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  1. #751

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcon10t View Post
    Here is the bigger issue. People who submitted their names in 1996 were offered invitations in the 2001-2003 time frame, so you wouldn't have received the 2007 letter, as you would have been classified as "declining" the invitation.

    (Mods - I think we aren't supposed to be putting a certain name on the boards?)
    Oh No.... Please tell Me I didn't mess up again.....
    Should I PM a Mod and ask them to delete My Posts.....?

    How would I go about that?
    Thanks Malcon....
    "Ready to help CREATE and HONOR the MAGIC!..... "

  2. #752

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    D23 is a separate club. You wouldn't want D23 members having priority access to Club 33 events, would you? I understand that many Club 33 members are D23 members, but it is still a separate club.
    Giving C33 members first access to large events, like the Carsland previews, does seem like a useful benefit.

    I would not expect C33 to get access to all D23 events.

  3. #753

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by TigTug View Post
    Oh No.... Please tell Me I didn't mess up again.....
    Should I PM a Mod and ask them to delete My Posts.....?

    How would I go about that?
    Thanks Malcon....
    Relax! You didn't commit any major Disney felony, more of an innocent Mouse-demeanor. One little posting on some random chat site won't effect your membership and I doubt Disney/Club 33 secret police are out there hunting for rogue reservations
    Just have a lovely weekend.

  4. #754

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsuch View Post
    Giving C33 members first access to large events, like the Carsland previews, does seem like a useful benefit.

    I would not expect C33 to get access to all D23 events.
    Large events, yes. D23 events, no. D23 members would be pretty upset if Club 33 members had first dibs on D23 events, and rightfully so.
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
    .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- -. -.-- --- -. . / -... --- - .... . .-. / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..

  5. #755

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    D23 is a separate club. You wouldn't want D23 members having priority access to Club 33 events, would you? I understand that many Club 33 members are D23 members, but it is still a separate club.
    I signed up My whole family with D23 memberships, but just was not impressed.
    Not only did they get the order wrong on that, the cards weren't printed correctly.

    We didn't renew. But, I really thought they would have a few more D23 special events..
    I think C33 members should have that as an extra perk.

    Why not?
    "Ready to help CREATE and HONOR the MAGIC!..... "

  6. #756

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    From a business standpoint I can see why Disney would want to fill the tables with new members instead of guests of members. They wanted the membership dues along with the dinner tabs. The blame was an attempt to save face on Disney's part. I feel blaming the membership for what is a fairly obvious money grab was wrong. Disney greatly benefited from this "abuse". To my knowledge there wasn't an increase in incidents from guests of members and members themselves didn't have a great deal of difficulty getting reservations. If there had been I'm sure Al would have reported it. So again this falls back on Disney, who in turn blamed a very influential and loyal fan base instead of admitting why they made this decision. Honestly the decision could have been made and no reason given; "terms subject to change without notice", so why blame the membership? There was no benefit in that.
    Congratulations! You now fully understand my argument, even some members can't grasp this. I won't spoil this moment by adding to what you wrote. Thanks for hanging in there and for supporting our argument.

  7. #757

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    Congratulations! You now fully understand my argument, even some members can't grasp this.
    It is not fair to suggest that members who don't agree with your position can't grasp your position. I think it really boils down to the perspective of the member. I, for one [although there are many others I have heard from], am perfectly fine with the changes that have been made and feel that, at least so far, the changes have improved my enjoyment of club membership. For members in my position, there is really no reason to get all that exercised about what may be perceived as false reasons for the changes or bad corporate motives for the changes. On the other hand, if a member is unhappy with the changes, one might expect that member to also be unhappy with the stated reasons for the changes and the "true" motives for the changes. I can certainly "grasp" the criticisms that have been leveled against management -- I just don't see a reason to be upset now over the background of what I view as positive developments. I certainly understand that I may not like future changes made by this same management, but I choose not to be upset now over something negative that might (or might not) happen in the future. Again, I think it is more about the perspective of the member than the ability of a member to grasp an argument.

