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  1. #61

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by simba View Post
    There are easily 4-5 months in Florida where that kind of weather isn't the case. Mid-October through mid-March are very seasonable. The average high in November is 77, Dec 73, Jan 72, Feb 73, and March 77. Additionally, those months have very little precipitation and the humidity is much more reasonable. Obviously if you can't visit during those months then you'd be stuck with hotter, humid summers, but Orlando is not a year round sticky mess.

    The Fantasyland budget wasn't cut, in fact they added a Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs roller coaster.

    I think what bugs me most about the negativity towards WDW is that most of it is repeated stereotypes rather than legitimate compare and contrast vs. DLR. I personally hate to compare anyway (and I really don't know what purpose is serves). It's like people are not comfortable with the idea of loving BOTH resorts.

    On my most recent visit to WDW, I didn't notice any kind of maintenance issues that were anything worse than what I've seen at DLR. I've seen people on these very forums complaining endlessly about the "little things" that don't get enough attention lately. Somehow, though, as soon as WDW is brought up, DLR mysteriously has none of these issues. The broken wooden slats on the Matterhorn queue and the snowing effect during the lift hill that hasn't consistently worked in years... the wads of gum under the arches in PotC... the endless issues with Madame Leota not floating and the sound in the seance room being out of sync... the wildcat that disappeared from the rock on the DLRR never to return... the unused Peoplemover track...

    My point isn't to malign the DLR. I truly love it. But it just seems like there's a strong bias at times. People want to knock WDW for things that DLR is also "guilty" of, while at the same time they conveniently ignore all the amazing things that WDW has to offer that you can't find anywhere else in the country.
    Whats not to like about being able to get into the parks easier and being able to walk from Splash Mountain to Screamin......for me anyway I like to have everything in one package rather than a huge area like WDW.

    I like being able to just walk out to Downtown Disney....the D23 Convention or just a restaurant out side the parks all in 15 mins or less. Besides that we have the original Pirates and HM two of the best rides EVER. Along with some truly amazing dark rides and of course 5 Mountains (from both parks)

    And we even getting Test Track 2.0 and dont forget WOC and the MUCH better Fantasmic......they may have MORE but its not better and we dont have articles about how our rides (like Splash) are breaking down every few months because of lack of Maintenance.

    In short Disneyland is everything I could want and I can get to anywhere I want in 15 mins making it to me practically perfect in every way.

  2. #62

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    .....they may have MORE but its not better .
    Some things are though.....


    Working Peoplemovers are better than empty PM tracks.

    Astro Jets up high are always nicer than their pathetic ground bound cousins.

    Flumes can't compare to a Fully flooded Small World.

    Country Bears are better than Pooh bears...... heck, even Pooh bears are better than pooh bears

    Swiss Family Treehouse is vastly superior to Tarzans cartoon house.

    40+ Presidents to 1.

    Monorails that actually go to 3 hotels plus the second gate vs Monorail that goes to a Sports Bar and multiplex

    And you'll never convince me that stairs are better than Speedramps......especially in a land that is supposed to be about "tomorrow"
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  3. #63

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by DWD Imagineer View Post
    Whoever on here said it like a sports team. You cheer for your home team and hiss at the competition.
    Maybe to most, but not me. I'm rooting for WDW to really be the best. Not "best" from someone's positive experience, but "best" by quality AND quantity.

    Cast Members really can make the difference and that is something I've learned to put aside because results may and will vary. All of my trips to Walt Disney World I've been faced with a larger majority of BAD UNACCEPTABLE guest service from the theme parks to the hotels with a few pockets of sunshine in between. But that isn't how I'm rating the two resorts. I'm rating them based on how they are built up and how they are maintained and how much we're charged to experience it. Disneyland is just that much more quality for the price you're paying. Walt Disney World is tricking you into quantity but less quality per square mile, as many has already mentioned regarding many parks that aren't even finished or completed.

    If I was truly biased, I would root for my home team California Adventure instead of Tokyo Disney Sea. Simply not the case. I can acknowledge when something is truly something of quality and executed to the best of the company's ability.


    I think nostalgia unfortunately takes over most folks' perceptions but I think quality ultimately is the real judge. There's cartoons that I loved as a kid that I cannot stomach now. That's not nostalgia wining. There are, however, things I loved as a child that I love even more now. That's not nostalgia. That's just a darn good product.

