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  1. #886

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    While I am not challenging your statement that the cast member you dealt with was more professional, my argument about this entire situation remains. Shouldn't EVERYONE who is being pitched a $35,000 membership be treated with dignity and respect? Shouldn't EACH and EVERY cast member selling this be a complete and absolute professional?

    I find it truly sad that any of us would need to come to this thread to excuse behavior by any cast member or other person associated with Club 33. The fact that many potential members have made the same comment is proof that Disney has no idea what they are doing and that they clearly have no clue how to market to such a high-end customer. It is truly a testament to how far Club 33 has fallen.
    Two things. First, I am not excusing any behavior. I agree that is poor and not in Disney's best interest. Second, I wouldn't say it is a sign that Disney doesn't know what they are doing. To me, it points more to inadequate training. The person whom I dealt with (can't post names) was very professional. I don't doubt that some have had bad experiences. There seems to be a training issue with these CMs.
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
    .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- -. -.-- --- -. . / -... --- - .... . .-. / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..

  2. #887

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    . You are hoping for change, but only the change that you want to see. That is human nature.
    Human nature? Really? Wow, that's very nonsensical. While greed may be a product of human nature, compassion may be a product of human nature, in truth, when things are going well and all are happy, change is often the enemy which we avoid. THAT, is human nature and any one in the field of psychology will confirm it. Humans don't like change when the status quo is comfortable and secure.
    Club 33 gold level membership benefits were comfortable, secure and did not need to be changed!
    Greed, a negative aspect of our psyche (human nature) was the driving force behind the recent change in our benefits.
    Sorry fellows, I'm not one to beat around the bush or play well in your sandbox. If it needs to be said, I'll say it.

  3. #888

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    Two things. First, I am not excusing any behavior. I agree that is poor and not in Disney's best interest. Second, I wouldn't say it is a sign that Disney doesn't know what they are doing. To me, it points more to inadequate training. The person whom I dealt with (can't post names) was very professional. I don't doubt that some have had bad experiences. There seems to be a training issue with these CMs.
    When I say "excusing" bad behavior, I was not directing it at you. I am trying to speak in general terms to keep this thread friendly and on topic. With all that we disagree on, I am sure that we can agree that with such a high priced offering, "training issues" are simply inexcusable.

  4. #889

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by David A View Post
    Human nature? Really? Wow, that's very nonsensical. While greed may be a product of human nature, compassion may be a product of human nature, in truth, when things are going well and all are happy, change is often the enemy which we avoid.
    You just acknowledge that greed is part of human nature. In some regards, we all want more, don't we?

    And as far as this goes:

    Club 33 gold level membership benefits were comfortable, secure and did not need to be changed!
    There were certainly lots of members that wanted changes prior to this overhaul. I am sure you can dig up lots of threads about dissatisfaction with the direction of the club. Lack of quality events. Disappointment with the notion that the club was losing it's "Disney touch." There were complaints about getting reservations. etc.

    ---------- Post added 05-31-2012 at 11:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    With all that we disagree on, I am sure that we can agree that with such a high priced offering, "training issues" are simply inexcusable.
    Absolutely.
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
    .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- -. -.-- --- -. . / -... --- - .... . .-. / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..

  5. #890

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    I am sure you can dig up lots of threads about dissatisfaction with the direction of the club. Lack of quality events. Disappointment with the notion that the club was losing it's "Disney touch.
    Yay!
    I'm so pleased you wrote this!
    Good Sir, if removing benefits was to help increase morale for Club 33 members, then someone at Disney needs one of those space captain's cap from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy where a lemon is squeezed to help increase brain activity.
    I have a lemon tree in my backyard and I'd be more than happy to supply all they need!
    Oops! I retract that statement. My lemon tree isn't that large!

  6. #891

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by David A View Post
    Yay!
    I'm so pleased you wrote this!
    Good Sir, if removing benefits was to help increase morale for Club 33 members, then someone at Disney needs one of those space captain's cap from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy where a lemon is squeezed to help increase brain activity.
    I have a lemon tree in my backyard and I'd be more than happy to supply all they need!
    Oops! I retract that statement. My lemon tree isn't that large!
    David A, you need to reread what you are posting. Every time I directly comment on one of your posts, you go off on some tangent making statements that are not related. Who made any mention that removing benefits was to boost morale? You said, and I quote:

    Club 33 gold level membership benefits were comfortable, secure and did not need to be changed!
    That statement is abjectly false to many a member. Everyone who has read Micechat for any length of time knows that many a member has had issues with the club prior to these changes.
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
    .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- -. -.-- --- -. . / -... --- - .... . .-. / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..

