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  1. #7546

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    I think if The Little Mermaid had opened and resembled any of the Fantasyland dark rides people would have scoffed. Black painted cardboard flat sets and little to no movement in figures.. yes... that would impress you guys.

    Yes there are issues, a better ride system could improve the ride greatly, but I still maintain my point that this ride is better then all the other same style rides in Fantasyland.






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  2. #7547

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    Quote Originally Posted by SoarinMatt View Post
    I'm starting to get frustrated with all the negativity flying around about Cars Land and TLM. This is exactly why DCA is never going to be great in people's eyes. Everyone is going to nitpick on every little detail just because DCA was awful when it first opened.
    I understand your frustration, but I think you might have the cause-and-effect order reversed. "People expressing negativity" is not what causes Disney product to be not great -- not-great Disney product is what causes people to express negativity.

    It's not realistic to expect people who have been disappointed by Disney again and again for over two decades to suddenly jump up and down over DCA 2.0. During the Eisner regime and DCA 1.0, Disney blew its credibility with many loyal fans, and made itself known as a company that could not be counted on to maintain its famous standards of quality, creativity, originality and innovation. Lackluster efforts like Rocket Rods, Winnie the Pooh and Nemo have hardly reversed that impression -- nor has the declining quality of once-unique merchandise and once gold-standard employee training.

    It will take more than megabuck rockwork, Flying Tires and "just okay" rides like TLM to get that credibility back.


    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Analyst View Post
    I think if The Little Mermaid had opened and resembled any of the Fantasyland dark rides people would have scoffed. Black painted cardboard flat sets and little to no movement in figures.. yes... that would impress you guys.

    Yes there are issues, a better ride system could improve the ride greatly, but I still maintain my point that this ride is better then all the other same style rides in Fantasyland.
    What you are missing about the Fantasyland dark rides is the same thing TLM is lacking: soul.

    The appeal of Disneyland's classic dark rides is much, much more than technology. It is soul, ingenuity, use of space, and heart. Commodities that are in short supply in TLM.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 05-09-2012 at 11:44 AM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  3. #7548

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    Quote Originally Posted by SoarinMatt View Post
    I'm starting to get frustrated with all the negativity flying around about Cars Land and TLM. This is exactly why DCA is never going to be great in people's eyes. Everyone is going to nitpick on every little detail just because DCA was awful when it first opened. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to have their own opinion. But when we compare every single attraction in DCA to attractions at Disneyland, we are setting DCA up for failure. Yes, Disneyland is amazing and let's face it: it's nearly impossible to replicate something so perfect. To compare DCA to Disneyland is unfair.

    DCA is far from perfect. We know this. Is it getting better? I think so. Will everyone agree with me? I doubt it. But to judge attractions before they're even open and saying things like "I'm not even going to bother checking out Luigi or Mater" or "RSR looks slow, it's going to suck" is presumptuous and short-sighted. Come on, let's stay positive and hope for the absolute best when DCA 2.0 has it's grand reopening next month.
    +1
    this seems to always be the case on this board.
    and yes, I know its just an opinion and this is an open discussion

  4. #7549

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    I understand the soul argument. It is just, a different, new, modern style I guess... that will take getting used to. I would argue though that TLM has plenty of soul.
    Last edited by MickeyMaxx; 05-09-2012 at 11:22 PM. Reason: Discussing rep.






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  5. #7550

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    Quote Originally Posted by SoarinMatt View Post
    I'm starting to get frustrated with all the negativity flying around about Cars Land and TLM. This is exactly why DCA is never going to be great in people's eyes. Everyone is going to nitpick on every little detail just because DCA was awful when it first opened. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to have their own opinion. But when we compare every single attraction in DCA to attractions at Disneyland, we are setting DCA up for failure. Yes, Disneyland is amazing and let's face it: it's nearly impossible to replicate something so perfect. To compare DCA to Disneyland is unfair.

