Page 20 of 71 FirstFirst ... 10171819202122233070 ... LastLast
Results 286 to 300 of 1062
  1. #286

    • Hiding from the Sheeple
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    591

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristocat View Post
    But there is no talk about Club 33 forcing Silver and Gold members to upgrade in the future. So, why would anyone leave who is grandfathered in? Do you believe that next year will see even more drastic cuts in benefits? How often can the Club increase dues for Silver and Gold members and at what percentage?
    I still think that most lower tier members will stay, no matter what the cuts, just to keep what so many people want; access to dinner at the Club.
    Call me crazy, but the concept or notion of paying more for less each year seems a little idiotic. I do agree that some members will renew no matter what they are offered. I like my Big Mac but if you suddenly take away half of the burger and charge me $25.00 I am not interested.

    I absolutely believe they will continue to increase renewal rates and will continue to strip the lower membership levels of benefits. They are already doing it so why would next year be any different? I will never understand this logic when it comes to Disney. I am a simple person and I apply simple logic. If someone robs a bank today, do I then make the unnatural assumption that they won’t do it in the future? Of course not…Disney raises prices and reduces benefits today (as they have been for years) the natural assumption is that this trend will continue.

    I don't know how anyone can't see what is going on here. Compare benefits and renewal rates from 2001 to 2011 and then adjust for inflation. They don’t compare…They did not create a new level of membership because of the 5 new members they hope to add in the next 10 years. This was all done with purpose.

    This process is quite simple. Until they receive some form of push-back from the membership (complaining in a public forum is not enough, people need to vote with their checkbook) this will continue to happen on a yearly basis. This is a company-wide philosophy and/or policy. Only when people did not turn up at California Adventure did it warrant a change. Club 33 has lost the luster. When the cost of a meal and admission to eat that meal runs almost equal to dining at The French Laundry or other top rated North American restaurant they have priced themselves out of reality.

  2. #287

    •   
    • Astigmatic
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    In a sunbeam.
    Posts
    8,677
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Plenty of people would think it idiotic to spend even $2000 for access to eat at the Club when you can have a much better dining experience elsewhere. But one doesn't get a membership to the Club for access to a good steak. And I'm pretty sure that while most will grumble, people would still pay good money for their Silver and Gold membership even with every perk stripped away. I just don't see turnover increasing by much if at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by All4dISNEY
    Words hurt.

  3. #288

    • Hiding from the Sheeple
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    591

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristocat View Post
    Plenty of people would think it idiotic to spend even $2000 for access to eat at the Club when you can have a much better dining experience elsewhere. But one doesn't get a membership to the Club for access to a good steak. And I'm pretty sure that while most will grumble, people would still pay good money for their Silver and Gold membership even with every perk stripped away. I just don't see turnover increasing by much if at all.
    I agree with you, in the past, most didn't pay for a membership at Club 33 for a good steak. This years benefits are reduced to options that can purchased on the open market, so why would anyone either join or remain a member of Club 33 if not for the purpose of a meal?

    Please don't take this as a personal argument, but you did not address the core issue here. They created a new level with higher fees for a reason. It was not so that things will go unchanged at the club. I agree that many will renew simply as a matter of pride even if they were to serve dog food on a blue and gold plate.

    These changes were made for a reason. This first year will be an effort to roll out a new offer and see if people want it. The second year there will be more of an effort to push people to the new level with another increase and further reduced benefits for lower levels. By the third year look for the silver membership level to be eliminated. By the fourth year look for a new and much higher priced level to be offered and the gold level eliminated. Again, you don't create a new offer in the hopes of achieving the status quo.

  4. #289

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    6 hours from the House of Mouse
    Posts
    3,501

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    This process is quite simple. Until they receive some form of push-back from the membership (complaining in a public forum is not enough, people need to vote with their checkbook) this will continue to happen on a yearly basis.
    Here is a problem though for those who have memberships. They push back, refuse to pay up, and in a year Disney goes "Well shoot, we blew it, let's put back this, that, and the other thing we took away." But now, the ones who pushed back can only wait to be put back on a list, and they have lost their old membership. So, I can see many waiting.
    If you see a cute yellow lab puppy with a yellow cape, WAVE! It might be us! (Or it may be someone else that lurks here!) Thank you for asking before you pet! Next trip, Dec 22-Jan 3rd.

