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  1. #901

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    Post Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneynut View Post
    They lied...I am not backing off of this statement. They claimed member abuse where there was none.
    The renewal letter makes no claim of "member abuse". It says simply: "In order to maintain the exclusivity of the Club, we are placing a cap on the number of complimentary guest admissions." The implication is that this cap was needed because some members were doling out comps in such quantities and/or with such repetitiveness that C33 was becoming exploited for non-dues-paying persons. I see nothing unreasonable about this corrective action; quite the contrary. And there is obviously no "C33 lie" here.

    They claimed changes were being made to benefit the membership when they were really designed to allow for additional memberships to be sold.
    Here you are making a personal supposition, not documenting a "claim lie". Does a cap on excessive nonmember access to C33 make possible some increase in dues-paying membership without overcrowding reservations? Again quite possibly and reasonably. There is no "lie" here either.

    As noticed by myself and as I recall by some others here, since these changes went into effect it has become much easier to obtain C33 dining reservations at short notice, which is certainly beneficial in a membership dining club.

    I know of many members who asked specific questions (such as the addition of new memberships) and were lied to. I can't and won't continue to give them a pass on this.
    Then cite the specific question and the specific C33 "lie" given in response.

    I don't think they are being honest with members about their plan for the future.
    Please cite the statement(s) concerning future plans and why you call these "dishonest".

    I don't believe they are being honest with the new or potential members about the state of affairs within Club 33.
    Again, please cite specific "dishonest" statements concerning the state of affairs within C33, whatever that is.

    I don't think they are being honest in their marketing about how the benefits can change at any moment. They are clearly promoting one thing to justify the initiation fee with very little disclosure about how things can and will change.
    The C33 Rules brochure makes it explicitly clear that all benefits are subject to change at any time, at the Club's discretion.

    Again, we know that some here are happy no matter what. I won't get into a back and forth debate with these types, it serves no purpose.
    I've read through the whole thread and don't recall anyone expressing "happy no matter what" sentiments. But if you are going to make repeated accusations about "lying" and "dishonesty", which are serious allegations, then I think you should either substantiate them or cease them.

    For everyone else, my version of honesty goes beyond the typed word in a contract. Omissions, half-truths, evasion and feigning ignorance are all part of the deception (lies) in my book.
    Well, the whole point of a printed contract (in this case the C33 Rules pamphlet) is to spell everything out clearly and for the record so that there won't be misunderstanding. The same holds true for the FAQ letter that C33 sent out subsequent to the 2012 renewal notice.

    In any major set of changes there are also going to be some grey areas that will need smoothing-out in practice. Because a C33 staffer answering the telephone might not have instant/perfect/complete answers to all such questions does not automatically translate into a conspiracy.
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  2. #902

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by David A View Post
    Human nature? Really? Wow, that's very nonsensical. While greed may be a product of human nature, compassion may be a product of human nature, in truth, when things are going well and all are happy, change is often the enemy which we avoid. THAT, is human nature and any one in the field of psychology will confirm it.
    Sociology is also associated with the study of Human Nature, perhaps it could be confirmed by someone with a degree in that field. Such as The DLR president

    "Change" is one of the essential elements of the continued success do Disneyland. The fact that Club 33 membership has remained relatively unchanged conflicts with that basic precept.

    California Adventure and Downtown Disney significantly changed the resort, so it might have made sense to revise the club rules 10 years ago. The remodel of The Disneyland Hotel and reopening of California Adventure make this another good time to change the club.

  3. #903

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    I'd be curious if the old contracts actually said 'unlimited' as well.. or if they simply didn't state a limit.

    "free passes for abc use..' vs "unlimited free passes for abc use..."
    Last edited by penguinsoda; 06-01-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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  4. #904

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    I'd be curious if the old contracts actually said 'unlimited' as well.. or if they simply didn't state a limit.

    "free passes for abc use..' vs "unlimited free passes for abc use..."
    If we're going back to the abuse conversation I'd also like to know how Disney can play the victim card, bearing no responsibility, when they clearly benefited from the "abuse".

    At the rate they are going they will likely be through the list and taking walk-ins by Christmas (not joking). This is why cards are being handed out at the mere mention of the Club. I've heard mention of flyers to be mailed and even an online campaign. It's pathetic. Disney, the massive marketing machine, is having "issues" marketing to high end clientele. As hard as it is to believe; some in upper management are "stunned" that those who waited patiently on the list aren't "tearing down the door". The truth is the list never had prerequisites. Minor adjustments in dues each year are to be expected. Tripling the going rate is an entirely different conversation. I don't think Disney expected the sticker shock they're now seeing.

