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  1. #61

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    ---------- Post added 07-19-2011 at 11:41 AM ----------

    [/COLOR]
    Disneyland is the 2nd most popular park on the planet, so why would you change that formula?[/QUOTE]

    Actually Disneyland has the largest cumulative attendance of any other theme park. More people have walked through Disneyland in it's 56 year history than any other park on the planet. Making it the 1st most popular park not 2nd.

  2. #62

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    the 3rd park will probably buy some land surrounding the area and use ALL acres to its full potential as far as fitting more stuff and adding more walk routes around the park... if build that way it will be slightly bigger than DCA

    as far as it being a walk.. its not that far from a walk.. but if disney buys the garden walk .. they can build more parking spaces there and build a bridge across the street to get you to the 3rd park(similar to DTD)

    As far as the water park goes if disney ever decides that they want to build one... i think the best location is in the corner of the paradise pier hotel parking lot , because you dont want to use the biggest property u owned to be taken up by a small water park.... Another option is having the water park somewhere on the garden walk property... theres some unused land to the side of that property..

    another great expansion would be to use part of the garden walk for a cool indoor interactive theme park. ( much better than disney quest) once again u can use the unused land to the side of garden walk..

    walking to the garden walk from disneyland would be the same distance as from espn zone to disneyland..

  3. #63

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Mr. Cool......... You obviously don't understand zoning ordinances or the DLR Master Plan that the WDC used to push the City of Anaheim to keep low-cost housing developments out of the resort area..........

    1) the demographics and the weather in So Cal just don't work for a water park. Additionally, Disney would be competing against several other water parks in the area....... the return on investment just doesn't work given the land constraints Disney has w/ the DLR - the land is just too expensive to justify a water park that competes w/ other nearby water parks....... I feel pretty confident that the WDC is not going to spend the $$ to acquire land or use land they presently own for a water park they'll only see revenues from for only half a year - In Orlando, they can do that because they own so much land. In Anaheim, it ain't gonna happen........... unless it's linked to a hotel or DVC...... and is not so much a water park, but a glorified pool - which would cost much less to maintain/operate...... Oh, and the area East of Garden Walk is already zoned by the City of Anaheim for Hotels - it's NOT going to be a water park........

    2) It's not just a matter of just buying land around the DLR, the current owners are very well aware of the value of the land they sit on, it's a matter of willing seller/willing buyer/acceptable price - why do you not think Disney has NOT already bought the land at the Northwest corner of Katella/Harbor behind Carsland? The owners are asking astronomical prices for the land! The same thing goes for ALL the corners on Katella/Harbor - the owners are asking way too much money for the land! Would I like for the DLR to own all that land? Yes! Is it going to happen? No! Walt himself was disappointed at the development that sprouted immediately outside DL's gates, but he couldn't afford to buy any more land - hence, his efforts to disguise his buying in Orlando before the announcement of WDW..........

    Gardenwalk is probably the "bargain" in the DLR area and it will still cost over $100 Million! All the other corners on Harbor/Katella would be so exhorbitantly priced that Disney will just pass on even making an offer........... But again........ Garden Walk is already zoned for hotels/DVC units.......... it's NOT going to EVER become a water park, it's NOT going to EVER become parking, it's NOT going to EVER become any sort of "interactive" anything........ the land has already been zoned for HOTELS & RETAIL............ The City of Anaheim makes too much money off occupancy bed taxes to relent on that zoning ordinance........

    The question has NEVER been about the 3rd Gate......... it's been an issue of transport or otherwise connecting the 3rd Gate to DL/DCA so Disney can control the resort and "theming"...... they don't want their customers walking thru other people's retail development to get to their front door!

    Gardenwalk is presently zoned by the city of Anaheim as retail and hotels/DVC units. There is NOT going to be a water park there - the remaining plots are zoned for hotels, no parking, no indoor interactive theme park...... just hotels....... Disney already owns Pumba to the North and Toy Story to the South....... the City of Anaheim has already zoned those areas (w/ Disney's tacit agreement) for theme parks & retail - just try and imagine if Disney wanted to buy Gardenwalk and re-zone it into a theme park! The City of Anaheim would freak!

    Sorry, you just don't know much about the DLR Master Plan and their tacit agreements w/ the City of Anaheim. If ALL the plots of land you talk about were suddenly available at relatively decent prices, I would think the WDC would snatch them up. But it is precisely because of their proximity to the DLR that those parcels will never be available for any reasonable price.