  5. #290

    • Hiding from the Sheeple
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    591

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    Here is a problem though for those who have memberships. They push back, refuse to pay up, and in a year Disney goes "Well shoot, we blew it, let's put back this, that, and the other thing we took away." But now, the ones who pushed back can only wait to be put back on a list, and they have lost their old membership. So, I can see many waiting.
    I agree, but let's face facts. Club 33 will never improve as long as they have a membership base who will continue to pay more for less. There is simply no incentive for them to change anything at this point. I will never understand how someone can be treated so poorly while maintaining constant hope that it will improve. I won't be a party to additional years of suffering in the hopes that it may improve at some distant point in the future. Treat me poorly and I am out. My dignity is worth more than a little white and gold membership card (soon to be replaced with a premium annual pass).

  6. #291

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    6 hours from the House of Mouse
    Posts
    3,501

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    I agree, but let's face facts. Club 33 will never improve as long as they have a membership base who will continue to pay more for less. There is simply no incentive for them to change anything at this point. I will never understand how someone can be treated so poorly while maintaining constant hope that it will improve. I won't be a party to additional years of suffering in the hopes that it may improve at some distant point in the future. Treat me poorly and I am out. My dignity is worth more than a little white and gold membership card (soon to be replaced with a premium annual pass).
    I understand and I do agree. But it is sad that some of the long timers may have to lose their memberships to get the attention of Disney, only to make it better for newbies. (And it is an ugly green card now.)
    If you see a cute yellow lab puppy with a yellow cape, WAVE! It might be us! (Or it may be someone else that lurks here!) Thank you for asking before you pet! Next trip, Dec 22-Jan 3rd.

  7. #292

    • Hiding from the Sheeple
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    591

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    I understand and I do agree. But it is sad that some of the long timers may have to lose their memberships to get the attention of Disney, only to make it better for newbies. (And it is an ugly green card now.)
    It is sad...I feel for everyone. Disney is a business and a business should listen to their customers. When a large number of them are telling the business that it needs to improve, change should happen. Nobody should have to threaten to leave in order to gain the attention of the policy makers.

  8. #293

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    154

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    ... I absolutely believe they will continue to increase renewal rates and will continue to strip the lower membership levels of benefits. They are already doing it so why would next year be any different?
    There have been two individual-member tiers (Silver & Gold) for some years now, and I haven't seen any policy to armtwist the Silvers into Gold.

    Nor right now are Silvers or Golds being armtwisted into Platinum. Quite the contrary: They are both grandfathered at their lower dues-levels.

    Now let's look at the question of "lost benefits". What's been lost to the S&Gs that Platinums [still] get? Nothing. The new restrictions on numbers of comped Park admissions are the same for S/G/P.

    Is the limitation of 50@/year comped Park admissions a bad thing? Net effect is to put a brake on members who abuse the Club's capacity with large and regular numbers of their friends (who are not dues-paying members). Thus members (who do pay dues) will have a better chance getting reservations. And, really, 50 comps/year is quite a lot of comps, methinks.

    The other change is that while you and your spouse still have unlimited Park access, any third party will be a charge against your 50@/year free-admission quota. As this also serves to reduce non-duespaying-member use of the Club, I don't see it as a bad thing for those who are paying their dues for access.

    ... Compare benefits and renewal rates from 2001 to 2011 and then adjust for inflation. They don’t compare.
    As discussed above, S&G haven't lost any benefits over these years, and the 2012 changes actually act to give them increased and easier access to the Club as dues-paying members.

    Now let's look at the dues: 2001-2 Gold dues were $2,825. 2012 dues are $3,600. That's a 27% increase in ten years. I haven't done the compounded rates of inflation or cost-of-living in L.A. or California over the same decade, but this doesn't sound extraordinarily out of line to me. It would also be useful to compare it to Parks admission costs over the same period of time.

    Until they receive some form of push-back from the membership (complaining in a public forum is not enough, people need to vote with their checkbook) this will continue to happen on a yearly basis.
    As above, what's to "push back" about? The higher general costs of everything from gasoline to medical care each year? My sympathies; I would like to buy a gallon of gas for 30 the way I could in the 1960s. Times & economies change, and to blame it all on Club 33 or Disneyland generally is not fair.

