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  1. #211

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFreak71 View Post
    Based on the current marketing promo
    Disney is being nice and giving you an extra day of Disney
    (sorry, I couldn't resist)
    With an invoice date of 12/12/11 wouldn't 90 days be March 12th, 2012, and seeing that I got my invoice on 12/29/11 wouldn't it be 03/29/12? Or do Disney terms have magic math?

  2. #212

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    I must say that I'm thoroughly enjoying reading this thread. Interestingly enough, I'm surprised at why certain members stay a member if they're unhappy with it and have been for sometime? I mean to me that's quite a bit of money to spend every year and not be happy with what your receiving in return don't you think? Maybe my thinking is just naive on this matter.

  3. #213

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    So I am confused, could 4yearMember just sign people in or was did it require a lunch or dinner reservation? If it required a lunch or dinner what has changed other the number is capped at 50?

    I undwestand that going from unlimited to 50 is a significant change but how many of the supposed 450 members exceeded this number?
    The Mur
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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    I don't dispute that. I would be upset as well with the state of the club. That is why I am hopefully optimistic...You can be cynical and pessimistic all you want, but what will that get you?
    I fully understand where you are coming from. My position continues to be the same...I can hope and wish for change or I can make a big enough stink about it that both current members and prospective members demand change. I truly think after so many years of hollow promises it is time for Disney to put forth their best effort and show us what can be done. Only then, when we have seen the light and some glimmer of hope should they ask for triple the fees. How about the 400 plus members write a giant I.O.U. and promise to pay? Maybe the club should be optimistic about what's to come...The membership has done their part, it is time for the club to deliver more than promises.

    The bottom line, I know it can be done, the question remains, will it be done? We've heard it before. Ouimet made some great changes, let's also give credit to Emmer who was treated poorly by the company. The difference here is that the regime at the club has not changed. Same bad manager, triple the price.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4YearMember View Post
    With an invoice date of 12/12/11 wouldn't 90 days be March 12th, 2012, and seeing that I got my invoice on 12/29/11 wouldn't it be 03/29/12? Or do Disney terms have magic math?
    You sir are making my point over and over…if they can’t even get this correct, are they really going to roll out the red carpet for you at triple the price? Could it be that the club is telling you that you are now a second class citizen and until they see you upgrade to the new platinum level, you will be dealt the same hand each and every time? This is obvious to everyone who wants to see it for what it is. Nothing has changed other than the price and the lower benefits, it is business as usual at the club despite the new pricing structure.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Disneylandfan View Post
    I'm surprised at why certain members stay a member if they're unhappy with it and have been for sometime? I mean to me that's quite a bit of money to spend every year and not be happy with what your receiving in return don't you think?
    You are 100% correct. Some members have stayed, despite the declining service, out of loyalty. Let’s be honest, some just are afraid to take a stand and give up the membership. At some point it becomes too much. I feel we are at that point. I don’t expect a mass exit of members this year, but I fully expect it next year. We are setting a horrible precedent here. Everyone who is willing to pay more for less will certainly get the same treatment year after year. If they can’t find a way to get you to upgrade to the platinum level, they will squeeze you on benefits until you throw in the towel.

    Quote Originally Posted by themur View Post
    So I am confused, could 4yearMember just sign people in or was did it require a lunch or dinner reservation?..I undwestand that going from unlimited to 50 is a significant change but how many of the supposed 450 members exceeded this number?
    Since 2001, members had the ability to go to the park and sign in one additional person even if not dining at the club. Prior to 2001, you could sign in a number of people each day. This privilege was also extended to the spouse card or additional card. You also had the ability to make reservations on a space available basis for your guests to dine at the club and receive park hopper passes for free if they kept their dining reservation. This was in addition to the ability to sign in 1 guest at any time.

    The ongoing argument is that you can’t exceed a number of reservations that was never capped. Instead of saying members violated a rule that does not exist, they should have approached members above a certain threshold and asked if they could keep things to a level that was equal to the membership as a whole. Where this issue makes no sense is that the club needs people dining there in order to make money. You don’t want an empty dining room as it does not generate income. How can they punish people for sending business to Club 33? The real reason for the cap in reservations is so that they can double the membership base and get at the money from the wait list.

    Similar to the “exclusive” Walt package for the 50th anniversary event. They sold all 50 spaces and still had 40 more people on the waitlist. They quickly eliminated the events that were limited in space to 50 people so that they could accommodate a larger group and then sold an extra 40 spaces to the event. Same scam, different Disney division.

  5. #215

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by themur View Post
    So I am confused, could 4yearMember just sign people in or was did it require a lunch or dinner reservation? If it required a lunch or dinner what has changed other the number is capped at 50?