    Walt Disney World is SO close to being truly the amazing gem it deserves to be. They just need to treat it as such.


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  4. #64

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    I agree with Sleepyjeff except for a few things.

    iasw - I prefer the flume. Just because you don't doesn't make it better for everyone.

    Presidents - DL's is better because people don't boo or cheer when they see a president they dont like.

    Monorail - What difference does it make? There's also a monorail in Vegas that stops at the hotels. That doesn't make Vegas any more special than Disneyland.

  5. #65

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    I agree with Sleepyjeff except for a few things.

    iasw - I prefer the flume. Just because you don't doesn't make it better for everyone.

    Presidents - DL's is better because people don't boo or cheer when they see a president they dont like.

    Monorail - What difference does it make? There's also a monorail in Vegas that stops at the hotels. That doesn't make Vegas any more special than Disneyland.
    ...and just because you like a flume or 1 president or the DL monorail doesn't make it better for everyone.

    I think that it all comes down to opinion so unless there is like some scientific fact or number or something out there then nobody can really say if one is better. They can say what they prefer, but that doesn't mean their preferences are wrong.

    Btw, if Robert E Lee watched Great Moments with Mr Lincoln, he'd bee booing the whole time, not just for the president he didn't like

  6. #66

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    ...and just because you like a flume or 1 president or the DL monorail doesn't make it better for everyone.

    I think that it all comes down to opinion so unless there is like some scientific fact or number or something out there then nobody can really say if one is better. They can say what they prefer, but that doesn't mean their preferences are wrong.

    I think that's pretty accurate. There are differences that I enjoy such as Lincoln paving the way to the Hall of Presidents or Splash Mountain at DL being more of a surprise hit and having the improved version in Florida (though I still prefer single aisle logs), and stuff like that.

    Most of the differences I enjoy usually have something to do with historical context though. For example, Florida's Tower of Terror is so much better than California's and it came first! That should not be the case.


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  7. #67

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    I agree with Sleepyjeff except for a few things.

    iasw - I prefer the flume. Just because you don't doesn't make it better for everyone.

    Presidents - DL's is better because people don't boo or cheer when they see a president they dont like.

    Monorail - What difference does it make? There's also a monorail in Vegas that stops at the hotels. That doesn't make Vegas any more special than Disneyland.
    I suppose it really does just come down to personal preference but let me explain why -I- prefer MK's versions of:

    It's a Small World It's not so much that I dislike the flume, it's that I love what the fully flooded show building does at WDW. It reflects all the brightly lit dolls onto the water itself....makes me feel as if I am more a part of the experience rather than just an observer.

    President's I prefer the Grandness of it all....... the boooing I could do without but aside from the one time a member of my own group hissed, it's never been that bothersome to me.

    Monorail It makes a difference to me because I find staying at the Grand Californian Hotel much harder on my feet(even though it's "inside" one theme park and "across" the way from another) than staying at the hotels inside the Walt Disney Resort......besides, I am still ticked, after all these years, that they moved* the Disneyland Hotel so far away from the Monorail Platform




    *Yes, they did move it. Disney lives in the world of perceptions not realities and the perception of the station being moved or the Hotel being moved or both being moved is omnipresent...... regardless of technical facts.
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  8. #68

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    One thing I don't understand (and hopefully never will) are the number of people who have been to no Disney park but DLR, yet feel qualified to pronounce that DL is superior to all other Disney parks, especially WDW. Call me crazy, but I generally look at ignorance as a reason to discount someone's judgement, not celebrate it.

    That said, the article the OP linked to is certainly not written from a position of ignorance, but I find it a bit obvious/pointless. It's ironic because even as a "WDW native," I do believe that there are quite a few things that DLR does better than WDW, but none of them are in this article. Essentially all ten reasons boil down to "DLR is smaller and easier to manage." Umm... OK. Thanks for that. It's also easier to manage a trip to the beach than it is to manage a trip to NYC. NYC isn't supposed to be the beach, and vice versa. Neither is WDW supposed to be DLR.