    Club 33 has lost the luster.
    Looks just as elegant to me today as it did 25 years ago, actually.

    When the cost of a meal and admission to eat that meal runs almost equal to dining at The French Laundry or other top rated North American restaurant they have priced themselves out of reality.
    I'm not sure what your point is here. Can you find stickershock restaurants all over the world? Of course. Is lunch or dinner at Club 33 idiotically out of line with the cuisine or overall dining experience? I don't think so.

    But once again: Club 33 is not just "any" restaurant; it is Disneyland, which puts it in a single class in the world. Either that is magic for you or it is not; and if not, you can assuredly find plenty of good restaurants elsewhere. Just go wherever you're going to enjoy yourself!

    ______
    Rachane

  9. #294

    • Hiding from the Sheeple
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    591

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post
    What's been lost to the S&Gs that Platinums [still] get? Nothing. The new restrictions on numbers of comped Park admissions are the same for S/G/P.
    With all due respect, we will have to disagree on several points. I did not compare the current gold benefits to the new platinum benefits. I feel both are watered down. I have argued that through the years benefits at all levels have decreased while prices have increased. I stand by that argument. How many guests were you allowed to sign-in prior to 2001? How many guests are you allowed to sign-in after 2001? How many guests are you allowed to sign-in today? When you consider the historical cost of a one day pass (2000=$41.00, 2001=$43.00, 2011= $80.00) I would say this is a significant loss in benefits while the cost of yearly dues has only increased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post
    Is the limitation of 50@/year comped Park admissions a bad thing? Net effect is to put a brake on members who abuse the Club's capacity with large and regular numbers of their friends (who are not dues-paying members). Thus members (who do pay dues) will have a better chance getting reservations. And, really, 50 comps/year is quite a lot of comps, methinks.
    For me personally, I don’t consider it a bad thing. For members who do not make a large number of reservations each year, maybe they feel the same. I do however find fault with the word “abuse” as there was not previously a written policy regarding how many reservations per year were appropriate. Certainly my favorite restaurant would not be angry at me for sending referrals their way.

    I do understand that some members may feel that others were abusing the system, but this should have been addressed with the individual member directly. Blaming and/or punishing the entire member base for the actions of the minority is not how an elite membership club should handle things.

    Once again, many see this is a loss of benefits. At the time that many members made a financial decision to purchase their membership, many relied on this privilege to justify the cost. I understand and support Club 33’s right to change any policy or benefit as the contract is on a year to year basis. I also support a members’ right to feel as though they have been stripped of a fairly large benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post
    As discussed above, S&G haven't lost any benefits over these years, and the 2012 changes actually act to give them increased and easier access to the Club as dues-paying members.
    This remains to be seen. I truly believe this move is intended to almost double the membership ranks. As you know, they have been trying to find a way to bring those on the wait-list into the fold for quite some time. The concept of another membership club failed and I believe this to be the new effort to clear out that waiting list.

    Personally, I am shocked at how anyone would perceive a loss of benefits as a move to benefit the membership as a whole. Insurance companies, airlines and hotel chains have been trying this for years. Only Disney seems to be able to pull it off. Give you less and then make you feel good about it. Again, if you are pleased with the current offer and find value in it, I won’t try to convince you otherwise. I am simply expressing my opinion and echoing the thoughts of many who have come on here to complain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post
    Now let's look at the dues: 2001-2 Gold dues were $2,825. 2012 dues are $3,600. That's a 27% increase in ten years. I haven't done the compounded rates of inflation or cost-of-living in L.A. or California over the same decade, but this doesn't sound extraordinarily out of line to me. It would also be useful to compare it to Parks admission costs over the same period of time.
    I would agree with this. The one thing left out of this equation is the minimum food charge that is tied to the cost of a one-day, one-park passport. In 2001 park admission was $43.00. In 2011 it was $80.00. This equals an 86% increase. Inflation for the same period equals 21%. When you analyze the entire cost of a meal at Club 33 (27% increase in dues, the loss of several privileges and an 86% increase in food costs) prices have risen astronomically in the previous 10 year period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post
    As above, what's to "push back" about?
    I am glad to see a different point of view expressed here. To be honest, you are the first member who has expressed that that they are ok with these changes. My reference to “push back” is to the numerous members who have openly expressed complete dissatisfaction with both the current levels of service and the new policy changes. My point is that if a large number intend to complain, you have to be willing to withdraw your business and move on if you don’t find value in the current offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post
    I'm not sure what your point is here. Can you find stickershock restaurants all over the world? Of course. Is lunch or dinner at Club 33 idiotically out of line with the cuisine or overall dining experience? I don't think so.
    On this we will have to disagree. I won’t argue with anyone if they find value with their meal at Club 33. For me personally, I think a minimum food charge of $80.00 (ignoring the cost of admission and membership) is out of line with the cuisine. In fairness to all, the majority of Club 33 diners are paying for what they consider to be a rare experience.
    Last edited by Disneynut; 01-12-2012 at 06:24 AM.

