Why do people think Disneyland should be a museum?

[WED]

Perhaps the saddest part is that it seems the younger generation seems to lack the ability to recognize quality. But then again, they see so little of it these days... just look at television!

Actually, many believe television is in a 2nd Golden Age right now. Sure there's the glut of reality junk, but aside from that the quality of television lately has been considered quite high (HBO, AMC, and even a lot of the network stuff).

[Wild Ol' Dan]

Howdy Pards,

Well, you younguns think all us old timers used to live in a museum? Strange...we never figured we did.



I wish we could all board the Ol' Mark Twain and head back in time to those days when Walt was still around. I'd want ya to feel the magic that was in the park back then...Walt put somethin' unexplainable into the place...call it heart, call it magic, call it dreams...it wound up in all our hearts from the very get go.

We love Disneyland...not as an Amusement park...but something much, much deeper and more meaningful. Our families visited here...had fun together here...loved it here. And, when you get up in years those times take on greater value than you youngun's will know...until you reach our stage in life.

Walt put somethin' in the place for everyone..."Here age relives fond memories of the past, and here youth may savor the challenge and promise of the future."



He created a "business plan"...an operational mode...a philosophy for this special place paying particular attention to detail...every detail.

And yes, his philosophy included adding new things, changing things, plussing things as he used to say.

Well, it's worked for a whole lotta years...and it has become a beloved American Institution. I believe a major reason for the continued success of this special place has been and continues to be a loyalty to Walt Disney's original vision. Without that...Disneyland would become much like any other amusement park in the country...like Knotts, once a famous, beloved park that lost it's vision.

Like it or not a whole lotta history has happened at Disneyland now...57 years worth. More guests have rode the ol' Mark Twain than any other steamboat in American History. And...those steam trains circlin' the park weren't built yesterday...





Disneyland is supposed to be a place where "age relives fond memories of the past" just as much as it is a place where "youth can savor the challenge and promise of the future."

Don't turn your back on the rich legacy of Walt Disney. Keep that legacy, that magic, that heart, that warmth alive for future generations to know and enjoy.

If you are one of those "live in the here and now sorts"...head on over to that "other park" to find the roller coasters and ferris wheels and tilt-a-whirls. But, understand, that they are making changes over there and will soon be puttin' in another statue of Walt Disney...trying to bring a little of that original Walt Disney magic...that history...that you youngun's would do well to try to understand.

Dumbo has been liftin' little kids in the air since the get go at Disneyland...Peter Pan has been hostin' flights to Neverland since the place first opened...horse-drawn streetcars have been runnin' up and down Main Street U.S.A. long, long before Indiana Jones showed up over there in Adventureland.



When you attack our memories...something we have had deep in our hearts for well over half a century...I reckon it's kinda natural for us to say "hold on a minute there youngun'...you need to understand some basic things about this here place." There is something special here...something far more than you think it is... It isn't just a money machine...it isn't just a place for cheap thrills...some of us have spent a lifetime wanderin' this place...we've watched it grow and change, yes, that was part of the original plan...but...we've also grown to recognize that this truly was, is, and always will be Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom...

Walt Disney's legacy doesn't belong in a museum...it is alive and well, and has been for 57 years and counting at the Happiest Place on Earth.



I reckon not everybody was born last Thursday ya know...some of us have been around for quite a spell...and we've got Disneyland way down deep in our hearts... If you learn a little about it's history and heritage...maybe one day it will be in your heart too. I sure do hope so...

Adios for now. Talk to ya on down the trail.

Wild Ol' Dan

[BC_DisneyGeek]

Everyone says that change is fine as long as it's GOOD, but who gets to determine if something is good or bad?

We may all have preferred the Swiss Family Treehouse to the Tarzan Treehouse, but if more people today are enjoying the attraction because of it's Tarzan theme, then who are we to say it was better before? What about the Submarines? What about Pirate's Lair? How many more people enjoy Big Thunder than the mine train?