    DCA is far from perfect. We know this. Is it getting better? I think so. Will everyone agree with me? I doubt it. But to judge attractions before they're even open and saying things like "I'm not even going to bother checking out Luigi or Mater" or "RSR looks slow, it's going to suck" is presumptuous and short-sighted. Come on, let's stay positive and hope for the absolute best when DCA 2.0 has it's grand reopening next month.
    To be fair, its just us Disney nerds nitpicking! TLM is probably 50-50 in terms of what people think about it. It definitely has its problems IMO, but I think most people like it at least.

    As for CL, the overwelming majority is VERY excited for this area! In fact, I'm surprised how many are excited for BVS! And no one has even been in these areas yet, so its no more than just the usual internet nitpicky stuff. We will know the first week how people really feel about it.

    And all that matter is how YOU feel about it! If you like it great! I'm pretty sure the new offerings are going to be big hits overall even if it all wont be winners!

  6. #7551

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    I found a ride system that will shut eveyone up about Luigi's Flying Tires and get rid of those Beach Balls. The only thing is they would need to flip the the entire air hockey table thing verticly like a gaint hand ball court.




  7. #7552

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    I can certainly understand the folks who think that TLM represents something of a missed opportunity. I personally was hoping for a flume ride with at least one drop to add just a touch of thrill to the experience. However, after I rode it for the first time, I made peace with what it is, and I think it succeeds as a family dark ride. My partner, who doesn't follow micechat at all but is still a huge Disneyland fan, thought it was a wonderful addition to the park and that the building was gorgeous. I absolutely love the building, and I love the feeling of walking through Paradise Pier and seeing the people in line and the beautiful lights and the clamshells slowly moving through it. I'm probably in the minority, but I think the DCA building is far superior to the WDW version (although they both work well within their environments.) Of course the story (and particularly the ending) might seem a little rushed to some, but I have personally never found it jarring.

    The bottom line is that this is micechat, and we obsessively devour dozens and even hundreds of clinical photos of the park every week. This leads to obsessive nit-picking that probably wouldn't be nearly as severe (or present at all) if we limited our observation and critique of the parks to only the times that we were actually IN the parks.

    Disney also has that "best of the best" reputation, so if there is even an inkling of declining quality, fans are far too quick to slide down the slippery slope and call for the firing of the person who approved the design of Scuttle's accordion.

    There have been flurries, and sometimes hurricanes, of negative remarks surrounding almost every aspect of this makeover from the very beginning, with Mickey's non-wrap-around-boardwalk to the green beam of the WoC viewing area to the broken arches on the side of TLM to the ADA-approved red car trolley vehicles. Time goes on, the negativity subsides, and everyone forgets what exactly whipped them into a fury in the first place. We're human.

  8. #7553

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Analyst View Post
    I think if The Little Mermaid had opened and resembled any of the Fantasyland dark rides people would have scoffed. Black painted cardboard flat sets and little to no movement in figures.. yes... that would impress you guys.
    Painted plywood has soul. This does not.


  9. #7554

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    Ryancr78 - THANK-YOU for bringing it to light the issues of people obsessively nit-picking the parks. I think your reasoning is right on. It isn't a negative light on anyone, but it is a very clear fact of probably why this happens.

    ---------- Post added 05-09-2012 at 01:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    DCA is not cursed, it's the lack of real talent at WDI and the ever growing corporate mentality which stifles creativity.
    Or, maybe it is the ever growing population of fans for which nothing will ever meet the expectations they have? Sometimes people can be too critical of things causing more harm than good and rather than enjoying what is there, sadly crouched in a corner mumbling about how horrible everything Disney does will never work. It can go both ways...but some people are not willing to make allowances for Disney.

    ---------- Post added 05-09-2012 at 01:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    Painted plywood has soul. This does not.

    You mean this isn't cardboard? Woooah! LOL Thanks for the comparison!

    ---------- Post added 05-09-2012 at 01:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    I think that if they are going to keep the beach balls, they should have some made that look like tumble weeds. They would match the theme and would not look so out of place
    I was thinking the same thing today Baloo. At least the beach balls would be in theme.

  10. #7555

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    I rode TLM for the first time a few weeks ago. I thought the ride itself was slightly below average for a Disney ride. The ride seemed very sterile. I was expecting the building and queue to be better themed. I was surpised that they covered the building in the cheap spray-on stucco like other parts of the park before the makover. It looks like they made no attempt to match the architecture to the San Francisco styled houses across the way. The architecture of the building and queue looks and feels like your average office building lobby...very boring!

