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  1. #181

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    ^ Doesn't fit in with Disneyland at all.

    First: I didn't read all 12 pages because I'm lazy so this may have already been said.

    A lot of you are talking about this park like it is actually happening, even though we've heard but one rumor about it.

    Also...even if this park was going to go through, how many Marvel characters can you name? And we're all nerds and probably know a lot. But how many GP are going to know more than the Avengers and the Fantastic 4?
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  2. #182

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linus View Post
    ^ Doesn't fit in with Disneyland at all.

    First: I didn't read all 12 pages because I'm lazy so this may have already been said.

    A lot of you are talking about this park like it is actually happening, even though we've heard but one rumor about it.

    Also...even if this park was going to go through, how many Marvel characters can you name? And we're all nerds and probably know a lot. But how many GP are going to know more than the Avengers and the Fantastic 4?
    Does not matter how many you can name....i want to know how a park based one...Hero's vs Villains will really be that good...

    Welcome to the Ironman Coaster....now the Hulk water ride....next the Avengers show....ohh look the black panther spinners? I'm a Marvel fan but 30 attractions based on Marvel? Half will be good guys vs bad guys rides? The other half will be carnival rides themed to some hero

    I'd love to hear even 10 really cool sounding attractions....themed to Marvel and most not just being about saving the world or something

  3. #183

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    I've said it before, but I'm believe that branding the third gate as a Marvel park would be a mistake. I actually have no doubt that you could build a really great park using just Marvel properties and it would appeal to a fairly large audience. But that's not the only thing that needs to be considered.

    A huge part of building a third gate is getting your existing audience to extend their stays. It's great to expand your audience, but if your third park doesn't appeal to your existing audience you're going to end up alienating a lot of guests. This was one of the problems with DCA and I fear a Marvel park would end up having the same problems. People with kids are going to want to go there, so the park can still only go so far in terms of sex and violence or people are going to be mad. If there's not enough for their kids to do, they're going to complain. If families don't go to the third gate at all, you lose out on a night or two of hotel stays and big money food and merch sales.

    I still think that a smarter way to expand the audience is to build a third gate with a broad set of themes where several Marvel stories can fit in with Disney and original rides as well. This would be a really appealing park to a really broad audience. It would be a more high octane version of DL, where the lands have broad themes and where many stories can blend together.

    I also think that it would be a smart move to also add some Marvel attractions to DL and DCA too. I think it's best to give the Marvel fans things to see at each park so that they have a reason to visit for two or three days and not just one. I also think this would help slowly unify the brands and in a few years people will just see Marvel as a part of the Disney universe of characters. I think it's better to bring the Marvel fans in and make them fans of DLR as a whole, rather then just draw them to one park.

    I know there are many who just don't want Marvel characters blended into the existing parks at all, which I understand but disagree. I don't think that the dark side of the characters and the sex, violence and substance abuse aspects of them are the part that makes them potentially great material for theme park attractions. While those back-stories exist, they are not going to be a part of any of the attractions that get built in any park. I have no doubt that they can build great family oriented attractions that would fit in with the existing parks fine. But I also think that there's a lot of characters from Marvel as well as Disney and Pixar that don't fit well into the existing parks. It makes more sense for the third gate to be a home for many of these other properties that don't fit in DL or DCA and for the existing parks get Marvel characters in lands where they would fit.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  4. #184

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Personally, I wouldn't want to visit the Marvel Universe. It's all US vs THEM there: someone's always trying to destroy everything good, and someone else (who is 'better' than the rest of us) always has to come along to stop them and save us all. Ugh. Yawn.

    I prefer the Disney universe, where, for the most part, we struggle against our own limitations (you know what I'm talking about, if you've ever watched a Disney film). When there is a villain to be dealt with, they are usually less grandiose; more focused on their personal conflict with our protagonist, and less so on *DESTROYING THE WORLD!!!* or *RUINING THE FUN FOR EVERYONE ELSE!!!* which is really what most superhero stories boil down to.

    All that being said, I have a lot of faith in WDI, and I know that nothing I say is likely to change anything there. I look forward to seeing how they deal with all of this! I'm sure it'll be cool.

  5. #185

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I've said it before, but I'm believe that branding the third gate as a Marvel park would be a mistake. I actually have no doubt that you could build a really great park using just Marvel properties and it would appeal to a fairly large audience. But that's not the only thing that needs to be considered.