  10. #295

    • Rock Star Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13,256

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Well, it's only "rare" to everyone else. You've dined there a lot of times.

    You simply have to ask yourself if you need that experience (and the pleasure of knowing you have something that others don't) enough to pay for it annually.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  11. #296

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    1,171

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Saw this posted on Facebook today:

    I am a 49er faithful with season tickets dating back to Kezar - the
    new stadium costs at Santa Clara will be partially funded by season
    ticket holders paying for Stadium Building License fees - my current
    seats on the 40 yard line will require me to pay $ 30,000 PER SEAT to
    continue to be a ticket holder in the new stadium, and my current
    tickets, which cost $ 129/game, will jump to $ 350 per seat, or $
    3500 for a season ticket of 10 games.

    This is outrageous - who the hell is going to fork out $ 30,000 with
    no ownership in the stadium? This heavy handed crap really sucks and Faithful fans deserve better.

    Just thought you would appreciate that there are similar issues elsewhere.
    The Mur
    ______________________________________________
    Two different worlds.....we live in two different worlds

  12. #297

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    6 hours from the House of Mouse
    Posts
    3,501

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Club tickets won't come cheap at Santa Clara 49ers stadium - San Jose Mercury News

    BUT, the difference is, you will be getting more instead of less.
    If you see a cute yellow lab puppy with a yellow cape, WAVE! It might be us! (Or it may be someone else that lurks here!) Thank you for asking before you pet! Next trip, Dec 22-Jan 3rd.

  13. #298

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    1,171

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    That was my point - some will be fine with what they get and other will feel that it is an unreasonable change.

    The long-standing 49er fan who has outstanding seats will not have those same seats and is being asked to pay even more. As noted from the item posted, I don't think he feels he is getting more.
    The Mur
    ______________________________________________
    Two different worlds.....we live in two different worlds

  14. #299

    • Hiding from the Sheeple
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    591

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by themur View Post
    That was my point - some will be fine with what they get and other will feel that it is an unreasonable change.

    The long-standing 49er fan who has outstanding seats will not have those same seats and is being asked to pay even more. As noted from the item posted, I don't think he feels he is getting more.
    In the end, we all have different opinions about what constitutes value. We have a similar system at my local soccer stadium (I don't live in the U.S.). They built a new stadium two years ago and sold the higher end seats and all of the suites for what amounts to a lifetime subscription.

    I did find the article on the 49's interesting as the team or stadium authority is clearly trying to give more in the way of benefits to the customer as they know they are going to face some resistance when you triple the price.

    As I said before, I really have no place arguing with anyone who feels they are getting value for their money. I was simply responding to the changes with my personal opinion. For a while it seemed to be the same opinion of every member who has voiced their feelings.

  15. #300

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    154

    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    How many guests were you allowed to sign-in prior to 2001? How many guests are you allowed to sign-in after 2001? How many guests are you allowed to sign-in today? When you consider the historical cost of a one day pass (2000=$41.00, 2001=$43.00, 2011= $80.00) I would say this is a significant loss in benefits while the cost of yearly dues has only increased.
    Two generally-different ways of evaluating a Club 33 membership seem to be emerging here: (1) as a member/spouse private club access, or (2) a means of comping nonmembers into the Parks and the Club.