    If I could set one ground rule for all DLR v. WDW discussions (other than you have to be familiar with both resorts if you're going to criticize one of them) it'd be this: Please judge the square peg of WDW on the merits of what it is and was designed to be, rather than trying to force it into the round hole of DLR and then declaring that WDW sucks because it's not DLR. You're right. WDW isn't DLR. WDW isn't supposed to be DLR. WDW never was supposed to be DLR. WDW never will be DLR. Both resorts offer totally different experiences. If you can only look at one through the lens of the other, you'll miss the best of what each has to offer.

    But in the interest of fairness, I'd like to mention here some ways in which I believe WDW improves on the DLR experience:

    1) WDW does themed design better than DLR. I can already feel the malicious stares from the DLR fan bois crowd as I type this - I know that's something of a bold statement, but please, hear me out. When WDW was built, the WED design staff was able to use all the lessons they had learned in building/expanding/improving/maintaining DL over the last decade and a half. Moreover, at WDW, they had enough land to do what they wanted without being forced to squeeze attractions, queues, and infrastructure into as tight a space as possible. (Btw, those West Coasters who have an issue with all the undeveloped land at WDW that's used as a buffer/"super-berm" need to take that up with Walt - that's one of the few aspects of WDW's design that was personally decided by Walt himself.) Because of this, they were able to implement quite a few design improvements that still generally hold true at WDW.

    The first and most striking of these is the way in which different lands are presented. At WDW, the entry into a land and first view of a land is a very controlled and cinematic experience (much in the same way that Sam described the entry into the Magic Kingdom itself). Moreover, transitions in-between lands were given a new focus in the development of the Magic Kingdom. Whether you're going from Liberty Square to Fantasyland, Adventureland to Frontierland, or just from the Hub to Adventureland, you will experience a gradual transition in ambiance, decor, music, elevation, and walkway texture, culminating in a grand cinematic reveal of the land. (In fairness, there is one transition - Fantasyland to Tomorrowland & vice versa - where this does not hold true. The upcoming FLE promises to improve this.) Contrast this experience with Disneyland where lands are shoehorned next to each other with little to no transition whatsoever between them (an example that sticks out in my mind is how you could easily throw a baseball at the Haunted Mansion while riding Splash Mountain); in many cases it's not uncommon at DL to find lands bleeding into one another. DL is about on par with Universal in this regard.

    Another way in which the themed design improvements bear out is in how WDW presents full attraction experiences as opposed to mere rides. Look at early attractions like PotC or Space Mountain, all the way up to more recent attractions like Toy Story Midway Mania. WDW, in nearly all cases, makes the queue part of the attraction experience, as opposed to DL where the queue usually is simply a switchback in the CA sun. The obvious, notable exception which must be pointed out here is the Indiana Jones Adventure, which is the most complete queue/attraction experience that WDI has ever developed. But this is a glaring exception at DLR. In WDW, the queues are used to draw you into the attraction experience. At DLR, the attractions pretty much stand all on their own. (I find it interesting too that the way FastPass functions at DLR serves to exacerbate this problem. Nearly all FastPass attractions at DLR separate their lines very early in the queue, resulting in backed up switchbacks outside the themed queue at attractions like Indy and Roger Rabbit, and then an extremely quick "run through" the part of the queue that is themed to hold your attention! Doesn't make a whole lot of sense... At WDW, Fastpass and Standby lines usually progress through the entire queue side by side until right at, or shortly before the load area. This gives both lines, but especially Standby which needs it more, the opportunity to view and appreciate the themed queues.)

    The above examples have focused on the MK vs. DL, but Epcot's World Showcase and Animal Kingdom (with the exception of Chester and Hester's) constitute what are undoubtedly some of the best examples of themed design in the country after WWoHP. DLR doesn't have anything even remotely comparable in this regard. Despite refurbing the entire park, DCA is still a convoluted mess of incoherent (and poor) themeing, and suffers from the same issues of no transitions/lands bleeding into one another that DL does.

    2) WDW has classic attractions available nowhere else. Want to see the Country Bear Jamboree in English? WDW's Magic Kingdom is the only place you'll find it. Want to experience Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress? Gotta go to Orlando. Want to ride a PeopleMover operated by Disney? WDW has the only one left on earth that's still operational.