  8. #758

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by macindan View Post
    It is not fair to suggest that members who don't agree with your position can't grasp your position. I think it really boils down to the perspective of the member.
    Truth be told, the comment was not directed at you. You and I may not agree, but at least we are civil and neither one of us is stating that the other is wrong. As I said before, I am not against the changes. I am against how the changes were presented to me (and others). In the end, a positive result is just that. What I am unable to do is excuse the manner in which the changes are made and I am unable to give them credit as if the positive outcome was truly by design.

    I firmly believe that the positive change in terms of reservation availability is only temporary. I believe that they will continue to market new member invites until the point the club is once again booked solid. Certainly none of the staff are participating in the income from the sales of new memberships, they rely on gratuities. Will you still feel the same if the reservation system is once again jammed (now with new members)?

    Where you and I differ is that I refuse to give them a free pass on the how or why. To do so after so many years is sending the message that this behavior is acceptable. I do understand that my complaining is not likely to change anything but as long as they continue to solicit new business I feel it is important for everyone to have enough information to make an educated decision. I know this is not to everyone's liking, but the feedback I have received from potential members makes me feel it is time well spent.

    As I promised before, I will never judge or argue with anyone who finds value with the current offer. I can't argue with how you spend your funds and how you perceive value, loyalty or customer service. I hope everyone here will extend me the same courtesy.
    Last edited by Disneynut; 05-25-2012 at 07:15 PM.

  9. #759

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by macindan View Post
    I certainly understand that I may not like future changes made by this same management, but I choose not to be upset now over something negative that might (or might not) happen in the future. Again, I think it is more about the perspective of the member than the ability of a member to grasp an argument.
    You are far more forgiving than I.
    I found Disney's excuse for club benefit modifications to be nothing more than a condescending slap in the face to it's current members based purely on economic gain on their behalf. Removal of a previously given benefit which has, in fact, benefited Disney tremendously in both marketing and fiduciary income and has served as an important motivating factor in deciding to join for many of us, is unjustifiable.
    Disney benefited from our prior benefits, but they did not benefit enough! They saw more potential and wasted no time in placing a stranglehold on those benefits, motivated only by bottom line profits.
    As members, there should a stronger unification to stop Disney from removing any benefits.
    Most of us joined as our primary motivational factor was being able to enjoy the club for ourselves but the caveat that said club could also be utilized by our associates was for many, including myself, the primary gust of wind which swayed our final decision.
    Honestly, I've rarely ever had problems making reservations and I find it quite selfish of some to deprive others from enjoying the club and it's wonderful history just so they'll have an easier time making reservations. Bollocks!
    I believe this willingness to roll over and accept Disney's blatant cash grab is insulting and cowardly to say the least.
    Disney's excuses for these modifications are a cerebral insult and I for one am not buying into them, not in the slightest.
    The willingness of club members to allow Disney to remove past benefits will only 'green light' their accountants to make further cuts in the future. Especially if the club constituency has no back bone.
    For Pete's Dragon sake, stand up for yourselves!

  10. #760

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by macindan View Post
    It is not fair to suggest that members who don't agree with your position can't grasp your position. I think it really boils down to the perspective of the member. I, for one [although there are many others I have heard from], am perfectly fine with the changes that have been made and feel that, at least so far, the changes have improved my enjoyment of club membership. For members in my position, there is really no reason to get all that exercised about what may be perceived as false reasons for the changes or bad corporate motives for the changes. On the other hand, if a member is unhappy with the changes, one might expect that member to also be unhappy with the stated reasons for the changes and the "true" motives for the changes. I can certainly "grasp" the criticisms that have been leveled against management -- I just don't see a reason to be upset now over the background of what I view as positive developments. I certainly understand that I may not like future changes made by this same management, but I choose not to be upset now over something negative that might (or might not) happen in the future. Again, I think it is more about the perspective of the member than the ability of a member to grasp an argument.
    Regardless of how I or any of the members I know view the changes, my point was directed at the decision by Disney to blame individuals within the membership rank and file. Even if you view the overall changes in a positive light, the decision to blame was both distasteful and unnecessary. Disney made a business decision, either own up to it or remain silent behind the "without notice" clause. I know several members who are perfectly fine with the changes, but furious over that decision. As corporate individuals they can appreciate the difficulty of tough decisions, the integrity to own up to them and the character required to stand behind them. To blame individuals within the membership that steered hundreds of thousands of dollars into the Disney coffers was simply uncalled for.