    The phone conversations are another topic entirely. I would suspect that staffing levels and training are not where everyone thinks they should be. That's based on my own experiences with Disney Co as well as friends who are currently employed by them. Your phone experience will depend on the individual CM's experience, attitude, time of day and number of calls they've made/answered. This doesn't excuse a bad experience, but it may shed light on how it happened. From what I've been privy to a substantial amount of calls "drop" when the caller is informed of the price increase. It doesn't matter when said increase is mentioned. Out of respect it should be one of the last details mentioned, if mentioned at all. This is an exclusive Club. The CM's answering the phone calls from prospective members are representing the Club whether they realize it or not.

    Does anyone have a quote from George alluding that the change was due to "member abuse"?
    Last edited by penguinsoda; 06-01-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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  5. #905

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    At the rate they are going they will likely be through the list and taking walk-ins by Christmas (not joking).
    You are the second to make that prediction.
    (I was first)

    The target Platinum member is not on the waiting list, but "walk-in" to the Grand Californian every day.

  6. #906

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsuch View Post

    California Adventure and Downtown Disney significantly changed the resort, so it might have made sense to revise the club rules 10 years ago. The remodel of The Disneyland Hotel and reopening of California Adventure make this another good time to change the club.
    California Disaster was in fact, a disaster and Disney has been back peddling for many years trying to correct their mistake. A board walk? Seriously? That's about the most un-Disney theme every created.
    Lassiter's brilliance has been one of the biggest saving graces of the DCA.
    As for the club, it was never meant to be a direct part of Disneyland, it was a separate little entity, special in every way. The rules should have stayed exactly as they were and we wouldn't be here tossing peanuts at one another discussing TDA's total lack of management skill. Ugh!

  7. #907

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by David A View Post
    California Disaster was in fact, a disaster and Disney has been back peddling for many years trying to correct their mistake. A board walk? Seriously? That's about the most un-Disney theme every created.
    Lassiter's brilliance has been one of the biggest saving graces of the DCA.
    The Victorian Boardwalk, in and of itself, was not a bad decision for a theme. The execution of said theme left a lot to be desired. John, for all his creative abilities, has yet to install an original theme in DCA. He is relying entirely on his beloved Pixar. But I digress this isn't a thread about the many shortcomings of WDI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsuch View Post
    You are the second to make that prediction.
    (I was first)

    The target Platinum member is not on the waiting list, but "walk-in" to the Grand Californian every day.
    I will take this a step further and say that within the next decade I can see Club 33 dining becoming a DVC, ABD, or D23 "perk".

    "We", meaning MC members, can clearly see the benefit in tapping the Adventures By Disney, DVC, D23, Disney Cruise Line and Guest Hotel "whales" list (and yes those respective entities each have one). What many don't realize is that each unit operates independently under the "Disney" umbrella. They each have their own "list" and just like major casinos they guard said list very closely. There is very little cross pollination between these entities. That is why Disney Parks is having a hard time locating the clientele other entities have already cultivated. Each entity would rather utilize the Club as a perk for their "whales", then share the list and possibly lose said individuals. You see the exact same thing play out between the major casinos irrespective of who owns them. This is working to the benefit of the specific entity, not necessarily the benefit of the overall company. "Making me look good" mentality if you will.
    Last edited by techskip; 05-31-2012 at 06:32 PM.
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  8. #908

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    I have been following this thread since the beginning and I just wanted to throw in the details of our experience. We joined the waitlist in 04 and received our invite a little over two weeks ago. All CMs have been very nice on the telephone despite our barrage of questions. The CMs did ask us to hold several times to make sure their answers were correct and the Club 33 Rules booklet has confirmed everything to be correct as well as the fact that everything is subject to change. We truly feel like all of our questions and concerns have been addressed in a very straightforward and professional manner so far.

    This thread has been very helpful in our considering of all issues, thank you.
    Last edited by Mr.Abominable; 05-31-2012 at 06:48 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  9. #909

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    Wink Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsuch View Post
    The target Platinum member is not on the waiting list, but "walk-in" to the Grand Californian every day.
    I think you've hit this nail on the head. I just trotted over to the GCH website and checked out the prices ...

    Basically you have to like DLR enough to want a 24 hour/day immersion in it, and not concern yourself with trifles like $.