    The Resort Master Plan has already been submitted to the City of Anaheim. The zoning to accomodate THAT plan has already been approved by the City (although there is some backstory as to how much arm-twisting was involved to get it done)..........

    You're just "imagineering" without really considering how it could be done or how much it might cost..........

    Hakuna matata.............

  4. #64

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    SDJeff is right. Most of these things are planned out and can't be changed easily for the reasons he explained.

    In regard to the land purchases, I've heard rumors that Disney has been buying up the apartment buildings to the south and east of the Toy Story lot. So it sounds like the third gate land will be getting bigger before they build. They may get most of that block, other then existing stuff on Harbor and Katella.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  5. #65

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Well until there is more room there, it definitely WONT be a TDS or a Westcot and like others said it shouldnt be anyway. Those parks are both big, expensive and ambitious, three things they wont be if they build on that property and ALL people will do is compare how they got shortchanged compared to the originals.

    I hope it wont be a water park and probably not. There are so many in the area now and KBF has one a few miles away. And yes most of them dont do well all year anyway.

    I wouldnt have a problem with a Marvel park, BUT I would hope its geared towards the one like Dubai was, less thrills like IOA and more in tone with Disney immersion. But even though people KEEP saying a third park should be Marvel base, I dont think so. That IS a big risk if you focus only on the Marvel brand but you keep the other traditional characters out of it like Mickey, Pixar, etc. So I wouldnt mind it but I dont see it happening at all.

    What I dont get is why do people think it has to be either or?? They can STILL build a traditional Disney theme park, just with a section built specifically for Marvel in it! That likely will be the outcome. In fact if DCA didnt have a Hollywood studios section, they couldve just built a movie park and include a Marvel universe section in it for example. Again, aint that hard kids .

    So I'm GUESSING it will be a traditional Disney park, with a heavy Marvel influence. What that will be, no clue lol. And it could be a decade...or two away so who knows.

    BUT, it would be nice if its a completely new theme not done anywhere like DCA was. But yeah a BETTER one! I wouldve said a Pixar park a few years ago, but that is now DCA basically, so that idea is shot! I STILL say an all animation based park which could include Marvel but may feel too redundant.

    Who knows, but I have a feeling I'll be 60 years old by the time one come around anyway!

  6. #66

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldDisney View Post
    Well until there is more room there, it definitely WONT be a TDS or a Westcot and like others said it shouldnt be anyway. Those parks are both big, expensive and ambitious, three things they wont be if they build on that property and ALL people will do is compare how they got shortchanged compared to the originals.

    I hope it wont be a water park and probably not. There are so many in the area now and KBF has one a few miles away. And yes most of them dont do well all year anyway.

    I wouldnt have a problem with a Marvel park, BUT I would hope its geared towards the one like Dubai was, less thrills like IOA and more in tone with Disney immersion. But even though people KEEP saying a third park should be Marvel base, I dont think so. That IS a big risk if you focus only on the Marvel brand but you keep the other traditional characters out of it like Mickey, Pixar, etc. So I wouldnt mind it but I dont see it happening at all.

    What I dont get is why do people think it has to be either or?? They can STILL build a traditional Disney theme park, just with a section built specifically for Marvel in it! That likely will be the outcome. In fact if DCA didnt have a Hollywood studios section, they couldve just built a movie park and include a Marvel universe section in it for example. Again, aint that hard kids .

    So I'm GUESSING it will be a traditional Disney park, with a heavy Marvel influence. What that will be, no clue lol. And it could be a decade...or two away so who knows.

    BUT, it would be nice if its a completely new theme not done anywhere like DCA was. But yeah a BETTER one! I wouldve said a Pixar park a few years ago, but that is now DCA basically, so that idea is shot! I STILL say an all animation based park which could include Marvel but may feel too redundant.

    Who knows, but I have a feeling I'll be 60 years old by the time one come around anyway!
    I agree, I don't at all think it would be a smart move to build a Marvel park for a number of reasons. But I also think that Marvel could have a big presence in the park. A lot of people seem to be pushing the idea more because they don't want Marvel in DL then because they really think it's a good idea.

    And the thrill park idea is not a very good one either. Both Marvel and too many thrill rides would greatly reduce the target market compared to a traditional DL/MK style park. Those parks are brilliantly aimed at the widest audience possible, really one of the only places that still aims to entertain the whole family at the same time. The third gate needs to do this as well.

