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  1. #61

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Dressing trashy vs. appropriate... is an entirely different discussion from dressing in costume or dressing to match a different time period.

    Saying people should be dressing in nice slacks and shirt instead of a wife-beater and pants around your ankles... is not the same discussion as putting together a period costume to match the environment you are heading into.
    you see it as dressing in a "time period" costume. I see it as someone taking the time to dress up and enjoy the parks in a way that exemplifies what Disneyland used to be.
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  2. #62

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    Quote Originally Posted by christianAdam View Post
    you see it as dressing in a "time period" costume. I see it as someone taking the time to dress up and enjoy the parks in a way that exemplifies what Disneyland used to be.
    If they dressed the same way to goto a Christmas party, or Church, or a wedding... then I'd listen. But you ignore the difference between contemporary and another time period.

    This isn't someone stuck in the 80s... or even someone stuck in their ways... these are people dressing to a time period of which they never experienced themselves. How is that simply 'dressing up'?
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  3. #63

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    Disney does not own the 1920's... This is nothing like dressing like characters owned by disney that represent the company. Disney has no right to lay claim to an entire era's style of dress and monopolize the look. These people are harmless and are just having fun. I saw a few yesterday and it was quite clear they were NOT the citizens of BVS.

    Should disneyland ban cowboy hats in Frontier land? What about khaki shorts and hiking boots in Grizzly Peak? Shorts, tanks, glasses, and flip flops on Paradise Peir? Where is this line that this family has apparently crossed? Personally, I think it should be dealt with in a case by case basis. If they aren't dressed like a disney character and are not causing confusion and a nuisance, just let them be.
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  4. #64

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    This isn't someone stuck in the 80s... or even someone stuck in their ways... these are people dressing to a time period of which they never experienced themselves. How is that simply 'dressing up'?
    Exactly. If it's historical period costume, it's not "dressing up," it's cosplay. People can agree or disagree that it's appropriate for Disneyland or not, but there's no question what it is -- and what it isn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Should disneyland ban cowboy hats in Frontier land?
    Of course not. But they should ban Disney customers dressing up like an 1870's sheriff or a river boat captain, for the obvious reason that they will look like Disney employees.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Where is this line that this family has apparently crossed?
    Where is the post in this thread that specifically says that family crossed a line? Not "I saw a lot of cosplayers yesterday and I could do without them," not "I think cosplayers take away from the street performers," not "cosplayers shouldn't be allowed to mingle with costumed performers," but that family in those photos?

    Where, in fact, is any post in this thread that specifically criticizes the family in those photos?

    That's right, there isn't one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Personally, I think it should be dealt with in a case by case basis. If they aren't dressed like a disney character and are not causing confusion and a nuisance, just let them be.
    I agree. If guests can be mistaken for costumed performers, there is a problem. If guests can't be mistaken for costumed performers, there is no problem.
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  5. #65

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Where is the post in this thread that specifically says that family crossed a line? Not "I saw a lot of cosplayers yesterday and I could do without them," not "I think cosplayers take away from the street performers," not "cosplayers shouldn't be allowed to mingle with costumed performers," but that family in those photos?
    You're right no one has criticized the actual family directly, but the actions of people who do this sort of thing. So yes indirect criticism is being made about the family and their decision to dress like this. Cosplayers are being being criticized. The family is being called cosplayers.


    I personally don't think they are cosplaying at all. They are not dressing as a specific disney character. They are just dressing similar to people of a bygone era, which is too broad and too close to the line between appropriate and inappropriate to make a general judgement. If problems arise then actions should be taken. But as of now, no problems have occurred and the guests seem perfectly able to discern people who dress in dated atire and those who are cast members. If anything Disney should watch this sort of behavior closely for now. But I don't believe it deserves the judgement it is getting here on this thread.