    I undwestand that going from unlimited to 50 is a significant change but how many of the supposed 450 members exceeded this number?
    I was able to sign in one person per day, my Wife was allowed to sign in one person as well. We couldn't just find people on the street and leave tickets at Guest Relations, we had to go to the park, and sign them in, in person. If you have every had to meet someone at the park, you know this is not an easy task. Nobody is ever on time. Where I found I used it most useful was signing in my Kids (I eliminated annual passes for the Kids to help justify the cost of the membership). Also it was available to me and my wife if we were out with a couple we could sign them in and enjoy the park for a while. I don't think we misused this benefit, in fact usually we would stay just a couple of hours. Go in and watch the fireworks then leave.

    I noticed that from the beginning that when I am at the front gate signing in, they usually ask me "How Many", does anybody know if the old members were grandfathered in for signing more than one person? My understanding is that the multiple sign in benefit went away in about 2001.

  6. #216

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 4YearMember View Post
    I noticed that from the beginning that when I am at the front gate signing in, they usually ask me "How Many", does anybody know if the old members were grandfathered in for signing more than one person? My understanding is that the multiple sign in benefit went away in about 2001.
    The benefit was reduced in 2001 to +1 regardless of what level membership you were at.

  7. #217

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 4YearMember View Post
    I was able to sign in one person per day, my Wife was allowed to sign in one person as well.
    If both you and wife were able to enter the Park and sign in one person on the same day you found a glitch in their system. I have a letter that states "Please note that although two membership cards are issued, there is only one membership account. Club 33 membership allows a maximum of two admissions per day, per membership, one of which must be the member or the member's spouse/domestic partner. If additional admissions are recorded, your account will be billed the regular adult admission price of a park-hopper ticket for each additional admission. If both you and you spouse/domestic partner use your respective cards on the same day, that will count as your two admissions."

    So under the new rules with a Gold Membership you still get your 2 admissions, you just loose the ability to bring someone other than your spouse which was a benefit I hate to loose.

  8. #218

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 4YearMember View Post
    With an invoice date of 12/12/11 wouldn't 90 days be March 12th, 2012, and seeing that I got my invoice on 12/29/11 wouldn't it be 03/29/12? Or do Disney terms have magic math?
    I'm totally on your side (my post was an attempt at a joke...fail on my part).
    I wouldn't bill someone at the beginning of the month and then send it at the end of the month.
    Just because you write the date, doesn't mean it starts on that date.
    90 days needs to start when the invoice was received.
    Quote by Al:
    To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
    -Al Lutz



  9. #219

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFreak71 View Post
    Just because you write the date, doesn't mean it starts on that date.
    90 days needs to start when the invoice was received.
    It can start on the day it was sent, provided it is sent in a timely manner. Especially if it is a generous amount of time, such as 90 days. More typical is 30 or 60 days.
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
    .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- -. -.-- --- -. . / -... --- - .... . .-. / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..

  10. #220

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    My real argument and my negativity is that in typical Disney fashion, they blame the paying customer. This is simply bad business and there is no excuse for this whatsoever.
    This is the same thing they have been trying to do with the AP program. They promote and promote, have the payment plan (which I admittedly use), get too many AP's and then try to price people out. This is going to continue for the foreseeable future IMO, or at least until they reach a price-point where people stop renewing.

    This seems ridiculous when all they really need to do is eliminate the SoCal Ap's and have just the Premium and Deluxe like they did in the past.

    I truly feel for all of the 33 members who were not abusing the system and are unfortunately being impacted by this through no fault of their own.


  11. #221

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    If they can’t find a way to get you to upgrade to the platinum level, they will squeeze you on benefits until you throw in the towel.
    This is where I believe you are taking it too far. I don't believe they have any intention of squeezing out the gold members. They certainly didn't squeeze out the silver members, which are still around.

    ---------- Post added 01-04-2012 at 11:10 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    This is the same thing they have been trying to do with the AP program. They promote and promote, have the payment plan (which I admittedly use), get too many AP's and then try to price people out. This is going to continue for the foreseeable future IMO, or at least until they reach a price-point where people stop renewing.

    This seems ridiculous when all they really need to do is eliminate the SoCal Ap's and have just the Premium and Deluxe like they did in the past.
    I think we all need to step back an understand something about Disney. Disney is not a charity, it is a business. Even in 1955, Disneyland priced things to make money. The money that Disney makes allows them to build more attractions and create new opportunities. I think we can all agree that Disneyland would cease to exist if it didn't bring in money.

