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  1. #61

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Here are the Worldwide attendance figures for 2005 from Amusement Business/Economics Research Associates.

    1. Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World in Orlando, 16.16 million, +6.5 percent

    2. Disneyland in Anaheim, Calif. 14.55 million, +8.5 percent

    3. Tokyo Disneyland in Tokyo, Japan 13 million, -1.5 percent

    4. Tokyo Disney Sea in Tokyo, Japan 12 million, -1.7 percent

    5. Disneyland Paris in Marne-La-Vallee, France 10.2 million, flat

    6. Epcot at Walt Disney World in Orlando, 9.917 million, +5.5 percent

    7. Disney-MGM Studios at Walt Disney World in Orlando, 8.67 million, +5 percent

    8. Disney's Animal Kingdom at Walt Disney World in Orlando, 8.21 million, +5 percent

    9. Universal Studios Japan in Osaka, Japan, 8 million, -24 percent

    10. Everland in Kyonggi-Do, South Korea, 7.5 million, flat

    14. Disney's California Adventure in Anaheim, Calif., 5.83 million, +3.6 percent

    The Walt Disney Studios in Paris dropped out of the top 50 (was 48th in 2004), attendance was about 2 million.

    Hong Kong Disneyland also didn't qualify, but it has been reported they have had over a million guests since opening in September.

    Disney also had the Top 2 U.S. Waterparks

    Typhoon Lagoon had 1,914,000 guests, a 4 percent increase.

    Blizzard Beach had 1,778,000 guests, also a 4 percent increase.

    That gave Disney about 106 million guests in total for 2005.
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  2. #62

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    DarkBeer. With those numbers, the average % increase of Disney parks is about 3.3%. DCA is just above average. Again, not a failure. Its beating ALL of the local parks (But Disneyland itself) and increased more then the Disney park average.

    Why do you hate DCA so much?

  3. #63

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Amusement Business/ERA reported that DIsney worldwide had 101 million in 2004, and 106 million in 2005.

    That is just less than a 5% increase for the company.

    So DCA is below average.

    They got an extra 200,000 in 2005, out of which over 30,000 was for a new special event (Mickey's Halloween Treat), while Disneyland got almost a million new folks in 2005.

    The numbers show that people are deciding to go to Disneyland, and bypass DCA!
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  4. #64

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer
    Amusement Business/ERA reported that DIsney worldwide had 101 million in 2004, and 106 million in 2005.

    That is just less than a 5% increase for the company.

    So DCA is below average.

    They got an extra 200,000 in 2005, out of which over 30,000 was for a new special event (Mickey's Halloween Treat), while Disneyland got almost a million new folks in 2005.

    The numbers show that people are deciding to go to Disneyland, and bypass DCA!
    But the more important fact is that they are bypassing other parks and going to DCA. The purpose of building a second park was not to cannibalize DL, but to keep people at the resort longer.

  5. #65

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by DifrntDrmr
    But the more important fact is that they are bypassing other parks and going to DCA. The purpose of building a second park was not to cannibalize DL, but to keep people at the resort longer.
    Well, that was one purpose. Cannibalizing other parks required DCA to built on the same level as these other parks, though.

    It would be nice if that park actually made money while it did that. In order to pay itself back, at, say 5.3 million guests per year, in, say, 20 years, with an ROI of, say, 15%, each guest would have to create an average profit, after expenses (especially cost of goods sold, CM wages, maintenance, and creating new attractions over the older, worthless ones) of $22 per visit, assuming an initial price tag of $800 million. (If only $600 million, then it's only $16.50 per visit. I've heard various figures thrown around.) Stretch it to 40 years, and the number drops only to $20.75. Drop 15% down to 10%, and it's only $16.20.

    Regardless, the 5.8 million guests figure is only a comparison figure, and using it for important analysis -- as opposed to tongue-sticking-out's and nyeh-nyeh analysis -- is impossible. According to DB (and perhaps cedardude can back him up), these are first-in-this-park parkhoppers and AP'ers and one-park'ers. And I'm amazed that it's that high. Clearly, someone might be biased in their picture-taking trips, if he can't find some of the average 15,000 daily guests at DCA.

