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  1. #166

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    "Failure is the key to success; each mistake teaches us something." -Morihei Ueshiba

    RSR is a cutting edge attraction in terms of animatronics and the other things that make RSR what it is. In order to successfully execute these effects and technical aspects in future attractions, the Imagineers are going to need to know not just how to create them, but how to make them smoother and work better. RSR will teach Disney what went wrong in terms of ride efficiency, and how to fix it when working with this complex ride.
    Fear of the unknown.

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  2. #167

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    ^Good luck. Everybody else in this thread is all "NO MERCY! MAKE IT WORK NOW!"

  3. #168

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Quote Originally Posted by refurbmike View Post
    I actually don't know Test Track's history and so I don't know how much it broke down on opening. However, if I was in charge, and TT did break down all the time - then I'd be darned sure RSR was tuned perfectly before opening it, lest I repeat the same mistakes.
    You are presuming that Disney management, (not the programmers and engineers), can simply hire somebody to make sure something is working perfectly before opening. They've already got access to the best folks working on the project, i.e. those who designed the thing.

    Having designed relatively complex electrical systems, mistakes in design sometimes reveal themselves weeks, or even months after the prototype has begun operations. Just like how coders don't write a program perfectly on the first shot, (they have to debug), so to do complex engineering prototypes have "bugs" that are only apparent after weeks or months of apparently normal operations.

    Also, while many guests see that RSR has gone 101, or is "broken", the ride inherently will "break down", as this is really just the computer shutting things down for safety, a certain percentage of the time. Just like how sometimes airplanes can not be flown due to safety issues. I don't claim to know the acceptable shutdown frequency fo RSR, so you can't be sure that an auto-stop wasn't initiated by the computer for legitimate reasons.

    They could have run RSR day and night for months, with 'sandbags' for guests, and discovered an unwarranted auto-stop rate that shutdowns the ride maybe 20% of the time, but they would still have to spend months lowering this to 15%, but that would be very expensive. Why not just let guests ride the ride? I think most guests are getting on the ride without problems, and I'm sure if you complain about not getting on RSR, Disney would refund. Plus, real guests are different than "sandbags", so it would sort of be a waste of testing to do that for months.

    ---------- Post added 11-09-2012 at 01:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Spideyfreak110 View Post
    ^Good luck. Everybody else in this thread is all "NO MERCY! MAKE IT WORK NOW!"
    RSR is a great ride that guests really love, perhaps more than Indy. Of course, APers are screaming their heads off for RSR to be working perfectly so they can ride it when they want. If the tea cups in Fantasyland went 101 every other day, there wouldn't be such an outcry.

    In a way, the complaints concerning down time are a compliment. But they are also unrealistic as they assume that Disney can push a button, or hire a "specialist" and fix the problem overnight. It would be as if Air Force One had a serious problem with one of the engines and the President ordered somebody to "fix it now!". Some things just aren't realistically possible, even with the most experienced folks working on the problem.

    Disney doesn't like unhappy guests, they'd love to run RSR as much as possible, but safety and reality get in the way.

  4. #169

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Just like how coders don't write a program perfectly on the first shot, (they have to debug), so to do complex engineering prototypes have "bugs" that are only apparent after weeks or months of apparently normal operations.
    I'm still interested to see if you would treat every product in your life the same way as you dismiss the problems with RSR. Let's say Microsoft released a new Windows product. You get it months after it comes out, but find out it randomly reboots about three times a day. You look online and find that this has been a problem since its release and that Microsoft is "working" on the problem. Six months later, the problem is still happening. Would you still be so merciful with Microsoft or would you be trying to figure out how to install Windows 7/XP on your computer? Or would you be shopping for a Mac?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    RSR is a great ride that guests really love, perhaps more than Indy. Of course, APers are screaming their heads off for RSR to be working perfectly so they can ride it when they want.
    I wouldn't know how great RSR is; it's faltering record has prohibited me from riding it. I'm not an APer and only go to the parks once a year for my anniversary. Which is in October. I figured that the rides would've gotten its kinks worked out 4 months later. It was broken when we arrived to DCA, it broke down when we were on it, and it was broken every time we returned to try and go on it again. So spare me the "APers are such whiners" dribble. I don't think my experience is unreasonable or extreme at all, that I should expect the new attraction to work and not waste my day.
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  5. #170

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    You are presuming that Disney management, (not the programmers and engineers), can simply hire somebody to make sure something is working perfectly before opening. They've already got access to the best folks working on the project, i.e. those who designed the thing.
    Customers who pay through the nose for Disney's product have every right to presume that the multi-billion dollar Disney corporation isn't going to foist a beta version of RSR on them, and then do a leisurely final development cycle on the customers' time -- and the customers' dime.