    Now the issue with AP's is off topic, so it might be better moved to a new thread. Disney offers annual passes, but has to weigh the demand vs. the price point. If they set the price of a pass too low, they sell too many, and the park is constantly crowded. Disney doesn't want empty parks, but they also do not want overcrowded parks. Busy is good, but too busy is bad. Overcrowded days lead to more complaints and dissatisfied customers who may decide to not return. The reason pass prices keep climbing is because they keep selling and the park is constantly packed. By increasing the price, they are not trying to "price people out," they are trying to temper demand to acceptable levels.

    With regard to the Southern California passes which are blocked out on the busiest days, eliminating those passes would do nothing to stop crowding on the busiest days, because those passes are already blocked out. These passes allow the park to make more money by bringing in more visitors on days that are less crowded, and thus, not running at some pre-determined optimal number of visitors. If they eliminate the southern california passes, some of those people will buy deluxe passes, and just increase the number of people visiting on already crowded days. By eliminating the southern california passes, they would have to increase the cost of the deluxe and premium passes to keep demand the same on the busier days.

    I know it is popular to think that Disneyland keeps increasing the cost of the different admission media just to make more money. While they certainly do appreciate the additional money, the true reason is to balance supply and demand at a reasonable and sustainable point. There were articles for the 2010 holiday season that Disneyland attendance jumped 20% from the previous year. There were also articles this week about how crowded the parks have been, and reaching capacity on Christmas day. Now imagine many many more people with passes trying to get in.
    Last edited by Osky; 01-04-2012 at 11:15 AM. Reason: spelling
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
    .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- -. -.-- --- -. . / -... --- - .... . .-. / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..

  12. #222

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    This is where I believe you are taking it too far. I don't believe they have any intention of squeezing out the gold members. They certainly didn't squeeze out the silver members, which are still around.
    Only time will tell, but I firmly believe they want to replace each member or force them to upgrade. You're correct, they did not squeeze out the silver members and now they are still hanging on for a fraction of what a new member will be asked to pay.

    Disney's greed is evident in everything they do. Why keep someone around at $3,600 when they believe someone else will take the same spot for $10,000 per year. The flaw I see in your analysis is that if they currently have no room for additional members, why create a new level? Clearly they want to push people to the new level and/or make room for new members at much higher initiation fees and annual dues. This has to come in one of two forms...restrict guest admissions (already did that) and/or make members leave.

    As I said to you earlier, this is not personal to you, I know we just share a difference of opinion and I am the pessimist and you are the optimist. When we really examine this, it would seem that you making the case that Disney did this as a "thank you" to those loyal members who have been around forever? If you don't want to lose your loyal customer, why such significant changes?
    Last edited by Disneynut; 01-04-2012 at 11:35 AM.

  13. #223

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    Disney's greed is evident in everything they do. Why keep someone around at $3,600 when they believe someone else will take the same spot for $10,000 per year. The flaw I see in your analysis is that if they currently have no room for additional members, so why create a new level? Clearly they want to push people to the new level and/or make room for new members at a much higher initiation fees and annual dues. This has to come in one of two forms...restrict guest admissions (already did that) and/or make members leave.
    So, you admit that they didn't squeeze out the silver members, yet you say that is what they are trying to do to the gold members. I don't get it.

    You have to acknowledge that current members won't be around forever. Some will simply not renew. Some will fall on hard times. Some will unfortunately die. Just because they change the structure for new members joining doesn't mean they are forcing out the old. If you truly believe that any change is done to force people out, then you have to look at the annual dues increase in the same light. Was the annual dues increase geared to force people out? They do not have room for new members right now, but they will in the future.

    I don't think "they [clearly] want to push people to the new level and/or make room for new members at a much higher initiation fees and annual dues." If they did, they would tell the current members that there is no more gold, and they have to bump up or leave. I'm sure they would like the gold members to bump up, but they are not forcing them to do so.



    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    As I said to you earlier, this is not personal to you, I know we just share a difference of opinion and I am the pessimist and you are the optimist. When we really examine this, it would seem that you making the case that Disney did this as a "thank you" to those loyal members who have been around forever? If you don't want to lose your loyal customer, why such significant changes?
    Haven't you been complaining about the declining service, along with other members? Kinda hard to bring about change without changing anything, isn't it? I have also said all along that I admit that I could be very wrong. This could all be for crap. I'm just trying to bring in the other side since all of the posts here have the usual "Disney sucks, look what they are doing now" theme. Not all change has been bad.
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
    .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- -. -.-- --- -. . / -... --- - .... . .-. / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..

