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  1. #136

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by WED View Post
    Manhattan: An area representing an idealized 60s New York, telling the modern legends of superheroes such as Spider-Man, the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, etc. This would be the flagship land because so much of Marvel would take place here. Can also work an Incredibles ride in. Would love to see little touches like alligators in the sewers and small urban myths like that. Opportunity for high end dining and "Mad Men" fashions on costumes. Little nods to the 1964 world's fair (coming soon!) could be worked in.
    If there is a New York area, it should include Ebbet's Field.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  2. #137

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    After being burned badly by DCA opening as a small park with cheap experiences, they know they have to go big on the third park. Especially because it's a ways away from Disneyland and park-hopping will be difficult.

    But they aren't going to go big there until they own the entire block. Disney has to buy up and condemn the many apartments that surround the property on that superblock bounded by Harbor, Katella, Haster and Orangewood. And that is going to be one UGLY process to pull off.

    Disney will have to buy up the properties, and then evict the residents. The residents are primarly working class and lower class folks, most of whom are immigrants who have little English skills. The ACLU and other Immigrants rights group will swoop in within four seconds to defend these folks, and the media will jump on the story quickly as big, evil Corporate Disney kicks out and evicts poor, struggling immigrant families who have no where else to go. It won't matter how generous the moving allowance is, or how much extra money Disney offers, or how legally sound the action is in the first place. It will be a PR disaster, and the media will be happy to blow it up into a huge deal.

    Just look at the problems the Great Wolf Lodge is having getting its hotel built nearby in Garden Grove; they've got less than a dozen renters in an old mobile home park who refuse to move even though they were offered big financial packages, and they've got a lawyer and are suing and blocking the hotel from being built. A half dozen residents of a crumbling mobile home park. There's over a hundred apartments ringing the Third Theme Park property, and that will be very ugly!

    Disney can't win here in the court of public opinion and media-frenzy, and they probably will hold off from ever developing that property because of it.

  3. #138

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Westsider View Post
    Disney will have to buy up the properties, and then evict the residents. The residents are primarly working class and lower class folks, most of whom are immigrants who have little English skills. The ACLU and other Immigrants rights group will swoop in within four seconds to defend these folks, and the media will jump on the story quickly as big, evil Corporate Disney kicks out and evicts poor, struggling immigrant families who have no where else to go. It won't matter how generous the moving allowance is, or how much extra money Disney offers, or how legally sound the action is in the first place. It will be a PR disaster, and the media will be happy to blow it up into a huge deal.
    It's been done before. Look at Chavez Ravine in the 50's. Now there is a beautiful ballpark there to show for it. If Disney wants to, they can do it.

    "If you put your mind to it you can accomplish anything" - Emmett Brown.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  4. #139

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    I like the legends/myths ideas. However, I would do it a bit differently based on the successful archtypes of DL.

    1. Olympus (Greek and Mediterainian Theming as a substitute for the castle/european archtype of Fantasyland): In the middle of the park I would put Olympus with Mt. Olympus rising as the centerpiece. There would be a major attraction inside the mountain. Theming would be a lot like the mediterainan theming at TDS.

    2. Atlantis (Jules Vern/Atlantis/20,000 Leagues under the Sea/Journey to the Center of the Earth Theming)(A substitute instead of a frontierland/discovery archtype): Your Legendary Bay idea is a lot like the Discovery Bay and Mysterious Islands concepts from TDS. Yes, I agree there are perfect opportunities for cloning from TDS here with some original ideas taken from the movie Atlantis or 20,000 leagues under the sea and Jules Vern novels. Give it a real Jules Vern/retro-technology theme.

    3. Pandora (Mthological Nature/Jungle Theme)(Is a substitute for a jungle theme/adventureland archtype). As much as I did not necessarily love the movie Avatar, I do think it is going to be a good move for Disney in the long run. I can't think of a more immersive environment created on the silver screen, ever (though middle earth and the star wars universe would be a close second). I like this concept and would provide cloning opportunities from AK. Think a spin on a jungle theme.