    A huge part of building a third gate is getting your existing audience to extend their stays. It's great to expand your audience, but if your third park doesn't appeal to your existing audience you're going to end up alienating a lot of guests. This was one of the problems with DCA and I fear a Marvel park would end up having the same problems. People with kids are going to want to go there, so the park can still only go so far in terms of sex and violence or people are going to be mad. If there's not enough for their kids to do, they're going to complain. If families don't go to the third gate at all, you lose out on a night or two of hotel stays and big money food and merch sales.

    I still think that a smarter way to expand the audience is to build a third gate with a broad set of themes where several Marvel stories can fit in with Disney and original rides as well. This would be a really appealing park to a really broad audience. It would be a more high octane version of DL, where the lands have broad themes and where many stories can blend together.

    I also think that it would be a smart move to also add some Marvel attractions to DL and DCA too. I think it's best to give the Marvel fans things to see at each park so that they have a reason to visit for two or three days and not just one. I also think this would help slowly unify the brands and in a few years people will just see Marvel as a part of the Disney universe of characters. I think it's better to bring the Marvel fans in and make them fans of DLR as a whole, rather then just draw them to one park.

    I know there are many who just don't want Marvel characters blended into the existing parks at all, which I understand but disagree. I don't think that the dark side of the characters and the sex, violence and substance abuse aspects of them are the part that makes them potentially great material for theme park attractions. While those back-stories exist, they are not going to be a part of any of the attractions that get built in any park. I have no doubt that they can build great family oriented attractions that would fit in with the existing parks fine. But I also think that there's a lot of characters from Marvel as well as Disney and Pixar that don't fit well into the existing parks. It makes more sense for the third gate to be a home for many of these other properties that don't fit in DL or DCA and for the existing parks get Marvel characters in lands where they would fit.
    Yeah. This is exactly what I was going to say. Putting the brand Marvel on the park limits your audience right off the bat.


  6. #186

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrGoat View Post
    Personally, I wouldn't want to visit the Marvel Universe. It's all US vs THEM there: someone's always trying to destroy everything good, and someone else (who is 'better' than the rest of us) always has to come along to stop them and save us all. Ugh. Yawn.

    I prefer the Disney universe, where, for the most part, we struggle against our own limitations (you know what I'm talking about, if you've ever watched a Disney film). When there is a villain to be dealt with, they are usually less grandiose; more focused on their personal conflict with our protagonist, and less so on *DESTROYING THE WORLD!!!* or *RUINING THE FUN FOR EVERYONE ELSE!!!* which is really what most superhero stories boil down to.

    All that being said, I have a lot of faith in WDI, and I know that nothing I say is likely to change anything there. I look forward to seeing how they deal with all of this! I'm sure it'll be cool.
    Well.. in Spider-man.. Norman Osborn had conflicts with his career which is how Green Goblin was born.. Spidey tried to get in the way of that and Osborn discovered it was in fact Parker who was behind the mask and in turn creates conflict with Parker himself..

    Same thing goes for Mr Tony Stark AKA Iron Man and the villains he encounters such as Whiplash and Obediah..

    The Hulk is pretty much a hero/villain conflict within himself in that he has to deal with being the Hulk!

    Even Loki's beef with Thor is on a personal level, they're family.

    I know this isn't Marvel but even in other comics such as DC, one of Green Lantern's (Hal Jordan version) nemesis, Hammond has conflicts with him because they shared the same love interest.

    Seems like quite a few of these Marvel stories are just like those in the Disney Universe.. not much unlike The Queen vs Snow White.. Maleficent vs Aurora.. Peter vs Hook.. etc. etc.

    Most super hero stories run deeper than you'd think.. but alas, I realize we live in a generation where it's cool to be "anti-hero."
    I believe my future must be brighter than my past. Without that belief, I'm just waiting to die.
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  7. #187

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff Lightyear View Post
    Well.. in Spider-man.. Norman Osborn had conflicts with his career which is how Green Goblin was born.. Spidey tried to get in the way of that and Osborn discovered it was in fact Parker who was behind the mask and in turn creates conflict with Parker himself..

    Same thing goes for Mr Tony Stark AKA Iron Man and the villains he encounters such as Whiplash and Obediah..

    The Hulk is pretty much a hero/villain conflict within himself in that he has to deal with being the Hulk!

    Even Loki's beef with Thor is on a personal level, they're family.

    I know this isn't Marvel but even in other comics such as DC, one of Green Lantern's (Hal Jordan version) nemesis, Hammond has conflicts with him because they shared the same love interest.