    3) WDW offers totally unique, world-class experiences. I have to laugh at those who say "DLR offers 80% of WDW." No; not even close. Yes, DL has a lot of similar attractions to the MK and some of them are improved. DLR has a few cloned attractions from Epcot, the Studios, and DAK. But saying that DLR can even approximate the experience of Epcot because it has Soarin', Captain EO, Innoventions, and will be getting an attraction based on the Test Track technology is akin to saying that HKDL can offer the same experiences as DL (in fact I would argue it's even more of a stretch than that). Saying that DLR can offer the same experience as DAK because it has It's Tough to be a Bug and the Indiana Jones Adventure is equally absurd. Even the Studios, WDW's worst park and the one that DCA copied from the most, still has the beautifully designed Hollywood Blvd. & Sunset Blvd., a far superior Tower of Terror, and The Great Movie Ride - they're totally unique experiences apart from anything DLR can offer. The themeing of World Showcase and DAK alone are enough reason to visit WDW IMHO.

    4) WDW offers complete immersion. This is something that no other Disney resort can touch WDW on. One of my favorite things about WDW is being able to drive on property and forget about/never see the outside world for an entire week. WDW offers the possibility to totally immerse yourself in a Disney environment 24/7. DLR can't even do that in the parks - go on Mickey's Fun Wheel or Tower of Terror and you're looking at the suburbs of Anaheim. Conversely, it is literally impossible to see the outside world from WDW unless you're in Downtown Disney. WDW, far better than any other Disney resort on the planet, is able to fulfill Walt's desire that guests not "see the world they live in" and "feel they are in another world" for the entirety of their vacation.

    5) WDW has its own special charm and magic. Even as a WDW native, I won't deny that DL (the park, not necessarily the resort) has a special and unique intimacy and charm to it that is unique among Disney parks. It really does add an extra intangible to know that Walt walked through that park in a completed state, and enjoyed some of the existing attractions himself. Additionally, the smaller scale and closer packed areas give DL a special intimacy and "warmness" that is difficult to describe, but every Disney fan who has been to DL knows what I'm talking about. In the same way, WDW has its own special charm and magic that is unique to that resort. Strolling the Boardwalk around Crescent Lake at dusk, boarding the monorail at your resort for your first visit to the MK, walking around World Showcase lagoon right before or after Illuminations... all of these and more are the unique "magical" experiences that WDW offers. I think much of what we consider "magical" is based on our early experiences as children, so doubtless these experiences won't mean as much to someone who grew up on the West Coast, but I do think that if I can appreciate the unique charm and beauty offered by DL, DLP, TDL, TDS, and HKDL; someone who is a "DL native" can also appreciate the unique charm and beauty of WDW, so long as they approach it with an open mind rather than West Coast condescension.

    6) WDW has its own unique and fascinating history. Yes, Walt never walked here when the property was in anything approaching a completed state (but he did walk here), but WDW and the EPCOT project were Walt's last and greatest dreams. It's fascinating to observe and study the ways in which early WDW sought to implement the ideals of the EPCOT project, how the early plans for Lake Buena Vista Village called for an "EPCOT lite" and how EPCOT eventually morphed into EPCOT Center (a fascinating progression that is much more complex than, "The suits didn't want to risk building EPCOT after Walt died so they built a theme park" - this has been documented extensively by Michael Crawford on his site and in Four Decades of Magic). WDW also benefitted tremendously during the early part of the "Eisner era" and this is a fun part of the company's history to study as well.

    7) WDW has much better food and more food options. I'm not gonna say a lot on this because this is possibly the only positive that even the most ardent DLR fans would generally agree with me on. But yeah. There's that.

    8) WDW has a lot more to do. Again, this isn't one to spend a ton of time on as it's rather obvious and self-evident, but there are TONS of things to do at WDW even beyond the parks. Water recreation, golfing, dinner shows (including the classic Hoop-De-Doo Revue), two water parks, the BoardWalk, the Speedway, at least 8 different resorts that are worth exploring and spending time in, Disney Quest. Some people don't like the pressure of having too much to do. If you're trying to do everything at WDW, you're doing it wrong. I love being able to spend a week at WDW and know that there's so many things left for me to enjoy next time. Conversely, when I spend 4-5 days at DLR, by the end, I'm doing lots of things over again (not that I mind repeating my favorite DLR attractions, but at WDW I wouldn't have to do that).

