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  1. #241

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    There will be more buildings. Some of them taller than the current structure. I'm pretty confident that it will be fine now, but I do see why some would be a little nervous.
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  2. #242

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    I would beg to differ. PFF routinely has a fairly decent sized contingent of boys, many still waiving their light sabers and cheerfully standing in line to talk with princesses. Even doing the may-pole activity. Just as you see plenty of girls at the Jedi Training Academy having just as much fun as the boys while clutching their princess doll or wearing their tiara and sparkly hair. These activities are not just for girls, or just for boys. More of one gender may tend to enjoy it more than the other, but that does not preclude the enjoyment by the other gender without any sort of socio-cultural commentary going on here about gender roles or orientations. Anyone can enjoy any of these activities, especially when presented properly. The new Fantasy Faire area seems to seek to address the over girlification of the PFF area.
    I was going to respond with something very similar to this, but you just did . +1
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  3. #243

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    This is breaking the castle berm of Fantasyland. The drawbridge and the castle is THE entrance to Fantasyland. Yes, there is a garden area in front of the castle. And we do expect Phenomenal Landscaping from Disney.

    HOWEVER, they are destroying the magical entrance to Fantasyland, that being the castle, by expanding to build addional buildings in front of the Castle. (and the proposed drawing of DL is moot, as Walt decided to make the Castle as the Fantasyland Entrance/Gateway.

    As I mentioned before, TL broke it's barrier in the '98 makeover, and it needs to be moved back and cleaned up. This is another example of lands moving too far out.

    Adventureland Entrance and Frontierland Entrance are both fine, and in no way intrude upon the Main Street USA Hub. The TikiRoom does NOT intrude upon the hub, as the Plaza Pavillion is the Hub side, The Tiki Room entrance is on the Adventureland Entrance side, AND HAS BEEN THAT WAY SINCE 1963.

    The same cannot be said of the Carnation Plaza Area which has been themed to Main Street USA Since it was opened! This again is PROOF the Fantasyland, with this proposed redressing, is encroaching TOO FAR into the MAIN STREET USA theme of the Hub area. (and as far as the DL maps "showing it as part of Fantasyland, THAT is obviously just being lazy with printing)

    The Plaza Gardens has NEVER has a Fantasyland theme before, AND THAT Exactly is what this entire topic has been focussing on ~ Fantasyland usurping land from the Main Street USA hub area, WHICH IS in fact CURRENTLY THEMED TO MAIN STREET USA ~ not to Fantasyland. Just open your eyes, and you can plainly see the Main Street USA theme in the Plaza Gardens.

    Enough is enough with screwing up the hub area of Main Street USA!

  4. #244

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    ^wait wait what about enter Fantasyland from the two sides of the castle....or from Pixie Hollow or from the Tomorrowland side of the Matterhorn..or from the Train or Frontierland.....seems like its always had over 6 entrances

  5. #245

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    How about using the money for this Fantasy Faire towards something else needed like say..... TOMORROWLAND!!
    To me, this retrofit is totally not NEEDED. It sounds and looks like a Miller Lite version of the Wizarding World of Harry Potter.....
    Doing this frees up the Fantasyland theatre so that they can either put a new stage show (huge hourly capacity) in, a ride or 2, or even a new sub land. Would you rather they go the route they did at WDW and take out a dark ride to put this in its place?
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  6. #246

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    This is breaking the castle berm of Fantasyland. The drawbridge and the castle is THE entrance to Fantasyland. Yes, there is a garden area in front of the castle. And we do expect Phenomenal Landscaping from Disney.

    HOWEVER, they are destroying the magical entrance to Fantasyland, that being the castle, by expanding to build addional buildings in front of the Castle. (and the proposed drawing of DL is moot, as Walt decided to make the Castle as the Fantasyland Entrance/Gateway.

    As I mentioned before, TL broke it's barrier in the '98 makeover, and it needs to be moved back and cleaned up. This is another example of lands moving too far out.

    Adventureland Entrance and Frontierland Entrance are both fine, and in no way intrude upon the Main Street USA Hub. The TikiRoom does NOT intrude upon the hub, as the Plaza Pavillion is the Hub side, The Tiki Room entrance is on the Adventureland Entrance side, AND HAS BEEN THAT WAY SINCE 1963.

    The same cannot be said of the Carnation Plaza Area which has been themed to Main Street USA Since it was opened! This again is PROOF the Fantasyland, with this proposed redressing, is encroaching TOO FAR into the MAIN STREET USA theme of the Hub area. (and as far as the DL maps "showing it as part of Fantasyland, THAT is obviously just being lazy with printing)

    The Plaza Gardens has NEVER has a Fantasyland theme before, AND THAT Exactly is what this entire topic has been focussing on ~ Fantasyland usurping land from the Main Street USA hub area, WHICH IS in fact CURRENTLY THEMED TO MAIN STREET USA ~ not to Fantasyland. Just open your eyes, and you can plainly see the Main Street USA theme in the Plaza Gardens.

    Enough is enough with screwing up the hub area of Main Street USA!
    Nonsense.

    You can whine and moan all you want about the rethemeing of the area, but nobody is buying that the stage area is part of the hub. You have to walk over the bridge, across the river to get to the stage area, just like you do with the castle, the fort, and Adventureland. The hub is the roundabout itself.

  7. #247

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    ^wait wait what about enter Fantasyland from the two sides of the castle....or from Pixie Hollow or from the Tomorrowland side of the Matterhorn..or from the Train or Frontierland.....seems like its always had over 6 entrances
    Wait, you are actually disputing that Walt's entrance to Fantasyland is the Castle????

    REALLY?!??!?!?!?!

    Don't notice that you are going through the Castle on the side entrances (snow white wishing well and the Plaza Gardens area)? Take a closer look . . . .