Disneyland will always change to cater to the current audience. If the current audience wants more plush dolls, princess meet n greets and the avengers, then that is what Disneyland will be.

Looking at the numbers, Disneyland is more popular now than it ever was in Walt's time.

While it's true that whether or not a change is good or not is a matter of opinion, the point remains that most people are generally in favour of changes they perceive as good, not ones they dislike.

I've never heard anyone express pleasure that an attraction was replaced by one they felt was inferior.

If someone happens to think Pooh is the greatest dark ride ever built, they're in favour of positive change, even if many feel that particular change was a downgrade.

I don't like The notion of Disney "changing to cater to the current audience". The Disney empire was not built by giving people more of what they like, it was built by engaging audiences with new, unique, and high quality experiences. Nobody was begging for a full-length animated feature, but audiences embraced it.

Obviously popular opinion will have some influence, but Disney should wow us in new and unexpected ways.

[DLFreak71]

Due in large part to years of Disney's aggressive marketing of discount admissions media. Over a million Annual Passports which, if fully utilized, can give customers a day at Disneyland for less than the cost of a movie ticket. Literally, the cheapest show in town.

Yup!
Why wouldn't parents buy a A/P and allow the kids to hang out.
It's cheaper than paying for a movie/ball game etc.

When it can be used as a mall type of hang out (one time yearly fee)
of course the numbers will rise.

---------- Post added 05-10-2012 at 09:42 PM ----------

There are a lot of people out there that miss those McDonald's fries in Frontierland.

But Disneyland isn't a museum
and change is "good".

---------- Post added 05-10-2012 at 09:49 PM ----------

But then again, they see so little of it these days... just look at television!

Amen

[Bob Weaver]

That was a very nice post, Wild Ol' Dan. It's nice to read someone who really "gets" Disneyland. No, it's not a museum but it is certainly a historic site of sorts. And it is not, and should not be, a Disney shopping mall with rides. The park is an historic piece of Americana itself. Some people visit Disneyland only once in their life, in fact I took someone there once who knew it would be his one and only time there. People want to see the famous and classic things in the park. A lady on tripadvisor wrote, "I can't wait to ride the teacups, that's been a dream of mine since I was a girl." And people who went to the park as kids want to take their own kids and grandkids and let them have the same magical experience they had. But sadly, for the most part it's gone now... and what's replaced it is pretty much interchangable with other theme parks.

[DLFreak71]

That was a very nice post, Wild Ol' Dan. It's nice to read someone who really "gets" Disneyland. No, it's not a museum but it is certainly a historic site of sorts. And it is not, and should not be, a Disney shopping mall with rides. The park is an historic piece of Americana itself. Some people visit Disneyland only once in their life, in fact I took someone there once who knew it would be his one and only time there. People want to see the famous and classic things in the park. A lady on tripadvisor wrote, "I can't wait to ride the teacups, that's been a dream of mine since I was a girl." And people who went to the park as kids want to take their own kids and grandkids and let them have the same magical experience they had. But sadly, for the most part it's gone now... and what's replaced it is pretty much interchangable with other theme parks.

Great post!

[bfdf55]

A lot of people are always critical of even the slightest change made at Disneyland. People who are more defensive, or at the very least neutral, on the matter sometimes speak up to say that Disneyland is a theme park, not a museum. I for one agree with those people; Disneyland was, after all, meant to change always. But why is it that some people think that Disneyland should be treated as a museum?

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, has ever said that Disney should be treated as a museum and never change.

However, if Disneyland is going to maintain it’s integrity and identity, it MUST be maintained within the quality environment it was developed with. If not, then it may well devolve into some generic “theme” park with little to connect it to what made it the success in the first place.

Disneyland was created in an era when there were no such things as “theme parks”. It was a unique and wondrous place with no peers. Now, there are numerous competing parks, many that have challenged Disney (and BEATEN them) on the quality and uniqueness of their attractions and environment overall.

While Disneyland still retains much of that heritage, too many irrelevant (and poor quality) changes, can reduce it to the point where there is little to differentiate it from any other “theme” park.