    So take it or leave it, but FWIW that is why I think that WDW is worthy of respect and worth visiting, no matter where you're from.

    Finally, I'm just wondering why West Coasters constantly feel the need to denigrate WDW. Maybe my position as an East Coaster colors my perception of this, but I feel like a portion of the DLR crowd constantly feels the need to yell, "Hey! We're better than you! Especially if you're WDW!!" Honestly, it comes off as some amount of insecurity... If you really believed that, and were confident in it, would you constantly feel the need to write articles, blog posts, and message board postings about how DLR is better than every other resort on the planet? Maybe it's happening and I just haven't noticed it, but I can't find many (if any) East Coasters writing similar types of articles aimed at DLR. Why can't we get along?

    Final (important) postscript: None of the above should in any way be construed as a defense of the mediocre levels of maintenance and cleanliness that WDW has sunk to in the last 17 years. That is a very serious and legitimate complaint against WDW, and one thing that DLR generally does better (sadly, the only resort that really still gets it right is TDLR). In these kinds of discussions, I intentionally try to separate the design of WDW from its current state of maintenance/(mis)management, and the above should be read with that in mind.
    Last edited by PSUMark; 09-13-2011 at 01:27 PM. Reason: wording change for clarification
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  9. #69

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    PSUMark, as well as others who have shared some of your reasons for enjoying WDW, thank you. I would be lying if I said you haven't made me a bit more curious/willing to go there some day. If I do go out there, I may even enjoy it quite a bit, and maybe even grow a lil' bit more room in my heart to have some love for both parks. That being said, I love the west coast. This is my home and always will be. I am not a person who handles major changes well, I get home sick, and I love being near my "roots." If for some reason I had to move to Florida or somewhere near there, I would long for Arizona and Disneyland, even though I am sure I would grow to appreciate FL and WDW. That's just the type of person I am, and I don't think everyone else needs to feel the same way. I don't take all of this too seriously either, it's all in good fun. I in no way mean disrespect or to come off insulting. Perhaps a little competition between the parks is healthy? Keeps up the drive to continue to better each park and to try to develop more unique attractions to set them apart. I can understand how people can love/enjoy both parks. I can understand how some people prefer WDW (and I encounter SEVERAL people who feels this way.) I prefer DL. Can that be okay too? Again, I'm all in the spirit of good fun. I had no intention of trying to "prove" anything, because it truly all boils down to personal preference.
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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by StarDustFairy View Post
    PSUMark, as well as others who have shared some of your reasons for enjoying WDW, thank you. I would be lying if I said you haven't made me a bit more curious/willing to go there some day. If I do go out there, I may even enjoy it quite a bit, and maybe even grow a lil' bit more room in my heart to have some love for both parks. That being said, I love the west coast. This is my home and always will be. I am not a person who handles major changes well, I get home sick, and I love being near my "roots." If for some reason I had to move to Florida or somewhere near there, I would long for Arizona and Disneyland, even though I am sure I would grow to appreciate FL and WDW. That's just the type of person I am, and I don't think everyone else needs to feel the same way. I don't take all of this too seriously either, it's all in good fun. I in no way mean disrespect or to come off insulting. Perhaps a little competition between the parks is healthy? Keeps up the drive to continue to better each park and to try to develop more unique attractions to set them apart. I can understand how people can love/enjoy both parks. I can understand how some people prefer WDW (and I encounter SEVERAL people who feels this way.) I prefer DL. Can that be okay too? Again, I'm all in the spirit of good fun. I had no intention of trying to "prove" anything, because it truly all boils down to personal preference.
    Understood. Please also understand that my post wasn't specifically directed at you or anyone else, but was my response to this thread and these types of threads in general. I wasn't trying to prove that WDW is better; just enumerate some of what I see as its most significant merits. Hopefully it came through in my post that I believe both resorts should be appreciated
    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    Totaly agree PSUmark. The queue is such an important part of the WDW experience in the majority of their rides.

    The place, however, that WDW fell short of making a big theme queue is Epcot. Its very much a switchback line park. Not all are like this but most of them are. They have made changes to that recently, even (SNIFF SNIFF) Imagination.....



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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Some things are though.....


    Working Peoplemovers are better than empty PM tracks.

    Astro Jets up high are always nicer than their pathetic ground bound cousins.

