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  1. #16

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    ^ I hear what you guys are saying, but IMNHO John had his hand in Nemo all the way up to his armpit. The way that attraction plays is as much his doing as anyone's. We'll see if Carsland lives up to its hype -- and humognous budget.

    Over the last 20 years there've been any number of brilliant ideas advanced by WDI. The reason they haven't become reality is because the Company is too damn cheap -- and doesn't care about true innovation any more than its millions of customers do.

    Disneyland went from a couple hundred acres of orange groves to a technological, creative and showmanship marvel that made kings and queens put it on their Must See list. They did it by innovating far above anything else in their time. Today's Disney is content to grow the easy, low-hanging fruit, and market it to customers who, by and large, are content to gobble it down as-is.

    As a techno-geek and Disney fan who was regularly astonished by Disneyland's innovation, the most astonishing thing to me today is how people who grew up with Pirates, Haunted Mansion and Indy as the base-line norm are content to shovel cash at a company that isn't topping those classics every few years. Seriously, when it comes to the heavy R&D that results in rock-your-world innovation, Disney isn't even trying. (NexGen? Pul-leese!)
    Nice Post!
    Quote by Al:
    To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
    -Al Lutz



  2. #17

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    No........ Walt opened the Matterhorn, Monorail and Subs the same day.......

    He used to open MANY attractions near the sametime because he ALWAYS wanted the park to improve and DCA is NOT Disneyland...not to Mention DCA is getting a makeover cause it sucked so bad no reason to punish Disneyland because of Greed men that made a crappy park.

    Disneyland has not had a NEW D or E ticket ride in YEARS only stuff like Star Tours or Rocket Rodes (redo's) We need more E-tickets
    Its not about punishing DL, but financially doesnt it make more sense to put another E ticket in DCA, since people that go to DCA usually park hop, than to pump the money into DL which then many people can skip over DCA easier and therefore just benefitting DL? All I am saying is if the big E ticket goes into DCA, then BOTH parks get a bump as opposed to just one park.

  3. #18

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    Disneyland is way way Way overdue to do something new - If not something "Big!!" at least Large. They need to get their Capacity back up to historic levels so they can get more paying customers through the gate each day without it seeming to be 'totally packed tight'.

    They have to re-Imagineer and reopen a few ride locations that have long been sitting vacant now - Some can't come back as they were like Motorboat Lagoon, Skyway, Peoplemover, etc - But the remains of the Rocket Rods system (sans the track over the Sub Lagoon) could be turned into a new Personal Rapid Transit system that goes to DCA, Puumba and Lion King lots (eventually TTP) and all the Disney Hotels for starters. I think they could get enough "Green Cred" to pay back the investment.

    And they need to develop and run a large entertainment venue that operates during those prime hours to soak up the people. Tomorrowland Terrace would be one place to soak up several hundred people if they do some expansions to maximize the seating availability - rather than all tables, add some bench areas with a dining counter facing the stage, and more space on the sides for plain chair seating (no tables).

    And they have the vacant Festival Arena that can be re-dressed for a variety of shows - that was a true SRO show when Festival Of Fools was running. Or start doing shows in the Fantasyland Theatre again, now that they are moving the Princess stuff out to a smaller venue - they wasted a nice theatre space on that.

    If they start shuffling things around Backstage like rehearsal halls and shops they can make room for several E-Tickets - two or even three behind ToonTown, one or two behind Critter Country - Even behind NOS if they shuffled around some stuff and they modernize (and move) the West Chiller Plant that provides the HVAC for the Westside of the park.

    Eastside would be a challenge, but not impossible - Dig a big hole, and you could put a ride building UNDER the Edison Square area behind Main Street, and put a 2-floor parking structure above it for the Parade Floats and other Backstage business. Or do it vice versa, parking on the bottom/underground and the ride building on top. And as a bonus, the floats would be out of the weather there.

    And I'll betcha there's wasted space at the Old Administration Building behind/around the GC/PW Diorama that can be refined, build a new Central First Aid in a real building with a usable Upstairs...

    Disneyland has room to grow and fill in, but it's going to get more expensive because things on the borders will have to be moved and rebuilt to clear space. I can sacrifice the Original Roundhouse (actually two tracks long and skinny north of Winnie The Pooh) and move the Recycling Seperation Area to stick a new Ride Building there.