    Seems like quite a few of these Marvel stories are just like those in the Disney Universe.. not much unlike The Queen vs Snow White.. Maleficent vs Aurora.. Peter vs Hook.. etc. etc.
    Well, thanks for setting me straight, Sheriff! You make a really good point. I've never really followed the stories in depth ...maybe I saw too many episodes of the old Batman show as a kid, and just presumed they were all the same (evil character trying to ruin everyone else's fun until superhero steps in to save us all). I will open my mind and check them out.

  8. #188

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungImagineer View Post
    Yeah. This is exactly what I was going to say. Putting the brand Marvel on the park limits your audience right off the bat.

    I disagree, the Avengers didnt make 1.4 billion dollars off it targeted demographic 14-30 year old males

    I sense a lot of this "Marvel cant be a whole park" are comming from people who dont know the Marvel Universe all that well.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  9. #189

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    is a short list of KNOWN marvel characters that have been around for decades and are massively popular right now:

    Captain America
    Spiderman
    Iron Man
    Thor
    Hulk
    Nick Fury
    Black Widow
    Hawkeye
    The Thing
    Mr Fantastic
    The Invisible Women
    The Human Torch
    Dr Doom
    Dr Octopus
    The Green Goblin
    Venom
    Silver Surfer
    Blade
    The Punisher
    Wolverine
    Cyclopes
    Storm
    Jean Grey
    Professor X
    Magneto
    Iceman
    Nightcrawler
    Rouge
    Deadpool
    Beast
    Gambit
    Ghost Rider
    Kick ***
    Men in Black

    ---------- Post added 07-02-2012 at 04:17 PM ----------

    As far as emotion storytelling I think Marvel is a front runner in entertainment for offering fully flesh out characters with weaknesses and personal problems much more than Disney, pixar or any other franchise I know. Within the Xmen alone you have issues with friendship, discrimination, coming to terms with one’s self, choosing the right path over the easy one, family, loss and acceptance. These stories are incredibly deep and versatile.

  10. #190

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrGoat View Post
    I prefer the Disney universe, where, for the most part, we struggle against our own limitations (you know what I'm talking about, if you've ever watched a Disney film). When there is a villain to be dealt with, they are usually less grandiose; more focused on their personal conflict with our protagonist, and less so on *DESTROYING THE WORLD!!!* or *RUINING THE FUN FOR EVERYONE ELSE!!!* which is really what most superhero stories boil down to.
    Most Disney stories boil down to that as well.

    Jafar wants to rule Agrabah.

    Hades wants to rule the world.

    Scar wants the Pridelands.

    The Sheriff of Nottingham wants to rule England

    These are just a few examples, but in all of these some hero has to step up and defeat the bad guy to save all the innocents. Sounds a lot like Tony Stark stepping up to stop Iron Monger.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  11. #191

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    I wouldn't mind a Marvel park that catered to it's lesser-known characters.

    I'm sure some stories by Marvel would be great to recreate into a theme park.


    Typical Spiderman, X-men, & others have already been done. I'm sure they have comics less cartoony as well. Sorry if this has been said.

  12. #192

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Characters I’d love to see come to a Marvel park and be represented:

    Namor
    Black Panthor
    Gambit
    Apocalypse
    Omega Red

  13. #193

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirton View Post
    Characters I’d love to see come to a Marvel park and be represented:

    Namor
    Black Panthor
    Gambit
    Apocalypse
    Omega Red
    Its not so much specific characters I would want to see as much as storylines.

    I've mentioned before, an epic dark ride retelling Secret Wars would be awesome. They could start with a really cool effect that transports you to the Beyonder's world. I imagine a really great animatronic/optical effect for Spider-Man in his tattered costume transforming into the Black Spider-Man when he encounters the alien symbiote. Since that storyline encompassed almost all the major characters, I could see it as being the located in the "Hub" of the new park as a transition to whatever lands they decide to put there.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  14. #194

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Yeah Civil War is by far my favorite series, but the Infinity Crisis is pretty bad-a too.

    ---------- Post added 07-02-2012 at 04:58 PM ----------

    I mentioned but didn't see anyone reply to it: I wonder if Disney would ever abandon the "Lands" concept in favor of a muti-themed park?

  15. #195

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Its not so much specific characters I would want to see as much as storylines.

    I've mentioned before, an epic dark ride retelling Secret Wars would be awesome. They could start with a really cool effect that transports you to the Beyonder's world. I imagine a really great animatronic/optical effect for Spider-Man in his tattered costume transforming into the Black Spider-Man when he encounters the alien symbiote. Since that storyline encompassed almost all the major characters, I could see it as being the located in the "Hub" of the new park as a transition to whatever lands they decide to put there.
    Giant, Animatronic, Galactus. Thats what we need
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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