    Reminds me of 1989, when I visited the Ferrari dealer in Los Gatos, admired one of the new F40s. "That will be $1.2 mil," said the manager. After he helped me up off the floor, I asked, "How do you finance a car for that?" He looked at me pityingly: "Customers who buy these cars just write checks."
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  10. #910

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I will take this a step further and say that within the next decade I can see Club 33 dining becoming a DVC, ABD, or D23 "perk".

    "We", meaning MC members, can clearly see the benefit in tapping the Adventures By Disney, DVC, D23, Disney Cruise Line and Guest Hotel "whales" list (and yes those respective entities each have one). What many don't realize is that each unit operates independently under the "Disney" umbrella. They each have their own "list" and just like major casinos they guard said list very closely. There is very little cross pollination between these entities.
    You seem to be somewhat contradicting yourself. Unless there is a change in corporate structure, Club 33 is unlikely to become a "perk" for other units (DVC, ABD, D23...).

    Club 33 is part of the DLR business, which is why it makes sense (from a business prospective) for Platinum membership to include benefits from both parks and all 3 hotels.

    ---------- Post added 05-31-2012 at 09:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post
    Reminds me of 1989, when I visited the Ferrari dealer in Los Gatos, admired one of the new F40s. "That will be $1.2 mil," said the manager. After he helped me up off the floor, I asked, "How do you finance a car for that?" He looked at me pityingly: "Customers who buy these cars just write checks."
    Sorry to go OT. I pass by that dealer several times a week. They stopped being a Ferrari dealer many years ago, but seem to be doing well selling Aston Martin, Bentley, Lamborgini and Bugatti.

  11. #911

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsuch View Post
    You seem to be somewhat contradicting yourself. Unless there is a change in corporate structure, Club 33 is unlikely to become a "perk" for other units (DVC, ABD, D23...).

    Club 33 is part of the DLR business, which is why it makes sense (from a business prospective) for Platinum membership to include benefits from both parks and all 3 hotels.
    Not exactly. What I'm "saying" is that if Parks has issues filling the Club and refuses to reassess the comp situation, other business units will likely suggest offering the Club dining to their whales as a perk. We've already seen event crossovers with DVC and D23. I can easily see Adventures and Cruise both making the same pitch to "help an elite Club struggling to fill tables". I doubt any unit will share their respective "whale list" but they would likely look to expand the perks for that list. Sadly club dining fits that bill perfectly.
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  12. #912

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsuch View Post
    The target Platinum member is not on the waiting list, but "walk-in" to the Grand Californian every day.
    I'm on the wait list and I would say I am part of their target demographic.
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
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  13. #913

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    Wink Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsuch View Post
    Sorry to go OT. I pass by that dealer several times a week. They stopped being a Ferrari dealer many years ago, but seem to be doing well selling Aston Martin, Bentley, Lamborgini and Bugatti.
    Not all that far off-topic: If Disney wants to top off the Platinums, all it has to do is get hold of their Aston One-77 and Bugatti Veyron customer lists.

    They've always got great toys there. Got a midnight blue 2001 Viper GTS from them awhile back. Absolute pig of a car, basically useful just for pushing your skeleton out the back of your body at stoplights. Pass anything on the highway but a gas station. Reminds me of how much I miss the Rocket Rods in T-land.
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  14. #914

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    This is why cards are being handed out at the mere mention of the Club.
    Forgive me if I am wrong, but (prior to the wait list closure) didn't an inquiry about the club at City Hall on Main Street result in you being handed a letter about the club with a form to sign up on the wait list?

    ---------- Post added 05-31-2012 at 10:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post
    I miss the Rocket Rods in T-land.
    You might be the only one!
    -Osky

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Before we totally disregard extremism; lets remember the lesson of the 3 little pigs.

    The moderate pig lost his house to the wolf too
    .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- -. -.-- --- -. . / -... --- - .... . .-. / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... ..--..

  15. #915

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    Re: Club 33 Membership Changes for 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Osky View Post
    I'm on the wait list and I would say I am part of their target demographic.
    I should not have over generalized, since I am also a "target" on the wait list.
    The current list needed to be sifted to find the "targets", but at the Grand "interest cards" could just be added to the concierge checkin folders.

    ---------- Post added 06-01-2012 at 05:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post

    Not all that far off-topic: If Disney wants to top off the Platinums, all it has to do is get hold of their Aston One-77 and Bugatti Veyron customer lists.
    Or just stick "interest cards" under the windshield wipers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post

    Pass anything on the highway but a gas station..
    My M6 should rent a parking space next to a pump!

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