    Plus people actually dress like this. Ever been on tumblr or instagram? Vintage is sort of in. I like to wear vintage styled clothes from time to time and DLR is one of the few places I feel extra comfortable doing so. The atmosphere just feels right. A bit off track I know but I thought it might provide more perspective on why people would do this sort of thing at the DLR.
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  6. #66

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    But as of now, no problems have occurred and the guests seem perfectly able to discern people who dress in dated atire and those who are cast members. If anything Disney should watch this sort of behavior closely for now. But I don't believe it deserves the judgement it is getting here on this thread.
    great post, Pinrar! :-)

    I agree fully. (and the fact that DLR has pics of these EXACT people (in vintage) on their OFFICIAL Disneyland Resort Facebook page, I'd say it's safe to assume that "no problems have occurred...". We all know that Disney watched this closely and their decision to actually embrace this is very welcoming. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    Plus people actually dress like this... Vintage is sort of in. I like to wear vintage styled clothes from time to time and DLR is one of the few places...
    Me, too! There is something you feel when you dress "up" in vintage that feels really awesome. I know what you mean. There's a time and place for everything, but DLR is definitely one of those places.
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  7. #67

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    I think we're confusing "cosplay" with dressing in period attire. Ok, this is from Wiki but its pretty accurate in this case.

    Cosplay (コスプレkosupure?), short for "costume play",[1] is a type of performance art in which participants don costumes and accessories to represent a specific character or idea. Cosplayers often interact to create a subculture centred around role play. A broader use of the term "cosplay" applies to any costumed role play in venues apart from the stage, regardless of the cultural context.Favorite sources include manga and anime, comic books, video games and films. Any entity from the real or virtual world that lends itself to dramatic interpretation may be taken up as a subject. Inanimate objects are given anthropomorphic forms and it is not unusual to see genders switched, with women playing male roles and vice versa.
    Bold mine.

    This people are doing cosplay.





    When people were going to the Carnation Gardens to dance to the big band music in attire from the 40's, they were not cosplaying, they were doing period attire specific to a time frame in history, but I don't see anyone freaking out over guests in zoot suits and fedora's dancing to the swing music.

    Same with "Dapper Day" in the park. Sometimes people dress in what for all practical purposes is period clothing from the 20's to the 50's, because they are "dressing up" to come to the park in clothes that are not only a bit more formal, but often are from a different time.

    When people do Ren Fairs, or Civil War reenactments, they are not by definition doing cosplay, they are doing a period recreation of a specific time in history, and doing it by wearing period specific clothing from that time.

    Things like Bats Day are a bit more on the fringe. They aren't exactly cosplaying, (except in the case of the Steampunk style somewhat), but are more dressing in a lifestyle preference.

    The people who went to DCA during opening were not actually, from the specific definition of what cosplay actually and really is, but were recreating a period style from a point in history. Period style/costume if you will, but not cosplay.

    I have no more issue with them being in DCA wearing 20's style clothing than I have of guests wearing 40's style clothing to dance to the swing bands. They don't have name tags on, they weren't trying to pose as CM's they were just enjoying the atmosphere by trying to blend in with the surroundings by being dressed from the time.

    Sorry... but I get anal over the actual meaning of the word "cosplay" and its use and miss use. Its does not mean anyone who wears any kind of costume. It is a specific culture of its own.
    Last edited by penguinsoda; 06-19-2012 at 09:28 PM.




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  8. #68

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    This isn't someone stuck in the 80s... or even someone stuck in their ways... these are people dressing to a time period of which they never experienced themselves. How is that simply 'dressing up'?
    Here's the problem with even saying this. What about the 16 year old girl who walks into my classroom in a couple of months who is wearing legwarmers, a sweatshirt with the neck cut out hanging off the shoulder, chunky glasses, and a headband? 'Cause they are now. This return to the 80s is big with the kids. Did they live through the 80s? No, but I did. Does that mean only I have a monopoly on wearing 80s styles? Because during the 80s when I was in high school, we walked around wearing saddle shoes, cashmere sweaters and bobby socks. Guess we missed the memo then about only dressing in the stye of periods we had experienced. (By the way, I have no desire to wear 80s fashions. Wasn't into it then, and certainly am not now.)

    The fact is many individuals choose to dress in vintage or retro styled clothes. Often vintage clothes have a style which appears by today's fashion standards to be a bit more 'dressy.' Sometimes we go all out to 'dress to the nines,' other times it may just be a few accessories, like the vintage style eyeglasses I wear everyday so I can see clearly. Every time we have come to DLR in vintage dress no one has ever asked us if we worked there, nor have we been confused for a CM any more than we might have been when wearing jeans and sweatshirts. We have never received anything but compliments from CMs. We get strange looks from other guests, but that happens when we walk into our local grocery wearing the same clothes. So, yes, we do dress this way to go to church, parties, weddings, work, etc.