    4. Asgard (Space/Superhero)(Is a substitute for a future/space or tommorrowland archtype as well as the kinghts/castle theme). I don't love the Manhattan idea. Manhattan sounds too much like DHS or DCA. It sounds like muppets and broadway and the like and seems out of place. Theming should rather look like futuristic castles more like asgard from the Thor movie, not like downtown New York. I think you could take marvel superheroes and put them against that kind of theming as opposed to a bustling modern city. You could also add other non-marvel attractions as well. You could still see cityscapes in the rides if you had a superhero ride, but not outside.

    5. Forbidden City (Asian Theme). Asian myths and Asian-type rides and attractions. Think Japan and China in worldshowcase meets major thrill rides like at DisneySea. Substitute this as the "novel" archtype you see at toontown.

    6. Neverland: I would opt for a neverland instead of the mermaid lagoon TDS; there is a lot more you could do with a generic neverland theme...pirates, indians, jungles, forests, mermaids, fairies, etc.

  5. #140

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Westsider View Post
    After being burned badly by DCA opening as a small park with cheap experiences, they know they have to go big on the third park. Especially because it's a ways away from Disneyland and park-hopping will be difficult.

    But they aren't going to go big there until they own the entire block. Disney has to buy up and condemn the many apartments that surround the property on that superblock bounded by Harbor, Katella, Haster and Orangewood. And that is going to be one UGLY process to pull off.
    I agree Westsider........ but I thought there were already rumblings that the WDC had already purchased "some" hotels in the area and even some of the apartment blocs surrounding the Strawberry Fields/Toy Story lot....... Or at least that the titles on some of the properties surrounding the DLR had recently changed hands.........

    If they're rental units, isn't simply a matter of waiting until they have obtained all the properties under "shell" companies and then non-renew the leases to the renters? Of course, once they do this, the cat is out of the bag and the media comes in..... But I would imagine all they would have to do is non-renew the leases and leaves the units unoccupied until the final lease expires. I was unaware that a landlord has any obligation to renew a lease in which the occupant has no financial interest.

    Because the Great Wolf property is a mobile home park, don't the individual occupants own the mobile home and lease the site from the park's owners?

    But I agree, unless Disney owns ALL the "block", it could get very ugly....... The City of Anaheim is NOT going to get their hands dirty using eminent domain after the PR fiasco from the last low-cost housing project w/in the resort district.......

  6. #141

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by SteedLego View Post
    I don't love the Manhattan idea. Manhattan sounds too much like DHS or DCA. It sounds like muppets and broadway and the like and seems out of place. Theming should rather look like futuristic castles more like asgard from the Thor movie, not like downtown New York. I think you could take marvel superheroes and put them against that kind of theming as opposed to a bustling modern city. You could also add other non-marvel attractions as well. You could still see cityscapes in the rides if you had a superhero ride, but not outside.
    I like your extensions/ideas. However, I do think they could pull of Manhattan. There is a danger of it being too "modern" and thus uninteresting which is why the key is that it has to be period, which is why said it would be set to the idealized 60s. The 60s of course represent the explosion of Marvel's comic book characters. It would need to be way better than what DCA or DHS does with Hollywood. Think more American Waterfront at DisneySea but greater in scale: an Empire State Building or Baxter building the size of Cinderella castle.

    The thing is, you can't do Marvel right without New York. You just can't. 99% of their characters are based in New York. You could get some fringe characters without New York (Thor, Namor, and Iron Man I suppose) but if you want Spider-Man or the Fantastic Four or Daredevil or the Avengers or Xavier's School you need New York if you're going to do it right. Marvel without New York is like a Disneyland without a Fantasyland.

  7. #142

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Personally, I'm not big on the whole Marvel idea for an entire theme park, but whatever happens, I hope Disney buys up those seedy motels near the corner of Katella and Harbor, and while they're at it, snatch up the Radisson property as well.

  8. #143

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by WED View Post
    Disney Legends Park [working title]
    A park celebrating the heroes and legends of the world, past, present, and future.