[Bob Weaver]

Another good post. Thanks.Disneyland is sort of a living museum, but museums can change and grow. Show me a museum that never changed.It doesn't matter what the exact contents of the park are, as long as they are in keeping with Walt's vision for the park, and in my opinion that requires a high level of quality, design, beauty, craftsmanship, creativity, imagination, innovation, originality, humor and general entertainment value on multiple levels and across all age groups, everything is maintained in brand-new condition, and every single guest is treated with respect and courtesy like a VIP. It's almost an impossibly high standard to maintain but they were able to do it in the past.If "old-timers" like me are suffering from nostalgia, as we are regularly accused of, or longing for our youth or whatever, well we are. We are not suffering from nostalgia specifically for the Mine Train thru Nature's Wonderland or Adventure thru Inner Space or the Skyway or the PeopleMover. We ARE suffering from nostalgia for a high level of quality, design, beauty, craftsmanship, creativity, imagination, innovation, originality, humor and general entertainment value. We are longing for the days of meticulous maintenance and being treated like a VIP even though we aren't.It should be a museum of those qualities - those qualities should never be replaced.

[Disneylandfan85]

McDonalds serves way more patrons than Providence or Campanile. Doesn't mean the food is high-quality, though.

But hey, if you want to lobby for the McDonaldization of Disneyland, have at it.

I thought Disney and McDonald's went their separate ways.

[Mr Wiggins]

^^^ Bob Weaver, bdf55 and Wild Ol' Dan have it exactly right. The Disneyland we're talking about was a show -- all of it, all working together. The amazing rides, the incredible customer service, the novel dining experiences, the unique merchandise, the name entertainment, the impeccible maintenance... and especially the astonishing rate of change. Year after year, new things were being added, old things were being closed, torn down, rebuilt, upgraded -- the entire park kept improving. The stumbles they occasionally made were steamrolled by the incredible momentum of positive change. The idea of there not being something amazing added on a regular basis was ridiculous, the notion of going years between E-tickets was unheard of -- nobody even thought of such a thing. This was Disneyland -- a world-famous showcase of entertainment, technology, innovation, ingenuity, creativity, fantasy and Americana, all wrapped up in Disney magic.

Bob said it right. Our nostalgia is for the standards of pre-Eisner Disneyland. Standards that were maintained by a company that was in it to make money, and which made plenty of money, but which did it from the top down with a company-wide vision for an ideal that money could not quantify. The company's vision of Disneyland was on display every day: it showed in how thoroughly they trained their employees, in how well they paid their employees, in how they didn't scrimp on the number of employees needed to meet the requirements of any size crowd. It showed in the world-famous "Disneylander" employee conduct that set the gold standard for service corporations worldwide. It showed in the genuine connection between the Company and its customers, born of the showman's gut instinct for communicating with an audience of real people, not numbers, and the audience's outpouring of love and trust in return. It showed in the balance between marketing and entertainment, between brand promotion and original offerings. It showed in a business model in which every last bit of Disneyland contributed to the show, not compete with each other as individual profit streams. It showed in the ever-growing numbers of small, quiet niches and beauty spots in the park that were specifically designed to not sell anything to the customer except atmosphere and the sense of being somewhere ElseWhen. And it worked well and successfully for three decades.

Most of those standards were flushed down the corporate commode shortly after the Eisner regime took over; the deterioration of the physical plant followed, soon and inevitably. A kick in the corporate butt later ejected Eisner; by the 50th anniversary of Disneyland the physical plant had struggled back to presentable shape.

But the heart and soul of the multifaceted, interconnected, organic show that was Disneyland -- namely, the management and employees and a unifying company vision of showmanship -- is not even remotely where it was pre-1980s. This ain't rose-colored glasses, folks -- it's a fact.

[SpeedWorker]

I think because it is the oldest theme park that people enjoy very much and see it like precious things that are kept in a museum.