    CMs wear very specific costumes/uniforms. Just as I would never wear a red t-shirt and khaki pants to Target, I would never consider dressing like a character or CM.

  9. #69

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    cosplay is just a term made up to represent a specific culture. It's definition doesn't put any separation between those who do Civil War reenactments and those that dress up like star wars people at a *con. They are at the core - the same exact thing - just different genres.

    99% of those people dressed up at ComicCon aren't dressing like that every week.. or wearing it in their daily life. It's just an event and something to get creative about, be fashionable, and get 'involved' with the scene.

    Actually, I think that last sentence perfectly describes the group that sparked this thread as well.

    The comparisons to the dancing nights really don't hold weight IMO. The dancing nights are a specific event for that culture. They are dressing to the event.

    This isn't an 'event' - this is dressing to match the park and play along with the setting. It's more akin to dressing like tinkerbell or captain jack, than it is dressing for the dancing night.

    ---------- Post added 06-20-2012 at 01:38 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by elsa View Post
    Here's the problem with even saying this. What about the 16 year old girl who walks into my classroom in a couple of months who is wearing legwarmers, a sweatshirt with the neck cut out hanging off the shoulder, chunky glasses, and a headband? 'Cause they are now. This return to the 80s is big with the kids. Did they live through the 80s? No, but I did. Does that mean only I have a monopoly on wearing 80s styles? Because during the 80s when I was in high school, we walked around wearing saddle shoes, cashmere sweaters and bobby socks. Guess we missed the memo then about only dressing in the stye of periods we had experienced. (By the way, I have no desire to wear 80s fashions. Wasn't into it then, and certainly am not now.)
    If someone showed up wearing togas.. and argued 'I'm only dressing vintage!!' would you buy it?

    Dressing in the 80s like you mentioned is a trend - not simply trying to dress nice or formal like it was suggested before.
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  10. #70

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    But there are some people who DO dress differently as a lifestyle choice everyday, and not just for an event or occasion. So maybe there aren't a lot of them, but they do exist. And I'm not just talking about the Goth subculture. Some people do dress in period clothing if not every day, then frequently.

    The "grand opening" of DCA was an event... it was just as much of an "event' as the swing dancing at the Carnation Gardens. The only difference is the opening of DCA was a one time, special event. The swing dancing happens weekly.




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  11. #71

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    If 80s gets to be a trend and not a costume then so does this. Vintage is the current trend in EVERYTHING. From cars to clothes to movie remakes. These days we love the old.


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  12. #72

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    cosplay is just a term made up to represent a specific culture. It's definition doesn't put any separation between those who do Civil War reenactments and those that dress up like star wars people at a *con. They are at the core - the same exact thing - just different genres.

    99% of those people dressed up at ComicCon aren't dressing like that every week.. or wearing it in their daily life. It's just an event and something to get creative about, be fashionable, and get 'involved' with the scene.

    Actually, I think that last sentence perfectly describes the group that sparked this thread as well.

    The comparisons to the dancing nights really don't hold weight IMO. The dancing nights are a specific event for that culture. They are dressing to the event.

    This isn't an 'event' - this is dressing to match the park and play along with the setting. It's more akin to dressing like tinkerbell or captain jack, than it is dressing for the dancing night.

    ---------- Post added 06-20-2012 at 01:38 AM ----------



    If someone showed up wearing togas.. and argued 'I'm only dressing vintage!!' would you buy it?

    Dressing in the 80s like you mentioned is a trend - not simply trying to dress nice or formal like it was suggested before.
    In general, cosplaying is used to describe a specific character or role. If you're dressing up as Mickey Mouse, that's cosplay. If you're dressing up as "someone from the 1920s," it's not really cosplay unless you specify your character's personal identity. I've never heard a Civil War reenactment referred to as cosplaying; it's referred to as reenacting. However, if there's a guy in the reenactment playing Ulysses S. Grant, that's considered cosplay.

    But definitions on cosplay aside...Disney should treat this on a case-by-case basis. When it's not a specific character that you're dressing up as, it's pretty easy for most guests to tell if you're a CM or not based on your actions. However, if a guest dressing up like a CM started to behave like one of the BVS performers (particularly if their specific outfit was very similar to that of the performer's), action would need to be taken.