    Flumes can't compare to a Fully flooded Small World.

    Country Bears are better than Pooh bears...... heck, even Pooh bears are better than pooh bears

    Swiss Family Treehouse is vastly superior to Tarzans cartoon house.

    40+ Presidents to 1.

    Monorails that actually go to 3 hotels plus the second gate vs Monorail that goes to a Sports Bar and multiplex

    And you'll never convince me that stairs are better than Speedramps......especially in a land that is supposed to be about "tomorrow"
    Besides the PM......I'm very much ok with them having some classic's...over here at Disneyland we know that most of the rides would leave at one point or another to make room for new rides/attractions.

    But for me I enjoy our HM, Pirates and Mountains more then WDW versions and of course we have Indy, Screamin and like I said before I like the small layout instead of having to drive miles to do anything else.

    If I had to live near one I would stay near Disneyland....near would i switch....WDW is great for a week but I don't need more than a few days every few years

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    This is ridiculous. Of course WDW is a better vacation destination compared to DL. But when it comes to DL vs. MK? Obviously DL wins hands down. It also beats DHS for me.

    Epcot and Animal Kingdom are unique enough to stand on their own, apart from the Magic Kingdoms. DCA is continually getting better and by spring 2012 it should surpass DHS as well. Poor DHS (or MGMS), it used to be my favorite park at WDW and now it's a sad shadow of its former self.

    The hotel resorts are better at WDW, the large size of the resort gives guests a sense of grandeur, reclusiveness, and separation from the outside world. While the transportation may suck, it is an expected predicament for any large sprawling property (refer to LA transit). The rides may be faded and redundant, but there is still magic there that millions of people flock to every year.


    This isn't to say that DL resort isn't exceptional on its own merits. It's small and organized property is convienient, easy to navigate, and made for tourists staying at nearby hotels/convention center. The entire DL area is like a large tourism machine. Independent hotels, the convention center, and DL all work together to offer guests a welcoming and convenient experience. There is an energy about the place that is unlike anything outside the parks at WDW. Their rides are equipped with the latest technologies and often times it's hard to imagine the rides being over a decade old.

    Different resorts, different guests, different experiences.






    But I think DL is better.



    Today, I feel like driving through a cursed temple, taking a tour of a haunted antebellum mansion, plunging down a waterfall in a hollowed-out log, bobsledding down a famous swiss mountain, traveling through the darkest recesses of space, and watching fireworks explode over a fantastical castle.

    Yeah, that sounds fun.

  14. #74

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    well said drewfilmboy, i was at the parks today and happen to talked to a wdw regular and it was there first time coming to the DLR and they were a famliy, and what they told me is that DLR makes WDW feel big and boring.. this coming from a family that goes to WDW all the time. i for one been to wdw alot of times.. and love it! but as i said before wdw wins hands down as a resort get away. but nothing can compare to disneyland the park,

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    Re: 10 Reasons why DL>WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    One thing I don't understand (and hopefully never will) are the number of people who have been to no Disney park but DLR, yet feel qualified to pronounce that DL is superior to all other Disney parks, especially WDW. Call me crazy, but I generally look at ignorance as a reason to discount someone's judgement, not celebrate it.
    Agree. No matter what my stance on the current state of WDW is, I still tell people to see for themselves. And I constantly hear how bad Paris' Walt Disney Studios is, but... the Disney fanatic within will want to see if there's anything worth saving.



    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    But in the interest of fairness, I'd like to mention here some ways in which I believe WDW improves on the DLR experience:

    1) WDW does themed design better than DLR. I can already feel the malicious stares from the DLR fan bois crowd as I type this - I know that's something of a bold statement, but please, hear me out. When WDW was built, the WED design staff was able to use all the lessons they had learned in building/expanding/improving/maintaining DL over the last decade and a half. Moreover, at WDW, they had enough land to do what they wanted without being forced to squeeze attractions, queues, and infrastructure into as tight a space as possible. (Btw, those West Coasters who have an issue with all the undeveloped land at WDW that's used as a buffer/"super-berm" need to take that up with Walt - that's one of the few aspects of WDW's design that was personally decided by Walt himself.) Because of this, they were able to implement quite a few design improvements that still generally hold true at WDW.