[Steve DeGaetano]

I thought Disney and McDonald's went their separate ways.

The point of my post is this:

Folks like Mr. Liver claim that Disneyland must still be of the highest quality and must be doing something right because millions of people still flock there.

I argue that millions of people still flock to McDonalds--but most rational people, when comparing restaurants, would generally not think of McDonalds food and atmosphere as "high quality." It's cheap food for the masses, usually aimed at the kiddie demographic.

As Disneyland evolves, what it is providing to its guests in terms of thematic experiences, shopping, dining and attractions is the equivelent of McDonalds fast food--cheap, and meant for the masses, not the discerning diner*.




*BTW, I like McDonalds just as much as the next guy--but I certainly wouldn't take a first date there, or anyone I was trying to impress.

[Disneymike]

The point of my post is this:

Folks like Mr. Liver claim that Disneyland must still be of the highest quality and must be doing something right because millions of people still flock there.

I argue that millions of people still flock to McDonalds--but most rational people, when comparing restaurants, would generally not think of McDonalds food and atmosphere as "high quality." It's cheap food for the masses, usually aimed at the kiddie demographic.

As Disneyland evolves, what it is providing to its guests in terms of thematic experiences, shopping, dining and attractions is the equivelent of McDonalds fast food--cheap, and meant for the masses, not the discerning diner*.




*BTW, I like McDonalds just as much as the next guy--but I certainly wouldn't take a first date there, or anyone I was trying to impress.

Nice comparison Steve. This is how I feel as well. Disneyland was never meant to be a museum but if you are going to market to the masses (and that's exactly what Disney is doing to Disneyland) you get what you pay for-erosion of theme, more of a mall experience, and brand, brand, brand.

[ttintagel]

Every gambler knows that the secret to survivin' is knowin' what to throw away and knowing what to keep.

[CAspace]

Bingo.

Much of the "change" Disney has made to Disneyland in the last two decades is a bad joke. Tomorrowland '67 became Tomorrowland '98. America Sings became Innoventions. Submarine Voyage thru Liquid Space became the Finding Nemo Underwater Kiddie Video. Swiss Family Treehouse became a Tarzan Disney Store display. Tahitian Terrace became Aladdin's Oasis, which became a ghost restaurant. PeopleMover became Rocket Rods, which became a ghost attraction. The Motorboat Cruise was replaced with... a smoking area. The Skyway was replaced with... nothing. Landmarks like Fort Wilderness and Cascade Peak were allowed literally to rot. Unique, land-specific merchandise was replaced by generic character crap in every store.

Year after year, until it became obvious that when Disney made a change, the result would often be worse than what it replaced. Until "upgrade" became a code word for downgrade.

That is the kind of change that dominates today's Disneyland. And that is what has affected my enjoyment of it -- not my "nostalgic childhood memories" or "wanting Disneyland to remain a museum."

This should be required reading for any supporter of Walt Disney's Disneyland!
Thank you Mr. Wiggins.

And Wild Dan, Thank you for your brilliant post as well.

Disneyland is supposed to be a place where "age relives fond memories of the past" just as much as it is a place where "youth can savor the challenge and promise of the future."

Don't turn your back on the rich legacy of Walt Disney. Keep that legacy, that magic, that heart, that warmth alive for future generations to know and enjoy.

If you are one of those "live in the here and now sorts"...head on over to that "other park" to find the roller coasters and ferris wheels and tilt-a-whirls. But, understand, that they are making changes over there and will soon be puttin' in another statue of Walt Disney...trying to bring a little of that original Walt Disney magic...that history...that you youngun's would do well to try to understand.

Dumbo has been liftin' little kids in the air since the get go at Disneyland...Peter Pan has been hostin' flights to Neverland since the place first opened...horse-drawn streetcars have been runnin' up and down Main Street U.S.A. long, long before Indiana Jones showed up over there in Adventureland.

For those just joining the thread, you really must read the whole post it is incredible.
Post #62 Why do people think Disneyland should be a museum?