    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    They've already got access to the best folks working on the project, i.e. those who designed the thing.
    The "best folks" or the best they're willing to pay for? After all these months, RSR's continued downtime speaks for itself.


    Quote Originally Posted by refurbmike View Post
    I'm still interested to see if you would treat every product in your life the same way as you dismiss the problems with RSR. Let's say Microsoft released a new Windows product. You get it months after it comes out, but find out it randomly reboots about three times a day. You look online and find that this has been a problem since its release and that Microsoft is "working" on the problem. Six months later, the problem is still happening. Would you still be so merciful with Microsoft or would you be trying to figure out how to install Windows 7/XP on your computer? Or would you be shopping for a Mac?



    I wouldn't know how great RSR is; it's faltering record has prohibited me from riding it. I'm not an APer and only go to the parks once a year for my anniversary. Which is in October. I figured that the rides would've gotten its kinks worked out 4 months later. It was broken when we arrived to DCA, it broke down when we were on it, and it was broken every time we returned to try and go on it again. So spare me the "APers are such whiners" dribble. I don't think my experience is unreasonable or extreme at all, that I should expect the new attraction to work and not waste my day.
    Bingo.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 11-19-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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  6. #171

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    RSR is a great ride that guests really love, perhaps more than Indy. Of course, APers are screaming their heads off for RSR to be working perfectly so they can ride it when they want. If the tea cups in Fantasyland went 101 every other day, there wouldn't be such an outcry.
    I'd think that APers are screaming LESS about this. As an AP, if a ride isn't working one day, I can come back on another day. If I have a one day ticket or a hopper and coming back next week or month is not an option for me, if the ride is 101 I might have just lost my only chance to experience it. That's understandably very upsetting for those folks.

  7. #172

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Quote Originally Posted by refurbmike View Post
    I'm still interested to see if you would treat every product in your life the same way as you dismiss the problems with RSR. Let's say Microsoft released a new Windows product. You get it months after it comes out, but find out it randomly reboots about three times a day. You look online and find that this has been a problem since its release and that Microsoft is "working" on the problem. Six months later, the problem is still happening. Would you still be so merciful with Microsoft or would you be trying to figure out how to install Windows 7/XP on your computer? Or would you be shopping for a Mac?
    Obviously, I'd be shopping for Mac. Is this a fair analogy? DLR has a lot of rides, though granted some folks come specifically for a special ride. If you couldn't ride RSR, you could ask for a full refund at City Hall, (and you'd get it), even though you probably would spend the rest of your day enjoying the park.

    I think a better analogy would be like trying to book a private honeymoon to the moon. Let's say this is possible via a certain company, but inevitably, rain, weather and other factors delay your flight. With RSR, it is a high-tech experience that can be shut down for a number of different factors, many beyond the control of the designers/ride operators, such as medical emergencies.

  8. #173

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Customers who pay through the nose for Disney's product have every right to presume that the multi-billion dollar Disney corporation isn't going to foist a beta version of RSR on them, and then do a leisurely final development cycle on the customers' time -- and the customers' dime.

    The "best folks" or the best they're willing to pay for? After all these months, RSR's continued downtime speaks for itself.
    You are assuming, or postulating, that Disney had cut-corners with the design and/or maintenance of RSR. And, you seem to be implying that it is possible to produce a RSR with most of the bugs worked out so that guests encounter fewer "breakdowns."

    Even stuff that should be simple to engineer can turn out to be a devastatingly complex task. Look at the electric car, car companies are still having problems with this one, mostly having to do with the battery. Even when you look at the space program, there were a lot of early failures, with Mars missions, a lot more of them fail than you'd realize, and for simple reasons, this happens to this day. Even top car brands are involved in mass recalls from time to time.

    Sure, Disney could spend 1$ billion on a new team of engineers to fix the problem, but they would still be back to square one when it comes to the design of the system. We're talking about theme park attractions, a different beast from other types of engineering problems. You want a team familiar with the attraction to do the changes, other options increase the risk of disaster.

    We all know that RSR doesn't "breakdown", a real breakdown where something actually breaks could involve a fatal accident, or the juice in the track melting something or causing a fire. It is the computer safeties shutting the ride down.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 12-03-2012 at 09:43 PM.