    The first and most striking of these is the way in which different lands are presented. At WDW, the entry into a land and first view of a land is a very controlled and cinematic experience (much in the same way that Sam described the entry into the Magic Kingdom itself). Moreover, transitions in-between lands were given a new focus in the development of the Magic Kingdom. Whether you're going from Liberty Square to Fantasyland, Adventureland to Frontierland, or just from the Hub to Adventureland, you will experience a gradual transition in ambiance, decor, music, elevation, and walkway texture, culminating in a grand cinematic reveal of the land. (In fairness, there is one transition - Fantasyland to Tomorrowland & vice versa - where this does not hold true. The upcoming FLE promises to improve this.) Contrast this experience with Disneyland where lands are shoehorned next to each other with little to no transition whatsoever between them (an example that sticks out in my mind is how you could easily throw a baseball at the Haunted Mansion while riding Splash Mountain); in many cases it's not uncommon at DL to find lands bleeding into one another. DL is about on par with Universal in this regard.

    Another way in which the themed design improvements bear out is in how WDW presents full attraction experiences as opposed to mere rides. Look at early attractions like PotC or Space Mountain, all the way up to more recent attractions like Toy Story Midway Mania. WDW, in nearly all cases, makes the queue part of the attraction experience, as opposed to DL where the queue usually is simply a switchback in the CA sun. The obvious, notable exception which must be pointed out here is the Indiana Jones Adventure, which is the most complete queue/attraction experience that WDI has ever developed. But this is a glaring exception at DLR. In WDW, the queues are used to draw you into the attraction experience. At DLR, the attractions pretty much stand all on their own. (I find it interesting too that the way FastPass functions at DLR serves to exacerbate this problem. Nearly all FastPass attractions at DLR separate their lines very early in the queue, resulting in backed up switchbacks outside the themed queue at attractions like Indy and Roger Rabbit, and then an extremely quick "run through" the part of the queue that is themed to hold your attention! Doesn't make a whole lot of sense... At WDW, Fastpass and Standby lines usually progress through the entire queue side by side until right at, or shortly before the load area. This gives both lines, but especially Standby which needs it more, the opportunity to view and appreciate the themed queues.)

    The above examples have focused on the MK vs. DL, but Epcot's World Showcase and Animal Kingdom (with the exception of Chester and Hester's) constitute what are undoubtedly some of the best examples of themed design in the country after WWoHP. DLR doesn't have anything even remotely comparable in this regard. Despite refurbing the entire park, DCA is still a convoluted mess of incoherent (and poor) themeing, and suffers from the same issues of no transitions/lands bleeding into one another that DL does.


    This is something that I HOPE to God that WDW does better and in a lot of cases they do. But a lot of it is also personal preference on layout and presentation. You mentioned the ability to throw a baseball from Splash to Haunted Mansion at Disneyland and you're absolutely right that the lands transition more abruptly. But, that's just the way it is and the most important thing is... they DO transition. If Florida has more space then by all means they should take advantage of it.

    But still... I do find a huge eyesore in MK's Big Thunder Mountain Railroad next to Splash Mountain and their Railroad tucked behind it. For a park with as much land as they have, I think a lot more could have been done with that because Song of the South ain't what I consider "Frontier".




    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    2) WDW has classic attractions available nowhere else. Want to see the Country Bear Jamboree in English? WDW's Magic Kingdom is the only place you'll find it. Want to experience Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress? Gotta go to Orlando. Want to ride a PeopleMover operated by Disney? WDW has the only one left on earth that's still operational.
    This is what I enjoy about the two resorts most: the unique attractions that one can't find elsewhere. I wish there were more of them to differentiate and less cloned attractions between the two.

    I think it would serve Disney well if they could convince the entire touring population to actually DO as many Disney parks as possible... all while still making Florida the ultimate Disney destination. Right now, aside from Epcot, I'd choose Tokyo over WDW without even thinking about it.



