling heavily from past works of Disney or it is not. Bookending would mean there is something at the other end and content in the middle to which this end is connected.

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
    All these theme parks and we can't have one land about the man who started them? My question is: Why didn't this happen sooner?
    Walt Disney was personally involved in the creation of Disneyland, it is an entire park that speaks about him. The connection between the Cardinal Realms of Disneyland is Walt Disney's personal affection for those topics.

  10. #25

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Holy crap... I cannot follow that... I am so lost now... I feel like you both forgot why you were arguing to begin with....

    but I am excited for the statue and I think it would be neat if it was lined up to exactly where the other partners statue is almost like young walt looking through the looking glass and seeing his future...

  11. #26

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by CSei2011 View Post
    Holy crap... I cannot follow that... I am so lost now... I feel like you both forgot why you were arguing to begin with....
    I am well aware of what and why I am arguing.

  12. #27

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by CSei2011 View Post
    Holy crap... I cannot follow that... I am so lost now... I feel like you both forgot why you were arguing to begin with....

    but I am excited for the statue and I think it would be neat if it was lined up to exactly where the other partners statue is almost like young walt looking through the looking glass and seeing his future...

    Add me to the "What the hell just happened?" bandwagon.

  13. #28

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by noleafclover1980 View Post
    I imagined a statue of Mike Eisner and a sack of money.

  14. #29

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    You know what'd be a nice tribute somewhere in BVS... SOME mention of Ub Iwerks somewhere on it. I doubt it'd happen, but it'd be nice if Disney would recognize the guy who actually created Mickey Mouse and animated the early shorts in SOME fashion.

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    Re: Has the 'Partners' statue been confirmed for California Adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    A successful design will properly communicate itself to the uninformed and reveal more to those who know more. The Haunted Mansion is easily communicated as a haunted house, but to those who study ghost stories and all of the other topics present, there is a huge depth. That is the result of knowledgable men who, in collecting so much specific information, created a larger synthesis that spoke to the larger population. There was no deliberate attempt to build an experience just around knowledge of specific stories and tales. Buena Vista Street is being advertised as a place built around the early history of the Walt Disney Studios. That speaks to Disney fans, and seems to help counter the tounge-in-cheek anti-Disney tones of Disney's California Adventure as it opened, but how do the speak to larger cultural archetypes, ideas and feelings?

    ...
    Not trying to get too far off-topic, but I disagree. You make a very valid point in the difference between surface-level and deeper-level theming, but in my opinion Buena Vista Street has both. To appreciate BVS won't, I suspect, require an in depth knowledge of all the names and historical figures from Walt's lifetime, because the land will communicate just fine without them. All the concept art I've seen speaks very, very clearly of a 1920s/1930s Los Angeles, which is something many Americans will recognize whether they know about Walt Disney or not... just as those same Americans could probably identify Main Street USA as a turn of the century American town. As an aspiring urban designer who has studied the problems LA has developed over the past 50-60 years, I can honestly say that walking down that street of clanging street cars and pristine art deco architecture will be a dream come true, even if I leave Walt's life out of the equation. Of course, those who are familiar with his personal history will get a kick out of the shop names and historical references, just as they probably get a kick out of the windows on Main Street. But that, as you said, provides an added layer of depth that simply expands the meaning of the theme, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    So with that said, I'm very much looking forward to the statue.


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