  13. #73

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Actually, I think that last sentence perfectly describes the group that sparked this thread as well.
    I am gonna have to disagree with you here. Since I know the group, and I am married to one of the guys in the picture. These people do dress like this frequently.

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    This isn't an 'event' - this is dressing to match the park and play along with the setting. It's more akin to dressing like tinkerbell or captain jack, than it is dressing for the dancing night.
    The Re-opening kinda was an event, in my opinion. Apparently other people thought so too. Especially those who decided to sleep out in line the night before. That's why there were people there that morning wearing pajamas. Their event deemed wearing onesies.

    On the other hand, when I visit DL on any day it is an event. I can't go everyday. When I do go it is an event for me. It's special. It's not my everyday. Although in my everyday, I often do dress in a way which some people perceive as dressy.


    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    If someone showed up wearing togas.. and argued 'I'm only dressing vintage!!' would you buy it?
    Yes, if it was a vintage dress in the toga style, which was especially popular again in the 70s. The toga is a fashion that is constantly being re-invented. Well, not the frat-boy style of bedsheets, cause that's a costume.


    Here's me on Saturday next to the '37 Packard.
    Too dressy? Do I detract from the setting? Could I be confused for a CM? Cosplay?
    Last edited by elsa; 06-20-2012 at 06:17 PM.

  14. #74

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    Quote Originally Posted by elsa View Post
    I am gonna have to disagree with you here. Since I know the group, and I am married to one of the guys in the picture. These people do dress like this frequently.
    Quote Originally Posted by elsa View Post
    The Re-opening kinda was an event, in my opinion. Apparently other people thought so too
    This is where all the contradiction comes in.. you say 'they always dress like this! this was just dressing nice..' and then turn around and say 'they dressed for the event'.

    The first defense is 'they always dress like this'. I think what you mean is 'they dress in character like this frequently'

    ---------- Post added 06-20-2012 at 09:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mylothelostboy View Post
    In general, cosplaying is used to describe a specific character or role. If you're dressing up as Mickey Mouse, that's cosplay. If you're dressing up as "someone from the 1920s," it's not really cosplay unless you specify your character's personal identity
    Not really - when people dress up as zombies... no one calls them out and says 'no, that's not cosplay because you aren't portraying an existing, known identity'. The role itself can be made up within an existing universe.

    Same way as CW reenactors may take an identity that is ficticious.. and don't need to 1 to 1 identify with a random private. Some do, but that association doesn't redefine what they are doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by mylothelostboy View Post
    I've never heard a Civil War reenactment referred to as cosplaying; it's referred to as reenacting. However, if there's a guy in the reenactment playing Ulysses S. Grant, that's considered cosplay.
    You've never heard of it referred to that way because cosplay is a relatively new term created to describe this amine/comic/game genre and hence it's association is with that. It's a new age term for age old behavior. It's not intrinsically different - just different terminology between different groups.
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  15. #75

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    Re: BVS Guests in Period Costumes?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    This is where all the contradiction comes in.. you say 'they always dress like this! this was just dressing nice..' and then turn around and say 'they dressed for the event'.

    The first defense is 'they always dress like this'. I think what you mean is 'they dress in character like this frequently'
    I never said "always," I said frequently. I said other people perceive our dress as nice. Personally, I would be mortified to walk outside the door of my house without my stockings on, but for others this is seen as dressing up. Honestly, aside from workout clothes which I wear to the gym and not the grocery store (or DL), I own three pairs of pants. Yes, this makes me weird by today's standards. As my friend BroadSword said in his TR, 'people often look at us like we have bananas coming out of our ears.'

    Second, you said the Re-opening wasn't an event, I merely made the opposite claim it was. You said people who dress for swing dancing have a valid reasoning to dress this way because it is an event. Again, just disagreeing with you on what constitutes an 'event' which requires dressing in a manner appropriate to the day and situation.

    Finally, I would never claim to dress like a character. Although many people I know may claim I am a 'character,' it certainly is not meant to be used in the context which you are referring to here.


    I am in no way trying to antagonize you, or anyone else who disagrees with me. We'll probably go back and forth never finding common ground on this situation. I am ok with this.



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