    [TAN] A challenge for DarkBeer: take pictures of crowds in DCA. Those guests have got to be somewhere. Check the Exit Line.[/TAN]

    And it would be nice if guests were stuck in DCA without anything else to do but eat and buy souvenirs, as other amusement parks get, but that's not what happens. Guests go in to DCA, go on a few attractrions, go to DL for the rest of the day. And many don't pay to enter. On a five-day parkhopper, I estimate 1.25 days spent at DCA. Three half-days tops.

    Question for cedardude: where does Amusement Business get their numbers from? From the companies? From some independent auditing firm? Where? Sure, it would be nice to assume that they're all being honest, but I am concerned about the parkhopper issue and whether Disney's admissions are being counted correctly.

    Lastly, if TDA wanted DCA's numbers to increase according to this industry group, then all it would have to do is open DCA earlier than DL. Open DL at, say, 10AM, while DCA opens at 8 or 9. That's how easyt it would be to distort this list. How important is this list, though? Meh, can't use the numbers for anything meaningful, so ....... nyeh!!
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  6. #66

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer
    Amusement Business/ERA reported that DIsney worldwide had 101 million in 2004, and 106 million in 2005.

    That is just less than a 5% increase for the company.

    So DCA is below average.

    They got an extra 200,000 in 2005, out of which over 30,000 was for a new special event (Mickey's Halloween Treat), while Disneyland got almost a million new folks in 2005.

    The numbers show that people are deciding to go to Disneyland, and bypass DCA!
    The increase in attendance at DCA exceeded the worldwide average attendance increase which was 2.2%.

    There was no need to put DCA in the top ten list for worldwide parks. If you're going to list it then you might as well put the #11, #12 and #13 parks as well.

    Further, are you saying that DCA doesn't deserve the attendance boost it got from the special event? If you knew the amusement industry trends then you'd know that parks all over the world are getting an attendance boost by putting on special Halloween events. Halloween is becoming one of the hottest holidays and amusement parks are taking advantage of it. There is nothing wrong with DCA increasing its attendance through special events, but yet you seem to infer that the special event attendance shouldn't count.

    This special event was a California Adventure ONLY draw. Guests attending purchased a ticket specifically good only at California Adventure. They were not park hopper tickets. Since that was the case then why would all these people purchase tickets for a park they hate? Oh, because they don't hate it. You and the handful of Disneyland fanatics are in the minority.

    Unlike the parks in Orlando, Disneyland resides in a huge day trip market. Many day trip visitors aren't willing to shell out the cash for a overpriced one-day park hopper ticket. Considering that Disneyland is the original and considering its celebrating its 50th anniversary the increase in attendance is to be expected. Also, NO ONE expected DCA to pull in numbers like Disneyland does. The park cannot handle such crowds in its current state.

  7. #67

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by DifrntDrmr
    But the more important fact is that they are bypassing other parks and going to DCA. The purpose of building a second park was not to cannibalize DL, but to keep people at the resort longer.
    DCA is not cannibalizing Disneyland's attendance. There is no logic to your statement.

  8. #68

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Knott's get's a HUGE chunk of it's yearly attendance from Haunt. They would be nowhere near where they are without it.


  9. #69

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by cfparkmanager
    The increase in attendance at DCA exceeded the worldwide average attendance increase which was 2.2%.

    There was no need to put DCA in the top ten list for worldwide parks. If you're going to list it then you might as well put the #11, #12 and #13 parks as well.

    Further, are you saying that DCA doesn't deserve the attendance boost it got from the special event? If you knew the amusement industry trends then you'd know that parks all over the world are getting an attendance boost by putting on special Halloween events. Halloween is becoming one of the hottest holidays and amusement parks are taking advantage of it. There is nothing wrong with DCA increasing its attendance through special events, but yet you seem to infer that the special event attendance shouldn't count.