    Also, there's an inherent marketing problem with a Marvel park that you see come up in threads over and over. That is that many people inherently think that a Marvel park would be done in a similar manor to other amusement parks. It would take a lot of marketing to educate people that this is a Disney quality Marvel park. Why not just make it easier and market it as a Disney park? This establishes expectations, even though sometimes we may not think they live up to them, it still means a lot to most people regarding this industry.

    Another thing is that it benefits them to use a wide variety of properties in each park. From a business perspective, like Pixar and others, it would benefit them to place Marvel attractions in all of the parks. It makes a lot more sense both because again, this broadens the demographic appeal of each park, not shrink the appeal of one. Disney needs to stay focused on appealing to vacationing families in order to truly establish DLR as a true resort. Think of it this way, if your family has a thrill seeker or a Marvel fan, what Disney wants is for that person to want to go to all the parks. If you have little kids in your family, Disney wants them to want to go to all of the parks.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  7. #67

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    I would love to see a Super Hero" Park

    It would probably be mostly marvel, but would allow other Disney Super Heroes such as the Incredibles and Darkwing Duck
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  8. #68

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I agree, I don't at all think it would be a smart move to build a Marvel park for a number of reasons. But I also think that Marvel could have a big presence in the park. A lot of people seem to be pushing the idea more because they don't want Marvel in DL then because they really think it's a good idea.

    And the thrill park idea is not a very good one either. Both Marvel and too many thrill rides would greatly reduce the target market compared to a traditional DL/MK style park. Those parks are brilliantly aimed at the widest audience possible, really one of the only places that still aims to entertain the whole family at the same time. The third gate needs to do this as well.

    Also, there's an inherent marketing problem with a Marvel park that you see come up in threads over and over. That is that many people inherently think that a Marvel park would be done in a similar manor to other amusement parks. It would take a lot of marketing to educate people that this is a Disney quality Marvel park. Why not just make it easier and market it as a Disney park? This establishes expectations, even though sometimes we may not think they live up to them, it still means a lot to most people regarding this industry.

    Another thing is that it benefits them to use a wide variety of properties in each park. From a business perspective, like Pixar and others, it would benefit them to place Marvel attractions in all of the parks. It makes a lot more sense both because again, this broadens the demographic appeal of each park, not shrink the appeal of one. Disney needs to stay focused on appealing to vacationing families in order to truly establish DLR as a true resort. Think of it this way, if your family has a thrill seeker or a Marvel fan, what Disney wants is for that person to want to go to all the parks. If you have little kids in your family, Disney wants them to want to go to all of the parks.
    Wow its like you read my mind!

    You said exactly what I been thinking this entire time, and stated a bit of course, but I never get when people say, "Give Marvel its own theme park, simple!" There is NOTHING simple about it. I think as you said its just a way to KEEP marvel out of the traditional parks, but the PROBLEM with that is Disney will be marketing to the same people who dont want Marvel in the parks in the first place. So if you cant convince them to have Marvel in a park they already GO to, how are you going to convince them to go to a park that is nothing BUT Marvel???

    This is the issue and its odd more people dont see this dilemma. Sure people will go, Marvel fans, teenagers and people who just like theme parks, but the BULK of Disney fans who go to those parks is because of the mystique and nostalgia of that brand...which Marvel obviously wont have. So like you said, you spread that out to reach as many people as possible. Yes, EVERYONE will complain about Marvel being in DL, but they will go regardless. Disney KNOWS this! You seperate them and throw them in a billion dollar park that has no real attachments to that brand other than the name itself...and partly why DCA failed in the first place, then you alienate WAY more people who would never step in it vs putting them in parks people love already and will gladly give it a chance because its there! And also get rid of this idea by Disney fans that Marvel rides will become like MM and Universal fare with their superheroes (although its really unfair to classify Spiderman that way since people considered it one of the best most creative attractions in any park until HP came along).

    Also thats the POINT of synergy, to mix up all these brands in one area and target multiple demographics. You move Marvel into a traditional Disney park, you simply add another demographic to that model. You make it just a Marvel park, you capture ONLY one demographic basically.