    Ancient Greece: An area that looks like Ancient Greece/Rome telling the legends of the Greek/Roman Gods. Beautiful, peaceful, many dark ride opportunities. Can throw in a Hercules ride or something for the kids.
    Manhattan: An area representing an idealized 60s New York, telling the modern legends of superheroes such as Spider-Man, the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, etc. This would be the flagship land because so much of Marvel would take place here. Can also work an Incredibles ride in. Would love to see little touches like alligators in the sewers and small urban myths like that. Opportunity for high end dining and "Mad Men" fashions on costumes. Little nods to the 1964 world's fair (coming soon!) could be worked in.
    Legendary Bay: A nautical area focusing on legends of the sea. Atlantis and such. Namor the Sub-Mariner could be included. Some cloning opportunities from Disney Sea are possible (20,000 Leagues cough cough). Could use any Discovery Bay concepts that haven't been poached yet. They've already done Little Mermaid but why not try licensing Studio Ghibli's version (Ponyo) here?
    Great Britain: Not the exact Beastly Kingdom concept from the past, but a land celebrating Dragons, Loch Ness monsters, and other legendary creatures that fit the areas decor. Would be themed to a more realistic historic Great Britain countyside with knights, castles, etc. Could also work Brave, Robin Hood, Sword in the Stone or any other non-princess UK based attractions in here.
    Pandora: If they are intent on working Avatar into CA, it would work best here (personally I think it fits AK but doesn't really work in any other existing Disney property). This would represent alien/otherworldly legends.

    It's marketable, can fit in Marvel, and has scope while maintaining focus. Thank you, I'll be here all week.
    That could easily be a DisneySea. All of those places are on/near water with the exception of Pandora which I am not sure about. Not a clone, but the same concept. I don't quite get the comment about it not being as good as DisneySea. The investment in DisneySea was what made it great. Any concept that ends up becoming a third park needs an investment like that which DisneySea got or it won't work. Some ideas are cheaper, but their results will feel it.
    Last edited by Trevor; 09-29-2011 at 07:02 PM.

  9. #144

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    If they built a third park, it would not compare to disneyland.

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  10. #145

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by MousEars View Post
    If they built a third park, it would not compare to disneyland.
    With that attitude, of course it won't. This is part of the problem why DCA was not successful: people were too busy comparing it to Disneyland. "Oh, it doesn't have enough attractions, it's not 'Disney' enough." Now, I will be the first to admit that DCA had its faults, but it has its gems too: Soarin', Animation (seriously, one of my favorite things to do at DCA), and even Screamin', even though it's not a very well themed attraction, not to mention the stuff that has been added in the remodel! Just because DCA was a flop at first doesn't mean the park #3 will be bad. You have remember: the Eisner age is over, and Bob Iger is not afraid to spend a little bit of money to improve Parks & Resorts (the second highest source of income the company has).

    Look at the secondary gate options from other Disney resorts in the world: would you seriously say the Tokyo DisneySea is not as good as Disneyland? Granted, you probably have not visited it; I know I haven't, but from what I've seen and heard of the place, it is absolutely incredible, and often called one of the best theme parks in the world. Also, think of Epcot. I personally don't think the Future World area is all that great, but World Showcase is astounding. It's a place where people can learn AND have fun - something Disney should try to do more of (and their second attempt at this concept, Disney's Animal Kingdom, was even more successful). Would you honestly say that you would refuse to visit a theme park just because it's not Disneyland? That's being highly close-minded. Disney is company that has mastered the art of storytelling; let them tell us a new story, and may it also be a joy and inspiration to all the world.

    And here are my preferences for the new park, just so they're known:

    No Marvelland. Maybe a couple of Marvel themed attractions, but not a whole dedicated theme park. That's putting their eggs into one basket.

    As much as it pains me to say it, no DisneySea. While Tokyo DisneySea is incredible, it is a totally unique creation that Disney just should not recreate elsewhere; don't steal Japan's thunder.

    No WestCOT. It was a brilliant idea, but sometimes things work out certain ways for a reason. The space is probably just not big enough. I would love to see a World Showcase-like area, though.

    I would love to see a more historical feeling applied to the new park. Disney could do a lot with this. Who wouldn't love to see the signing of the Declaration of Independence, or the siege of a medieval castle, or visit an Egyptian tomb? This is what Disney is all about: telling a story. And getting a fun-filled learning experience? That would be just incredible.

    End of rant. :-)

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