    This special event was a California Adventure ONLY draw. Guests attending purchased a ticket specifically good only at California Adventure. They were not park hopper tickets. Since that was the case then why would all these people purchase tickets for a park they hate? Oh, because they don't hate it. You and the handful of Disneyland fanatics are in the minority.

    Unlike the parks in Orlando, Disneyland resides in a huge day trip market. Many day trip visitors aren't willing to shell out the cash for a overpriced one-day park hopper ticket. Considering that Disneyland is the original and considering its celebrating its 50th anniversary the increase in attendance is to be expected. Also, NO ONE expected DCA to pull in numbers like Disneyland does. The park cannot handle such crowds in its current state.
    I added DCA in the list, since I was showing the numbers for EVERY Disney park worldwide, and also, since this board is mainly Disney related, the rank it had in the worldwide numbers.

    For those who care...

    11 was Lotte World in South Korea, 6.2 million

    12 was Universal Studios Florida, 6.13 million

    13 was Blackpool Pleasure Beach in England, 6 million

    15 was Islands of Adventure in Orlando, 5.76 million

    As for Mickey's Halloween Treat at DCA, yes it should count, but it should also be noted. The 30,000+ that attended the event were not folks that went to the park during normal operating hours, but mainly AP holders that paid to attend the event and provided an additional turnstile click.

    The same way a park that used to be open on selected days went year round. All the attendance should count, but it should also be noted that the increase was at least partly due to increased operating days.

    Here is what Amusement Business said about DCA's attendance in 2005.


    Benefited from 50th anniversary celebrations and added a new parade
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  10. #70

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by cfparkmanager
    DCA is not cannibalizing Disneyland's attendance. There is no logic to your statement.
    I think that you are missing my point. DarkBeer said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer
    The numbers show that people are deciding to go to Disneyland, and bypass DCA!
    I think that Disney couldn't care less which of their parks people decide to go to. The idea behind a second gate was to get them to go to a Disney park and not to somewhere else. The fact that DCA was ranked above all its non-Disney local competitors shows that in this regard the park is a success. Therefore:

    Quote Originally Posted by DifrntDrmr
    But the more important fact is that they are bypassing other parks and going to DCA. The purpose of building a second park was not to cannibalize DL, but to keep people at the resort longer.
    I was saying that DCA isn't cannibalizing DL and that is a good thing.

  11. #71

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Darkbeer, DCA bashers, here's what we're trying to get at:

    DCA was not built with the intention of it doing better business than any other parks with "Disney" in the name. There was no attempt to outdo any of the company's prior parks in this project. This does suck for fans of DL Anaheim since it means we're stuck with what is widely considered "the worst of all the Disney parks" as our second gate, but that doesn't mean the place isn't reaching it's goal.

    DCA was not built so that people would go to DCA instead of Disneyland. DCA was built so that people would go to DCA instead of Knotts and Universal. In this respect, it appears to be succeeding.

  12. #72

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by DifrntDrmr
    I think that you are missing my point. DarkBeer said:



    I think that Disney couldn't care less which of their parks people decide to go to. The idea behind a second gate was to get them to go to a Disney park and not to somewhere else. The fact that DCA was ranked above all its non-Disney local competitors shows that in this regard the park is a success. Therefore:



    I was saying that DCA isn't cannibalizing DL and that is a good thing.
    I see your point now. Thank you for clarifying and I agree with you.

  13. #73

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    Re: Amusement park attendance rises 4.2 percent in 2005 (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Snakus
    The fact my good man, is that the magic kingdom at wdw couldn't sustain itself on its own like disney land does.
    Funny, how did that park survive during the 1970's?

    No matter how you calculate things, a fully fair comparison is not possible. There are too many factors that are different for parks - bad year weather-wise, amount of operating days etc.

    And I have often wondered how wel Disney parks would do if the Disney name was not attached to it. I am convinced it would be severely less.
    Ad luna in flamma gloria

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