    So I dont REMOTELY seeing them build an all Marvel park for a long time to come. They have to get people use to the idea first, i.e. build attractions in parks to have people test the waters and get use to the idea. I'm not saying an all Marvel park wouldnt work or be sucessful, BUT, to be as sucessful as a Disney park is a big risk. Technically DCA was the #3 most visited park in California in 2001, but it was still seen as a failure. Same could happen for a Marvel park if the bulk of Disney fans avoids it.

    So yeah throwing them in a traditional Disney park, or even a new park with all the other Disney elements people expect to have just makes more sense in terms of marketing, demographics, synergy and perception. Like I said I would probably be fine with an all Marvel theme park IF its a good park of course, I'm sure many would, but not all Disney fans and thats the problem why I dont see it happening anytime soon.
    Last edited by WorldDisney; 07-20-2011 at 09:29 PM.

  9. #69

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    I'm sorry, but DC/Marvel is already being totally milked by Six Flags and Universal. In fact, America's first Intamin ZacSpin is themed to the Green Lantern. I don't think Marvel belongs at Disney
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  10. #70

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Well you shouldve told that to Disney before they spent $4 billion buying it!

    I understand change is hard for some people. But the reality is Marvel is just as much of Disney as Pixar is now. Its not if, but when they start to implement the brand more as they did with Pixar. All we can hope is they do it right and with the quality we expect.

    And I dont think it will be of the MM and Universal fare, but thats something they have to prove to people since so many here are skeptical they cant do anything else with it.

  11. #71

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Scrooge View Post
    Since they don't have the ample room they do in Florida, I think they should bust out the checkbook and go BIG. Jaw-dropping big! Raise the bar!
    Dang, I hope you never get on the Board of Directors......

    The sad truth is that the people who built DCA instead of Westcot, even though most of them are gone now, knew that they didn't need to go "BIG. Jaw-dropping big" to get decent crowds with DCA they just need "good enough".

    There has to be a happy medium, like that partnership that Roy and Walt had, where you spend enough money to create innovative, pleasing rides and park and just thinking throwing money at the park will make everything okay.

    Universal spent $3 billion, maybe $4 to open Islands of Adventure, more since then and they still can't beat DCA so just spending money isn't the answer. I would love to see the books on IoA's profitability.

    The creative types at WDI need more money to work with, but they also need to understand ROI.

  12. #72

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremys View Post
    Dang, I hope you never get on the Board of Directors......

    The sad truth is that the people who built DCA instead of Westcot, even though most of them are gone now, knew that they didn't need to go "BIG. Jaw-dropping big" to get decent crowds with DCA they just need "good enough".

    There has to be a happy medium, like that partnership that Roy and Walt had, where you spend enough money to create innovative, pleasing rides and park and just thinking throwing money at the park will make everything okay.

    Universal spent $3 billion, maybe $4 to open Islands of Adventure, more since then and they still can't beat DCA so just spending money isn't the answer. I would love to see the books on IoA's profitability.

    The creative types at WDI need more money to work with, but they also need to understand ROI.
    ROI and Roy O. were the same difference - he was the one that moderated Walt's spending tendencies.

    Disney still needs to Go Big or Go Home when they finally start on the Third Theme Park, but you don't have to just shovel money at it non-stop to get good results.

    You can Go Big and hold to a budget at the same time, and half of that is nailing down pretty tightly exactly what you are doing at the beginning and exactly how you are doing it. All the sightline and mechanical issues should be figured out before the first hole is dug and the first yard of concrete poured.

    If you get sidetracked making constant changes and plusses after the basic structure has been laid down, the costs balloon dramatically. Because now you are ripping out completed work and starting over in several places.

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  13. #73

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    What' the address to it? I wanna search it on google maps.

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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldDisney View Post
    I understand change is hard for some people. But the reality is Marvel is just as much of Disney as Pixar is now.
    The Marvel = Disney equation makes sense in the way some folks think oil and water go together "because they're both liquid."

    For others, the "change" you're advocating is the kind of change that happens when two trains collide.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


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    Re: Disneyland Resort Third Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The Marvel = Disney equation makes sense in the way some folks think oil and water go together "because they're both liquid."

    For others, the "change" you're advocating is the kind of change that happens when two trains collide.
    No, I just don't think your open to the idea of Marvel coming into Disneyland. What if it fits the theme of the land better than some of the existing attractions do? Why would that be bad for the park? Disneyland can't be the way it was when Walt was around. It needs to grow and change. As of now, Marvel coming to Disneyland is going to happen sooner than many of you think.

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