  11. #7556

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyland255 View Post
    Or, maybe it is the ever growing population of fans for which nothing will ever meet the expectations they have? Sometimes people can be too critical of things causing more harm than good and rather than enjoying what is there, sadly crouched in a corner mumbling about how horrible everything Disney does will never work. It can go both ways...but some people are not willing to make allowances for Disney.
    Sorry, but... no. The ad hominem fallacy of blaming the customers for the shortcomings of the company is often tried, but never flies. The reality is that Disney established its own high standards in the past, and has since let some of them slide. It is Disney's responsibility to maintain above-premium standards for the above-premium prices they charge. It is not the responsibility of the cash customers to "make allowances" for Disney -- a multi-billion dollar corporation whose profits are up 21%, and whose executives are among the highest paid in the world.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  12. #7557

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    What you are missing about the Fantasyland dark rides is the same thing TLM is lacking: soul.

    The appeal of Disneyland's classic dark rides is much, much more than technology. It is soul, ingenuity, use of space, and heart. Commodities that are in short supply in TLM.
    Exactly, WDI did try very hard with TLM to make a great attraction, and to be honest especially with the after the fact upgrades I feel like they went all out to make it perfect and great as they saw fit...BUT they made it great in the same way an out of touch blockbuster at the movies is great, or they 4th sequel in the long line of great movies. Lots of money and substance but no passion.

    The ride isn't terrible by any means, and to be honest I don't know if every ride at the resort needs to be a classic ride I mean after all a lot of the rides we see in DL today are those that have survived the test time there will always be some B-D tickets to fill up the room that the E tickets leave behind in any given generation. But, the ride is structured very oddly, it has the grandiosity of an E ticket, but the passion/excitement of a B/C ticket. The ride isn't terrible, but it's in a location, with a building, sized and decorated to house and E ticket, but it's just NOT an E ticket. Disney's problem currently is they like to sell EVERY new ride as an E ticket and often its just not (and there's nothing wrong with that but they should sell it as something it's not).

    What's actually wrong with the ride? Personally, I think Omnimover system doesn't work well with the ride and this is the main problem, individual vehicles would be more exciting and slightly faster (which does add to the excitement in FL rides and allows the rider to move along with the pacing of the story, which the Omnimover system does not), or at least they should have made the spaces more enclosed (really the Omnimover system only works in HM because the buckets are so enclosed and the ride is so dark).

  13. #7558

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Sorry, but... no. The ad hominem fallacy of blaming the customers for the shortcomings of the company is often tried, but never flies. The reality is that Disney established its own high standards in the past, and has since let some of them slide. It is Disney's responsibility to maintain above-premium standards for the above-premium prices they charge. It is not the responsibility of the cash customers to "make allowances" for Disney -- a multi-billion dollar corporation whose profits are up 21%, and whose executives are among the highest paid in the world.
    I think what I said was mis-understood or I was not clear. I am not blaming the customers for Disneys short-comings. What I am stating is that maybe the expectations are too high which then make the guest think Disney is not doing their job when in reality they are doing the best with what they have or have come up with.

    It's like having expectations in a relationship. We always have higher expectations of the person were with that that person can never live up to...same thing with the guests and Disney. Some guests have such high expectations that no matter what Disney does, it will never be good enough.

  14. #7559

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    Personaly, I think the TLM is good, but it could be better. I enjoy the ride, but some things bug me about it. For example how they couldn't find a way to make the lights in "Under the Sea" less visible. Also, the ending is very abrupt. I'm not nitpicking, I have heard many people have the same issue. I am, however, sad that people are still hating on DCA. They are trying and they are almost done. Once Cars Land opens and BVS opens we will see a whole new park. I'm keeping an open mind about this.

  15. #7560

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    Re: Disney California Adventure Project Tracker 12

    Watching the new Carsland ad, I was thinking.. It would be fun on June 15th to do a ceremony similar to that commercial to light up Radiator Springs!

    Don'tcha think?







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