    A positive benefit to the increased membership will hopefully be more members only events. That said the number of members allowed will likely increase, and the quality of said events may take a hit. If members aren't interested I'd expect Disney to offer the "extra" room to DVC or even D23! I can see a lot of "merged" events in the Club's future. Disney has already shown a willingness to promote it and even exploit it. THAT is what worries my friends most. They are afraid that being a member may mean a great deal less if "the exclusive events we previously enjoyed start to become overbooked fiascoes". Some on here have already drawn that comparison; why bother with 33 if DVC and D23 have their own "exclusives" concurrent or shortly after 33.
    Last edited by techskip; 05-25-2012 at 08:12 PM.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  11. #761

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by David A View Post
    Disney's excuses for these modifications are a cerebral insult and I for one am not buying into them, not in the slightest.
    The willingness of club members to allow Disney to remove past benefits will only 'green light' their accountants to make further cuts in the future. Especially if the club constituency has no back bone.
    For Pete's Dragon sake, stand up for yourselves!
    I support macindan's right to believe in whatever he wants to. Let's look at it from another angle. From what I understand (from his own statements) is that he upgraded to Platinum level. He bought into the new level because he clearly felt the benefits warranted the additional money. I don't think we will find someone who has found value in the offer, accepted the offer and who will then turn around bite the very hand that gave him the offer. Again, this is not a slam against him for his decision. I just know that I won't likely find support with him for how many of us feel we were treated.

  12. #762

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I guess the "abuse" comment by George (parroted by Al) is what is making me scratch my head. I confirmed with several individuals that Disney only comp'd the tickets if the members' invited parties ate at the Club. Otherwise, if the party just grabbed the "free" tickets and didn't eat at the Club, said member was on the hook for the tickets as well as a possible "no show" fee. Bottom line being that the Club benefited from this unspoken rule with extra foot traffic. Opus even alluded to it as being the whole reason this benefit was tolerated by Disney. Obviously Disney wasn't losing money from this practice.

    From a business standpoint I can see why Disney would want to fill the tables with new members instead of guests of members. They wanted the membership dues along with the dinner tabs.
    This path of logic doesn't add up though. Reducing guests alone isn't going to increase potential memberships.. especially when you jack the price at the same time. You won't convert people into members by cutting them off as potential guests.

    The change's only upside is if you can fill those seats with members instead of guests.

    And if you follow what you say about there is little to no contention for seats... any desire to expand membership can be done independently of changing the comp ticket rules.

    So if there is no contention for space.. what's the connection between the 'money grab' and changing the comp ticket rules at the same time? A valuable perk that would help draw those new members in?

    It can't be both those things at the same time.. they don't support each other.

    If the # of members has been so stable over the years - someone is obviously holding back very strongly against expansion. You say there is no contention for space.. so if you want to expand, why deal with the comp ticket issue at all? The club only serves to lose if the conditions are as you say if they reduce guests and don't add more members... which they made difficult to due by jacking the prices way up.
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  13. #763

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    This path of logic doesn't add up though. Reducing guests alone isn't going to increase potential memberships.. especially when you jack the price at the same time. You won't convert people into members by cutting them off as potential guests.
    I don't agree...it makes perfect sense and it is very logical. Disney knows full well that you can't triple the price of membership only to have your new members call for a reservation only to be told that the dining room is at capacity. You can't justify the existence of new membership (much less 100 or more) if the club continues on at capacity. Reservations for guests typically outweigh member reservations 4 to 1 (as evidenced by the now empty dining room). Blaming the membership was a calculated plan that backfired.

    They assumed that members would point the finger at each other or those who were using the system the most. They certainly had no problems with members resigning out of anger or frustration only to replace them with someone willing to pay triple the price. They just did not plan on a large number of people coming together to dispute their claims and to do so in such a public manner.

  14. #764

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    This path of logic doesn't add up though. Reducing guests alone isn't going to increase potential memberships.. especially when you jack the price at the same time. You won't convert people into members by cutting them off as potential guests.

    The change's only upside is if you can fill those seats with members instead of guests.

    And if you follow what you say about there is little to no contention for seats... any desire to expand membership can be done independently of changing the comp ticket rules.