  7. #892

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    I find it truly sad that any of us would need to come to this thread to excuse behavior by any cast member or other person associated with Club 33. The fact that many potential members have made the same comment is proof that Disney has no idea what they are doing and that they clearly have no clue how to market to such a high-end customer. It is truly a testament to how far Club 33 has fallen.
    Two thoughts on the subject:

    Could it be that up to now Disney has not been catering to high-end customers? Frankly, I always thought you were paying more for your Gold memberships. But you are not and I find it a bit surprising how much of a bargain it has been all these years. Not that I ever wanted to join, it is not my kind of thing. Still, while it may be a lot of money for some, those are not high-end prices.

    With this Platinum level, Disney is moving closer to the range of high-end prices for clubs. I think someone even wrote a post about it above. Still, Disney is not yet in the range of what some people I know spend on a single work of art (or more) in a year. I bring that up because the Wall Street Journal is of the opinion now that contemporary art (collecting) is the new discriminator of wealth and not club memberships.

    While I was surprised with how little a Gold membership cost, I was not surprised by the behavior of the CM on the phone. It is actually refreshing. I find more fault with stores like Hermes that don't put prices on the items in their stores. Or, some LA galleries that no longer post prices at the reception desk. High-end customers don't always receive the most forthright reception from high-end retailers.

  8. #893

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    Smile Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    Everyone who has read Micechat for any length of time knows that many a member has had issues with the club prior to these changes.
    I've said it before and am happy to say it again: If you don't like something about C33's design and operation, telephone, write, or meet with staff or management and discuss it with them. Take the time to come up with a better idea and share it with them. Maybe there are reasons why it won't work, but it also might be something they hadn't thought of yet, and will kick around at future policy meetings. Sure, Disney has a profit motive, but it's also interested in its public image and reputation, and wants Club 33 to be liked and enjoyed by its membership.

    I like Osky's signoff about the moderate pig. Let's also remember the parable about the optimist & pessimist boys: The pessimist was placed in a room filled with toys, but refused to play with any of them. "What's the use - they'll all just break sooner or later." The optimist, placed in a room filled with manure, seized a shovel and started to dig: "There's got to be a pony down here somewhere!"

    So dig.
    ______
    Rachane

  9. #894

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by DL714 View Post
    Two thoughts on the subject:

    Could it be that up to now Disney has not been catering to high-end customers? Frankly, I always thought you were paying more for your Gold memberships. But you are not and I find it a bit surprising how much of a bargain it has been all these years. Not that I ever wanted to join, it is not my kind of thing. Still, while it may be a lot of money for some, those are not high-end prices.

    With this Platinum level, Disney is moving closer to the range of high-end prices for clubs. I think someone even wrote a post about it above. Still, Disney is not yet in the range of what some people I know spend on a single work of art (or more) in a year. I bring that up because the Wall Street Journal is of the opinion now that contemporary art (collecting) is the new discriminator of wealth and not club memberships.

    While I was surprised with how little a Gold membership cost, I was not surprised by the behavior of the CM on the phone. It is actually refreshing. I find more fault with stores like Hermes that don't put prices on the items in their stores. Or, some LA galleries that no longer post prices at the reception desk. High-end customers don't always receive the most forthright reception from high-end retailers.
    I don't argue what you are saying regarding the amount. That said the treatment of any potential customer in such a poor manner ("this is the price, do need I to continue?") is appalling. The fact that Disney was not, until now, catering to this customer does not excuse poor behavior.

    I for one enjoy Hermes and Louis Vuitton. My store reps in Hawaii, Mexico and the U.S. always treat me with great respect and follow up most visits with a gift and a hand written note. I think your analogy is actually backwards. The stores attempt to focus on quality and customer service FIRST, with pricing SECOND.

    We are all different in what we want from a retail environment. What I do not want is someone guessing my worth, value or credit based on criteria that has nothing to do with my ability to pay. If I want to consider or examine a product or even a service, I fully expect the sales person to spend as much time as it requires answering my questions so I can make an informed decision.

    Please keep in mind, this is what the entire thread is about (at least for me), Club 33 should give full and honest disclosure to everyone so they can evaluate the offer. I don't think members were given full and honest information when they were offered this year’s renewal and I don't believe for one second that prospective members are being given honest information so they may consider if $35,000 is warranted.