    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    3) WDW offers totally unique, world-class experiences. I have to laugh at those who say "DLR offers 80% of WDW." No; not even close. Yes, DL has a lot of similar attractions to the MK and some of them are improved. DLR has a few cloned attractions from Epcot, the Studios, and DAK. But saying that DLR can even approximate the experience of Epcot because it has Soarin', Captain EO, Innoventions, and will be getting an attraction based on the Test Track technology is akin to saying that HKDL can offer the same experiences as DL (in fact I would argue it's even more of a stretch than that). Saying that DLR can offer the same experience as DAK because it has It's Tough to be a Bug and the Indiana Jones Adventure is equally absurd. Even the Studios, WDW's worst park and the one that DCA copied from the most, still has the beautifully designed Hollywood Blvd. & Sunset Blvd., a far superior Tower of Terror, and The Great Movie Ride - they're totally unique experiences apart from anything DLR can offer. The themeing of World Showcase and DAK alone are enough reason to visit WDW IMHO.
    I agree with you on the uniqueness of the parks not found anywhere in the world, but I'm more practical I suppose on my criticism that WDW needs to do more with what they have. Perhaps tourists who never been don't know how many attractions to expect in one park but knowing what Disneyland offers, I feel like i'm not getting my full money's worth at DHS and DAK... or even MK for that matter.

    Epcot really is the best thing in WDW but also doesn't have a lot of attractions. This is just something that we'll have to agree to disagree with about because I've grown up loving everything about what the Imagineers are able to create in their rides and attractions. I really want more of it when I go to Orlando.



    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    8) WDW has a lot more to do. Again, this isn't one to spend a ton of time on as it's rather obvious and self-evident, but there are TONS of things to do at WDW even beyond the parks. Water recreation, golfing, dinner shows (including the classic Hoop-De-Doo Revue), two water parks, the BoardWalk, the Speedway, at least 8 different resorts that are worth exploring and spending time in, Disney Quest. Some people don't like the pressure of having too much to do. If you're trying to do everything at WDW, you're doing it wrong. I love being able to spend a week at WDW and know that there's so many things left for me to enjoy next time. Conversely, when I spend 4-5 days at DLR, by the end, I'm doing lots of things over again (not that I mind repeating my favorite DLR attractions, but at WDW I wouldn't have to do that).

    So take it or leave it, but FWIW that is why I think that WDW is worthy of respect and worth visiting, no matter where you're from.

    Agreed but this is something I really just don't care about personally. It's great that there's all the other stuff for people who wanna do it but when I go to a Disney Resort, all I wanna do is everything that Disney made exclusively which is the parks essentially.

    I do like Vegas for the same reason that there's plenty to do each time you go. But for WDW, I'll tend to tackle different restaurants each time I go and that's good enough for me.



    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    Finally, I'm just wondering why West Coasters constantly feel the need to denigrate WDW. Maybe my position as an East Coaster colors my perception of this, but I feel like a portion of the DLR crowd constantly feels the need to yell, "Hey! We're better than you! Especially if you're WDW!!" Honestly, it comes off as some amount of insecurity... If you really believed that, and were confident in it, would you constantly feel the need to write articles, blog posts, and message board postings about how DLR is better than every other resort on the planet? Maybe it's happening and I just haven't noticed it, but I can't find many (if any) East Coasters writing similar types of articles aimed at DLR. Why can't we get along?
    If I'm grouped into this, I apologize. I think a lot of it comes from my many visits to WDW while being a Disneyland cast member. The amount of down talk from hundreds of Florida Cast Members who never stepped one foot into Disneyland was staggering. And they never felt the need to. Why? It's only disneyLAND while they were walt disney WORLD. This is the type of brainwashing that is going on and I don't stand for it very well. In fact, it was insulting that so many felt that way.

    Basically... I would tolerate it if WDW was really as good as they believed it was. But it's not. It becomes more and more of a trap each passing year which brings me to this...


    Quote Originally Posted by PSUMark View Post
    Final (important) postscript: None of the above should in any way be construed as a defense of the mediocre levels of maintenance and cleanliness that WDW has sunk to in the last 17 years. That is a very serious and legitimate complaint against WDW, and one thing that DLR generally does better (sadly, the only resort that really still gets it right is TDLR). In these kinds of discussions, I intentionally try to separate the design of WDW from its current state of maintenance/(mis)management, and the above should be read with that in mind.

    This above is absolutely true. Each time I returned to WDW, there was more and more things that wasn't as good as the time before and fewer new things to experience. It really does make a difference on whether I should return again or not. And most times, I lean towards not.

    ... that's not something I should feel when leaving WDW.


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