  9. #174

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    I'd think that APers are screaming LESS about this. As an AP, if a ride isn't working one day, I can come back on another day. If I have a one day ticket or a hopper and coming back next week or month is not an option for me, if the ride is 101 I might have just lost my only chance to experience it. That's understandably very upsetting for those folks.
    It is upsetting, but it happens with even seasoned classics like Pirates and Splash. This is one of life's small disappointments as these guests can still enjoy the rest of the park. If they are emotionally crippled, devastated even, then they can complain in person, and plan a return trip in the future.

  10. #175

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Quote Originally Posted by refurbmike View Post

    I wouldn't know how great RSR is; it's faltering record has prohibited me from riding it. I'm not an APer and only go to the parks once a year for my anniversary. Which is in October. I figured that the rides would've gotten its kinks worked out 4 months later. It was broken when we arrived to DCA, it broke down when we were on it, and it was broken every time we returned to try and go on it again. So spare me the "APers are such whiners" dribble. I don't think my experience is unreasonable or extreme at all, that I should expect the new attraction to work and not waste my day.
    I am sorry you didn't get to ride RSR. I would assume the same thing in your situation, i.e. that the ride would be working when I went.

    But, with any ride, there is the element of chance and unexpected closings. Once Pirates was closed for an afternoon, due to a fire or something, and I didn't get to ride it, and I wasn't going to be back to the park for over a year. I couldn't say that I was angry with Disney, blaming poor upkeep or something (without info), as obviously, accidents happen.

    So, given that rides can have unscheduled downtimes, it is unreasonable to expect that every attraction not scheduled for refurb be available for your enjoyment on any given day. Of course, if folks follow RSR's downtimes online, and conclude that the ride is down most of the time, or a large percentage of the time, then folks could legitimately complain (as I see it), that Disney is advertising something, RSR, which isn't ready for prime time.

    Is RSR open most of the time? 80% of the time? I don't know the answer to that, but given that a lot of new attractions have numerous unexpected closures, I would cut RSR a little bit of slack.

  11. #176

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post

    RSR is a cutting edge attraction in terms of animatronics and the other things that make RSR what it is. In order to successfully execute these effects and technical aspects in future attractions, the Imagineers are going to need to know not just how to create them, but how to make them smoother and work better. RSR will teach Disney what went wrong in terms of ride efficiency, and how to fix it when working with this complex ride.
    Not necessarily, WDI is experimenting with a ton of new ride technologies, some of which will make it into Shanghai. While experience with RSR will help in a general way, each new ride has its own learning curve. After all, RSR is based on Test Track technology, yet it is far from a perfect attraction.

  12. #177

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    It is upsetting, but it happens with even seasoned classics like Pirates and Splash. This is one of life's small disappointments as these guests can still enjoy the rest of the park. If they are emotionally crippled, devastated even, then they can complain in person, and plan a return trip in the future.
    Yes, it does happen, and I don't think the vast majority of guests are "emotionally crippled" by it. However, the point remains that it is more of an issue for visitors than for APers, since they have less of an opportunity to return on another day. Not everyone has the means to return to the park again. And missing out on a new ride, that is being hyped up, can be especially disappointing.

  13. #178

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Breakdowns like the ones in Disneyland and DCA, where multiple rides are often down the same day or even at one time, rarely happen at the Tokyo Disney Resort, which is owned and operated by the Oriental Land Company. They put in more time and money on maintenance. Every ride is closed each year for a good rehab. I've never seen Indy break down at DisneySEA. Ever. If we see Cars Land built at the Tokyo Disney Resort, I don't think we'll see Radiator Springs Racers break down much, either.

    The fact that it breaks down so much at DCA is not a necessity! We'll see how the new version of Test Track does at Epcot. The old one went down constantly. The second iteration of the ride system at DisneySEA in Japan, Journey to the Center of the Earth, rarely goes down. I've seen it happen only once or twice.
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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fukai View Post
    Breakdowns like the ones in Disneyland and DCA, where multiple rides are often down the same day or even at one time, rarely happen at the Tokyo Disney Resort, which is owned and operated by the Oriental Land Company. They put in more time and money on maintenance. Every ride is closed each year for a good rehab. I've never seen Indy break down at DisneySEA. Ever. If we see Cars Land built at the Tokyo Disney Resort, I don't think we'll see Radiator Springs Racers break down much, either.
    Well said. The Oriental Land Company's investment of time and money in TDR's high standards of operation, employee training and maintenance speaks for itself. It's sad that even with the huge profits the Disney Corporation makes from the DLR, their standards are not the same.
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  15. #180

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    Re: Radiator Springs Racers breaking down too often?

    Boy, it sure seems like i remember MANY discussions about JTTCOTE breaking down alot.

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