  10. #895

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    What I do not want is someone guessing my worth, value or credit based on criteria that has nothing to do with my ability to pay. If I want to consider or examine a product or even a service, I fully expect the sales person to spend as much time as it requires answering my questions so I can make an informed decision.
    That is exactly right. I hate when people examine net worth in the sales arena. So what if person A has 10x the assets of person B? That doesn't mean that person B is going to buy your product, or more than person A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    Please keep in mind, this is what the entire thread is about (at least for me), Club 33 should give full and honest disclosure to everyone so they can evaluate the offer. I don't think members were given full and honest information when they were offered this year’s renewal and I don't believe for one second that prospective members are being given honest information so they may consider if $35,000 is warranted.
    I am struggling with this. We are 895 posts in, and I don't know what is dishonest about the information being given to prospective members.
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
    .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- -. -.-- --- -. . / -... --- - .... . .-. / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..

  11. #896

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    Question Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    I don't think members were given full and honest information when they were offered this year’s renewal.
    Hmm, just re-read my renewal correspondence from C33. Kindly quote what in it is "incomplete and dishonest".

    I don't believe for one second that prospective members are being given honest information so they may consider if $35,000 is warranted.
    Again, please quote what "dishonest" information C33 is giving out, thanks.
    ______
    Rachane

  12. #897

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    I am struggling with this. We are 895 posts in, and I don't know what is dishonest about the information being given to prospective members.
    They lied...I am not backing off of this statement. They claimed member abuse where there was none. They claimed changes were being made to benefit the membership when they were really designed to allow for additional memberships to be sold. I know of many members who asked specific questions (such as the addition of new memberships) and were lied to. I can't and won't continue to give them a pass on this. I don't think they are being honest with members about their plan for the future.

    I don't believe they are being honest with the new or potential members about the state of affairs within Club 33. I don't think they are being honest in their marketing about how the benefits can change at any moment. They are clearly promoting one thing to justify the initiation fee with very little disclosure about how things can and will change.

    Again, we know that some here are happy no matter what. I won't get into a back and forth debate with these types, it serves no purpose. For everyone else, my version of honesty goes beyond the typed word in a contract. Omissions, half-truths, evasion and feigning ignorance are all part of the deception (lies) in my book.

  13. #898

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    They lied...I am not backing off of this statement. They claimed member abuse where there was none. They claimed changes were being made to benefit the membership when they were really designed to allow for additional memberships to be sold. I know of many members who asked specific questions (such as the addition of new memberships) and were lied to. I can't and won't continue to give them a pass on this. I don't think they are being honest with members about their plan for the future.

    I don't believe they are being honest with the new or potential members about the state of affairs within Club 33. I don't think they are being honest in their marketing about how the benefits can change at any moment. They are clearly promoting one thing to justify the initiation fee with very little disclosure about how things can and will change.

    Again, we know that some here are happy no matter what. I won't get into a back and forth debate with these types, it serves no purpose. For everyone else, my version of honesty goes beyond the typed word in a contract. Omissions, half-truths, evasion and feigning ignorance are all part of the deception (lies) in my book.
    I think it is fair to say that most of this is not "information being given to prospective members." Saying they lied to existing members about new memberships has nothing to do with information being given to prospective members. About the only thing in your post that has to do with information being given to prospective members is this:

    I don't believe they are being honest with the new or potential members about the state of affairs within Club 33. I don't think they are being honest in their marketing about how the benefits can change at any moment. They are clearly promoting one thing to justify the initiation fee with very little disclosure about how things can and will change.
    Unless you have been in discussions with the club as a prospective member, this is just all speculation on your part. I just searched the current rules brochure being given to prospective members. It talks about "subject to change" 14 times. It is even clearly defined as its own bullet point, Rule 2.6. It was addressed with me on the phone by the CM who sent me the packet. I think that is plenty of due diligence.
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
    .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- -. -.-- --- -. . / -... --- - .... . .-. / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..

  14. #899

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    I don't argue what you are saying, it is just a matter of how we interpret
    things. I have listened in on a few phone calls and I do feel they are not
    being honest about the state of things at the club. In addition, I am baffled
    by how the cast members seem to know very little about what is being offered,
    constantly stating "Let me check with my supervisor"...Is this on
    purpose so they can claim ignorance later or is this really just poor training
    as we have already discussed.

    I do understand that not everybody will see things my way. I can live with
    that. What troubles me is the attitude of some who continue to argue that
    because they are happy with things, the rest of us should be happy as well.
    That is just silly and arguing with these types is clearly getting me nowhere.

  15. #900

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    What troubles me is the attitude of some who continue to argue that because they are happy with things, the rest of us should be happy as well.
    That is just silly and arguing with these types is clearly getting me nowhere.
    Aren't others arguing that because they are unhappy with things, the rest of us should be as well? I mean, it apparently is going both ways.
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
    .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- -. -.-- --- -. . / -... --- - .... . .-. / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..

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