    So if there is no contention for space.. what's the connection between the 'money grab' and changing the comp ticket rules at the same time? A valuable perk that would help draw those new members in?

    It can't be both those things at the same time.. they don't support each other.

    If the # of members has been so stable over the years - someone is obviously holding back very strongly against expansion. You say there is no contention for space.. so if you want to expand, why deal with the comp ticket issue at all? The club only serves to lose if the conditions are as you say if they reduce guests and don't add more members... which they made difficult to due by jacking the prices way up.
    The reason behind the decision stated by George and parroted by Al was that some members were abusing the unlimited comps. IF said individuals were in fact abusing the comps that would mean an excessive amount of Guests dining at 33. Following Disney's logic it would need to be a substantial percentage of the diners per day that were not members and clogging up the reservations. At the same time you have a long waiting list of individuals who have openly stated they are willing to pay a premium to become members and dine at the club. Disney claimed they lacked the space to open up the membership. So... how do you open up tables, increase membership, and discourage excessive Guests all in the same decision? Simple... cap the number of comps. Opus even alluded to the fact that the unlimited comp was utilized to fill tables. It worked, for decades, now they need said tables for members who pay dues.

    Flynn... assuming that the members that "abused" the comps brought in "thousands" of Guests as suspected... how much is that at $100 a head not counting tips? How much more does Disney stand to make if they open up the membership (thereby collecting initiation and dues) as opposed to only gleaning $100 a head dinners? It's oversimplified but the point remains, this was a money grab.

    They still offer 50 comps and a variety of other benefits to entice potential members. To those who never cared or never really utilized comps this is a non issue. To those who never knew the old perks it's a non issue. To those who complained that the reservations were difficult this may help. Disney is still looking to fill the club, and I suspect the reservations will again become an issue. The difference is it will be a higher percentage of members.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  15. #765

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post

    Flynn... assuming that the members that "abused" the comps brought in "thousands" of Guests as suspected... how much is that at $100 a head not counting tips? How much more does Disney stand to make if they open up the membership (thereby collecting initiation and dues) as opposed to only gleaning $100 a head dinners? It's oversimplified but the point remains, this was a money grab.
    Wonderfully stated Skipper, you're correct in your reasoning and logic.
    Anyone who has friends working for Disney knows darn good and well that the company is no longer a warm and fuzzy corporation with the interests of their employees at heart. Club members are apparently being treated in much the same way as cast members. Sadly, club members don't have a union in which to meet and discuss and fight back and we're actually paying for the mistreatment.
    The energy wave caused by one rock tossed into a still pond can produce more impact on the pond's surface than the actual rock itself striking the bottom. This action by Disney if allowed to go unchallenged will only lead to additional cuts in the future and if everyone merely bends over and assumes the position, well, I don't know how you can look in a mirror.
    Justifying the cuts within your own minds is such an easy way out, it's what Disney wants.
    A man being executed won't find the execution any less fateful if Mickey drops the capsule in the water versus an anonymous executioner but Disney has some of you so blinded that you would disagree!
    For those joining platinum, that's terrific, have fun and write your checks but don't be surprised if those benefits are changed next year. You've been warned, think your decision through carefully.
    Why anyone would join platinum is actually comical as you're actually getting so much less than we had as previous members and that's sad. But, this is America and you're free to make your own decisions.
    Disney should have retained our unlimited reservation/comp'd entries when dining and for those wanting platinum, added additional benefits such for AP's for all Disney parks worldwide, 1901 Lounge access and so on. THEN AND ONLY THEN WOULD THE BENEFITS HAVE JUSTIFIED THE EXPENSE.
    IF THE BENEFITS WOULD HAVE BEEN TRULY SPECIAL, I WOULD HAVE JOINED PLATINUM IN A HEART BEAT, MANY OF US WOULD HAVE. COME ON, ADMIT IT, YOU KNOW YOU WOULD HAVE!

    Too many of you are so hung up on nonsensical logic trying to utilize deductive reasoning to justify Disney's action, you're simply arguing semantics. Wasted breath on windows which are so covered with condensation you can't see out! Why don't you practice drawing mouse ears on the window and see if a Disney exec will walk by and hire you. Of course, your benefits and pay will be terrible, but you're apparently willing to accept this if that is what Disney tells you.

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