  14. #224

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    Haven't you been complaining about the declining service, along with other members? Kinda hard to bring about change without changing anything, isn't it? I have also said all along that I admit that I could be very wrong. This could all be for crap. I'm just trying to bring in the other side since all of the posts here have the usual "Disney sucks, look what they are doing now" theme. Not all change has been bad.
    First, I have never said you are wrong. I truly appreciate the different view point. I have tried to be very clear that what I post is merely my opinion. I am all for change. The world is not stagnant, but needs change to move forward. I support change where it makes sense. Nobody heard me cry about the demise of the Walt Disney Gallery above Pirates. I did not utter a word at the change in the guidelines for the special assistance pass. Nor did I open my big mouth about the additions to POTC, and so on.

    I am against change when it is presented in a series of lies or when blame is used as an excuse for change. I am not a politician and I hate people who give nonsensical political type answers to direct questions.

    The bottom line is that I am a business owner and a successful one at that. I do not succeed by giving my clients poor service, increased rates for less benefits or telling them that they did something wrong (even if they clearly did). When I introduce a new product or service in my business, it is common practice to show or demonstrate how this new product or service is of value to the customer. My thought process is a simple one...when people can see true value they naturally will agree to pay more.

    The service at Club 33 has been declining for years and years. The complaints have fallen on deaf ears. Each year, promises are made and nothing ever changes. How can I look at this with an optimistic view? To me, it makes perfect sense to take this to a public forum and see if I am in the minority or majority opinion. Funny, but I don't see a single member on this board telling us how service is excellent, food is great, member’s events are stunning and so on. Not a single one...I see a few guests who want to keep their access to the club going but not a single member has taken to this forum and said how they believe the club is delivering on their promises.

    What makes this argument so personal to many is that Club 33 is very unique. It is not like a supermarket where you get angry and switch stores. There is not a similar offering to be had. For this reason, many members, listen to the broken record of promises and continue to pay year after year. It that is not defined as eternal optimism, then you will have to explain the word to me.

    I agree with you, I usually have a negative view on almost everything. That said, I did not cause others to have the same view. The facts are what they are. You have a number of members complaining for cause. I can appreciate that you want to hold out hope for a better future. There are plenty of members here who have held onto that belief year after year and at some point, hope gives out to reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    I think we all need to step back an understand something about Disney. Disney is not a charity, it is a business. Even in 1955, Disneyland priced things to make money. The money that Disney makes allows them to build more attractions and create new opportunities.
    Great point. In the end, we actually do agree. When someone asks why the ticket prices go up, they should cite your answer. It makes perfect sense and its logical. You don’t hear a cast member at the ticket booth telling a guest that prices went up because they abused the park and now we have to recover money to pay for the damage. Same thing with Club 33…just say we are raising prices and changing benefits to reflect current demand. Don’t blame the customer!
    Last edited by Disneynut; 01-04-2012 at 12:39 PM.

  15. #225

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post

    I don't think "they [clearly] want to push people to the new level and/or make room for new members at a much higher initiation fees and annual dues." If they did, they would tell the current members that there is no more gold, and they have to bump up or leave. I'm sure they would like the gold members to bump up, but they are not forcing them to do so.
    Your argument falls way short, given what is actually happening with the changes in benefits.

    Comp passes used to be unlimited, but not anymore. Now, gold members are being capped at 50 per year. This will definitely translate into fewer diners in the club at any given time. And with fewer diners present, more memberships can be offered to those on the wait list.

    If this wasn't about slowly pushing current members toward the higher Platinum level, then why aren't the new members being offered Gold level? Why are all of the new members only being offered Platinum? And for how long do you feel the new members are going to quietly accept their higher dues when dining next to members and/or their guests who are paying about one-third as much or less, for the same club access?

    Sure, the Platinum members get more goodies like 4 Premium passes and 5 VIP tours, and an exclusive dining room in the new Club 1901. But that's not the main reason fans become C33 members. It's mostly about access to Walt's private club. That's why folks spend thousands to join and renew. And for a significant chunk of the total membership, that access to Walt's private club will cost thousands less each year than for others. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.


    Trust me. This is not going to play well with new members in the future. Disney will be forced to eventually deal with the resentment by either dramatically increasing Gold membership dues while forcing Silver members to upgrade to Gold, or eliminating Silver and Gold level membership altogether by forcing members to upgrade to Platinum. I believe the latter action would be met with more resistance and possible legal action on the part of long-term members, so the former action is more likely to happen. Either way, the Silvers and Golds will eventually be priced out of existence.

    If Disney had any serious intention of keeping the Silvers and Golds for another decade or longer, they would have simply increased the Gold level to $5,000 annual dues and allowed wait list holders to join at that level. By grandfathering the Silvers and Golds, Disney has paved the way to eliminate them completely in the future.
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