    --<< Bruce >>--
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  4. #19

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by BuenaVista28 View Post
    Tony Baxter 'peaked' with DL Paris and Indy, since then he hasnt really done much in terms of innovation and/or just mind blowing attractions. Like you said, Nemo was kinda 'meh'. Ironically, the most innovative and Indy-calibur attraction (recently) is Radiator Springs Racers which Tony is not working on, perhaps thats why its looking so good
    Ever notice how even when legendary Imagineers like Marty Sklar, Jim Delaney, Wing Chao, and Valerie Edwards have all left (been fired from) the company, Tony Baxter is still there?

    Tony is a politics guy. He can talk the talk, and when he talks, he talks brilliantly. But he knows when to keep his mouth shut, too. As sad as it is, it seems to me that Disney's current creative climate means it's not a good career move to vocalize your objections all the time, and it sounds like Tony's figured out how to pick his battles smartly. By standing by Disney's side for the occasional TL'98 or Nemo Submarine Voyage, it means he can stay at the company long enough to propose his new Mr. Lincoln, or Sleeping Beauty Castle Walkthrough, or hopefully, a Frontierland or Tomorrowland expansion. And I have no problem with that.

    Sorry, as a designer, I just don't believe you can turn out something like Indy, Splash Mountain, or Disneyland Paris and can just completely "lose it" within a few years. I think Tony strives to do whatever he can on his given budget, whether that's a grand Indy-sized budget or whatever crap he was given to work with in the late 90s. Although the results sometimes aren't desirable, I think the fact that he's managed to stick around this long make it worth it in the long run.


  5. #20

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    ^ Yes, but off the point of what gets greenlit and not greenlit for Disneyland. The issue isn't the individual Imagineer, it's the Company.

    Tony didn't wake up one morning and start walking the political walk. He did it to survive the toxic cesspool of politics that Michael created (and which hasn't yet been pumped completely clean). At Disney, the Company makes it clear what they want and you give it to them -- for the marketing mall-with-rides that is Disneyland, what the Company wants is clear.

    No matter how brilliant you are, you don't pitch bluesky features to a company that wants toy brand infomercials.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 09-15-2011 at 09:41 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  6. #21

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    If they start shuffling things around Backstage like rehearsal halls and shops they can make room for several E-Tickets - two or even three behind ToonTown, one or two behind Critter Country - Even behind NOS if they shuffled around some stuff and they modernize (and move) the West Chiller Plant that provides the HVAC for the Westside of the park.

    Eastside would be a challenge, but not impossible - Dig a big hole, and you could put a ride building UNDER the Edison Square area behind Main Street, and put a 2-floor parking structure above it for the Parade Floats and other Backstage business. Or do it vice versa, parking on the bottom/underground and the ride building on top. And as a bonus, the floats would be out of the weather there.
    I was with you until these two paragraphs. I don't see any of these ideas as being practical or necessary anytime in the next 25 years.

    The backstage buildings are needed - these support two parks. I can imagine *some* reshuffling to happen but only in the backstage areas north of Big Thunder Ranch.

    Innoventions, the MBC, half of Autopia, the current Fantasyland Theater, Big Thunder Ranch and the area just north of that outside the berm, gives them plenty of space to expand in the next 25 years. With that, you could totally revamp Tomorrowland and build a great big E-ticket, you could add 3-4 new attractions to Fantasyland and expand Frontierland with several attractions AND add a new land to its north. That's plenty of expansion/redeveloping for the foreseeable future.

  7. #22

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    I agree with the overall consensus here, but not the timing.

    1st project MUST be adding the parrelle street to the east side of main street.
    From traffic flow (fireworks/Fan!) to simple safety in an emergency, it should be a top priority. There should still be plenty of space back there for the parade to turn around.

    2nd Get rid of Indy fastpass, we all know how fastpass screws up the wait times, but that's not why I say get rid of it. Use the space for Stroller parking!!! Dear god, on busy days the strollers in our narrow Adventureland make it a nightmare to navigate at times!

    Then after that is done, but before an E or D+ ticket is added, bring back a production of ANYTHING in the Fantasyland Theater. By the time an East Main St project is underway, the new Princess Faire will be open.

    Then we can talk about TL, FL (Fest/Circle D), Motorboat, or Pooh.
    Main St is a choke point (fire hazard) add another E Ticket or 2 or 3 (as one poster put it) and those guests are going to enter/exit where?

    Its going to be a 60 year old park with attendance FAR BEYOND what the midways were designed for.
    From Small World to Fantasyland, the midway was vastly expanded for Light Magic, adding the west side speedy aisle.
    NOS was expanded for the 9K people to watch Fantasmic!
    Bear Country was redesigned numerous times (Indian Circle, Splash Bridge) for increased traffic.
    Frontierland's new drink cart is offset from the midway, and the planters have been reduced in size over the years.
    Recently the planters in front of the Opera House were reduced by a foot all around.
    Of course (somehow) Tomorrowland was made worse when they added those rocks creating a choke point.

  8. #23

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    The question is not whether or ot Disneyland needs another E ticket. The question is when Disneyland finally gets one, will it be based on an original concept, or just a re-telling of a Disney movie?
    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    Disneyland has not had a NEW D or E ticket ride in YEARS only stuff like Star Tours or Rocket Rodes (redo's) We need more E-tickets
    I was with you up until this point where you called Rocket Rods a redo. It was actually a whole new ride that used entirely different ride vehicles and ride system than it's predecessor. The only thing recycled was the track, and even that was altered for the new vehicles to work. It was actually fun while it lasted. It's just too bad they never took the time to perfect the technology so that the ride wouldn't have suffered all those breakdowns that finally led to it's demise.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  9. #24

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by mrwagnal9 View Post
    Of course (somehow) Tomorrowland was made worse when they added those rocks creating a choke point.
    It will be a great day when someone in the company gets those "rocks" demolished from TL.
    As pointed out, it's a choke point and also just plain ugly. There's nothing "tomorrow" about rocks.

    ---------- Post added 09-15-2011 at 11:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    The only thing recycled was the track, and even that was altered for the new vehicles to work.
    Altered? I was under the impression original track and just the queue and loading/unloading were "altered" (line def. altered). The "cars" had to slow down because they couldn't handle the turns due to the shape of the original track.
    Quote by Al:
    To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
    -Al Lutz



  10. #25

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFreak71 View Post
    Altered? I was under the impression original track and just the queue and loading/unloading were "altered" (line def. altered). The "cars" had to slow down because they couldn't handle the turns due to the shape of the original track.
    By altered, I was referring to the ride mechanisms within the track that made the old Peoplemover go. As far as the unbanked turns, those remained which was a contributing factor to the constant breakdowns.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  11. #26

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    As far as the unbanked turns, those remained which was a contributing factor to the constant breakdowns.
    Yeah there were.
    Nothing like standing in line for two hours
    and the riding closing (oh those wonderful days )
    Quote by Al:
    To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
    -Al Lutz



  12. #27

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    I was with you until these two paragraphs. I don't see any of these ideas as being practical or necessary anytime in the next 25 years.

    The backstage buildings are needed - these support two parks. I can imagine *some* reshuffling to happen but only in the backstage areas north of Big Thunder Ranch.

    Innoventions, the MBC, half of Autopia, the current Fantasyland Theater, Big Thunder Ranch and the area just north of that outside the berm, gives them plenty of space to expand in the next 25 years. With that, you could totally revamp Tomorrowland and build a great big E-ticket, you could add 3-4 new attractions to Fantasyland and expand Frontierland with several attractions AND add a new land to its north. That's plenty of expansion/redeveloping for the foreseeable future.
    THIS +1000...also redo the PM track and add streamlined sleek ride vehicles similar to the old PM and have opne track that takes you to DCA and back only.

  13. #28

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    "E" Ticket Made in 1959 (monorail, matterhorn, Subs etc.)
    The Enchanted Tiki Room 1963 (4 years)
    Its A Small World 1966 (3 years)
    Pirates Of the Caribbean 1967 (1 year)
    The Hunted Mansion 1969 (2 years)
    Country Bear Jamboree 1972 (3 Years)
    Space Mountain 1977 (5 years NB: MK one opened 2 years earlier)
    Big Thunder 1979 (2 Years)
    Star Tours 1986 (7 years)
    Splash Mountain 1989 (3 Years)
    Indy 1995 (6 years)
    TBC (at LEAST 17 years!!!)

    See The Math here....
    Last edited by 9906; 09-16-2011 at 12:35 AM. Reason: Forgot BTM

  14. #29

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    ^^ What about the Fantasyland rebuild in 1983?

  15. #30

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    Re: Case AGAINST new E ticket for Disneyland

    Seems like it bothers alot of you that DCA is getting so much attention recently. The implication here is that DCA is some sort of thief that took away stuff from DL.
    Last edited by BuenaVista28; 09-16-2011 at 05:30 AM.

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