    The other ways you mention are moot to this discussion, as those go AROUND the CASTLE. A little DL history for you, When DL originally opened, in order to go to any of the lands, you entered going down Main Street USA, down to the Hub, where you would have a choice of Adventureland, Frontierland, Fantasyland, and Tomorrowland. If you went in to any one of those lands, the only way to get into the other lands was by going back into the Hub and then enter whichever land you want.

    They opened up the back entrances and side entrances, later, in order to improve crowd flow, BUT the CASTLE still remains THE ENTRANCE to fantasyland - they even kept that in mind with the extensive early 80's enhancements to Fantasyland. However it's sad that imagineers in 2011 don't have the same understanding. Something has gone horribly wrong.

  8. #248

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    The plaza area has never had a "theme" really. It's a mish-mash. The castle is sitting there, the same distance of the hub as the Plaza Inn. Tiki Room is not inside Adventureland as you get to it before you get to the lands arched signage. Frontierland's fort entrance plainly visible. The Matterhorn. People Movers and Astro Orbiter... all of this plainly and easily visible from the Plaza area. Even the Monorail. It's a conglomeration, a meeting of themes. It won't stick out like a sort thumb any more than the already existing, and shockingly egregious, thematic intrusions into the area that everyone seems blithely ok with. I'm kind of shocked at how perfectly fine everyone is with the Castle being there intruding on the Plaza theme so disgustingly. It's even visible from the farthest reaches of Main Street in a double thematic intrusion. And even worse, it's a mere turn of 45 degrees to the left or right till you can see a totally different them (Frontierland, Tomorrowland) at the same time. No walls, no visual barriers. And then Disney has the gall and temerity to drive Main Street vehicles up into this area!? Really? This is somehow ok? How on Earth is a turn of the century American town fire engine ok within view of the Enchanted Tiki Room entrance? No wonder the Tiki Gods cause it to rain so frequently... they get so furious every time the Omnibus drives by. And the poor horses. What must they be thinking as they are forced to plod along, dragging all those tourists who seem blind to the fact that Tomorrowland is encroaching on the theme of the Plaza in a way that would make even the most loose-moralled person blanche.
    I have to say, this has got to be one of your best posts, by far, MyCroft!

  9. #249

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    WAIT, what about the secret bathroom?!!!
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  10. #250

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    They opened up the back entrances and side entrances, later, in order to improve crowd flow, BUT the CASTLE still remains THE ENTRANCE to fantasyland - they even kept that in mind with the extensive early 80's enhancements to Fantasyland. However it's sad that imagineers in 2011 don't have the same understanding. Something has gone horribly wrong.
    Your post is contradictory. The castle will still be THE ENTRANCE to Fantasyland, this is just another side entrance. Cool your jets with the "Walt made it, so it's perfect" nonsense.

  11. #251

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    This is breaking the castle berm of Fantasyland. The drawbridge and the castle is THE entrance to Fantasyland.
    The Matterhorn kinda blows a hole in the Fantasyland Berm idea. It's way outside the Castle Walls, so to speak.

  12. #252

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    But... What land is Pixie Hollow in? Certainly not Tomorrowland, even though the exact real estate it occupies was once part of that land (Monsanto House of the Future). Is it part of Main Street? Certainly not. But it is just off the Plaza. Hmmm. Is it a land unto itself? Or is it a piece of Fantasyland that already exists outside the Castle's "berm?" Precedents again.

    Point is, Disneyland is a small park, chocked full to the rafters with rides, shows and attractions. I guess I can forgive Imagineering if they sometimes stretch the rules of theme a bit to shoehorn something new in. So long as the shoehorning is done with style and quality. Especially, as in this case, when the move frees up an enormous hunk of land for something else. Color me optimistic, but I hope this may be the first move in a long rumored Frontierland expansion. For that I'll give up Plaza Gardens.

  13. #253

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigThunder View Post
    But... What land is Pixie Hollow in? Certainly not Tomorrowland, even though the exact real estate it occupies was once part of that land (Monsanto House of the Future). Is it part of Main Street? Certainly not. But it is just off the Plaza. Hmmm. Is it a land unto itself? Or is it a piece of Fantasyland that already exists outside the Castle's "berm?" Precedents again.
    It has already been stated that just because things in the past have broken theme and are begging to be removed, is not justification for more thematic violations. Such justification is the start of the slippery slope that I was alluding to in other posts that can only end with the loss of all theming rules in the park.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  14. #254

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quacky4Donald View Post
    I'd like to buy you another churro or Dole Whip, but unfortunately I was told I can't. So, I'll have to settle with stating this has got to be one of your best posts, by far, MyCroft!
    Amen, Preach it! I second that!!

    MyCroft is absolutely right. The plaza area has never had a "theme". It's technically part of Fantasyland, but is shoehorned between Main Street, Frontierland, and Adventureland. Okay, so it's not "inside" the Castle. So what? Like MyCroft said, it won't stick out any more than the Tiki Room (which isn't inside Adventureland), the Matterhorn (which was put into Fantasyland as an afterthought), the Astro Orbiter (which isn't inside Tomorrowland), the Monorail (which obviously protrudes well into Fantasyland), or Pixie Hollw (which is part of Fantasyland, but not IN Fantasyland, and intrudes into Tomorrowland).

  15. #255

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    Re: New Fantasy Faire Experience coming to Disneyland!

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    It has already been stated that just because things in the past have broken theme and are begging to be removed, is not justification for more thematic violations. Such justification is the start of the slippery slope that I was alluding to in other posts that can only end with the loss of all theming rules in the park.
    Disney is adding an attraction directly next to the castle. It's not as if they're shoving PFF into Main Street's firehouse or setting up a princess shoppe at the Disneyland Railroad station. : sigh :

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