    Absent Club reservation statistics, one assumes that the reason for capping the latter at 50@/year is because its use has increased to the point where dues-paying members cannot get reservations for themselves, particularly on holidays or special-event dates. To me it seems only reasonable to limit comps/member to alleviate this; and again I don't think that 50@/year is an unreasonable limitation for close friends/special occasions.

    I do however find fault with the word “abuse” as there was not previously a written policy regarding how many reservations per year were appropriate.
    If overuse of the comp-privilege became the problem, presumably it was not anticipated, hence no previous guidelines or restrictions. Now apparently it needs to be handled, and a policy applicable to all members is the fair way to do this. We have freeway speed limits not because everyone would drive unsafely without them, but because some would.

    Certainly my favorite restaurant would not be angry at me for sending referrals their way.
    Your favorite restaurant does not charge a high annual membership fee for reservation access. Also remember that Club 33's dining room is very small, so reservations are that much tighter.

    Once again, many see this is a loss of benefits. At the time that many members made a financial decision to purchase their membership, many relied on this privilege to justify the cost. I understand and support Club 33’s right to change any policy or benefit as the contract is on a year to year basis. I also support a members’ right to feel as though they have been stripped of a fairly large benefit.
    As above, the new policy is actually a trade-off between reduced access for non-dues-paying nonmembers and increased access for dues-paying members. I frankly favor the latter, particularly since the ability to comp nonmember friends has not been eliminated, just reduced to a non-overuse level.

    I truly believe this move is intended to almost double the membership ranks.
    Theoretically if reducing comp/nonmember reservations frees significant dining room space, Club membership could be increased to the point where it is comfortably utilized. It would take some time to evaluate this under the 2012 rules, of course. If clogged nonmember reservations were merely replaced by clogged member reservations caused by a substantial membership increase, then the Club would indeed have eliminated the benefit trade-off.

    As you know, they have been trying to find a way to bring those on the wait-list into the fold for quite some time. The concept of another membership club failed and I believe this to be the new effort to clear out that waiting list.
    I wasn't aware that the Club was trying to do anything with the waiting list except just let it trickle normally along. Understandably it will shrink because of the Platinum prices.

    I hadn't heard about "another membership club" unless you are referring to the DCA 1901 Lounge. If so, it seems to be going ahead, and Platinums are welcome to it. I haven't heard whether DCA plans to make 1901 membership separately available; that would be an interesting question.

    Personally, I am shocked at how anyone would perceive a loss of benefits as a move to benefit the membership as a whole.
    To the extent that the comp-restriction increases member access, I would say that it's a beneficial tradeoff, not a loss.

    I am simply expressing my opinion and echoing the thoughts of many who have come on here to complain.
    In this case I think the complaint does not take the beneficial tradeoff into due consideration. But concerning complaints generally, propose solutions, and not just to Micechat but to the Parkpeople responsible. When you have an idea about improving Club 33, send a letter to the Manager about it. If you get it back folded into a paper airplane, then you can Micegrump with justification.

    My reference to “push back” is to the numerous members who have openly expressed complete dissatisfaction with both the current levels of service and the new policy changes. My point is that if a large number intend to complain, you have to be willing to withdraw your business and move on if you don’t find value in the current offer.
    I wouldn't mind Club 33 instituting some sort of feedback mechanism: member questionnaires, perhaps a members' forum or YahooGroup with Club staff participation. One problem with the existing situation is that changes aren't fielded to the membership before they're finalized. If you can identify and fix problems before they happen, so much the nicer for everyone.

    I think a minimum food charge of $80.00 (ignoring the cost of admission and membership) is out of line with the cuisine. In fairness to all, the majority of Club 33 diners are paying for what they consider to be a rare experience.
    I didn't notice $80@-minimum in the recent mailing. Is that lunch, dinner, brunch, or what?
    ______
    Rachane

Similar Threads

  1. Name changes for Busch parks...
    By TDLFAN in forum SeaWorld
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-06-2006, 10:08 AM
  2. New Changes For Snow White
    By DisneyFunGuy in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 03-30-2006, 11:17 PM
  3. Animation Building Changes for DCA
    By JiminyCricketFan in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 07-14-2005, 01:28 PM
  4. Club 33 - Down for Refurb?
    By tolowmoe in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-01-2005, 06:05 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •