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  1. #286

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    I have said this a bajillion and three times on this thread, and I am too lazy argue anymore, but for the newcomers: here's my thoughts. I would love to see Marvel INCORPORATED into a park. There are many other ideas I would like to see, some old forgotten imagineer's ideas, or some new things, like pandora or Tron. There definitely needs to be an adrenaline action packed park that has the thrill of Six Flags, the theming of Disney, some stories of Marvel, and much more. Now, would I like to see a third park Marvel themed? No. I think imagineers can come up with a much broader theme than a Brand name. Adventure World, Hero Park, Universe of Fun, those are horrible names but you get the idea. Yes there are tons and tons of things you could do with a park that is themed to Marvel, but there is also tons you can't do i.e., anything that isn't Marvel. But in the end, whatever happens happens, and I KNOW it will be great.

  2. #287

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungImagineer View Post
    I have said this a bajillion and three times on this thread, and I am too lazy argue anymore, but for the newcomers: here's my thoughts. I would love to see Marvel INCORPORATED into a park. There are many other ideas I would like to see, some old forgotten imagineer's ideas, or some new things, like pandora or Tron. There definitely needs to be an adrenaline action packed park that has the thrill of Six Flags, the theming of Disney, some stories of Marvel, and much more. Now, would I like to see a third park Marvel themed? No. I think imagineers can come up with a much broader theme than a Brand name. Adventure World, Hero Park, Universe of Fun, those are horrible names but you get the idea. Yes there are tons and tons of things you could do with a park that is themed to Marvel, but there is also tons you can't do i.e., anything that isn't Marvel. But in the end, whatever happens happens, and I KNOW it will be great.
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  3. #288

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    I'll be honest I did not read everyones positions yet, but I think Disney can create a lot more interesting rides in a brand new park, rather than focus on the Marvel franchise. I'd rather go to a WDI park where all the rides are independent of movies and books, creative/ innovative, and tells a compelling story. I know WDI can do justice for rides based on Marvel, but my personal preference is to see a new "Disneyland" if you know what I mean... more "Pirates of the Caribbean" and "Haunted Mansion."

    This is not much different than a "Pixar park" which I remember most people feared for Disney's future (specifically DCA and Tomorrowland).

  4. #289

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Some points (the first sentence is who the comment is directed towards):

    1) To those saying it's limiting in the age demographic and gender. You've got your toddler with you? Look, it's Spiderman. You've got someone only into dark things? Look, it's the Punisher and Ghost Rider. Sci Fi lover? Guardians of the Galaxy. Fantasy lover? Thor. Tech lover? Iron Man. Girl? Rogue, Storm, Pepper Potts (as Rescue), Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, Jean Grey, Black Cat, Mystique, She-Hulk, Invisible Woman. For every male hero, there is an equal female hero, same goes for villains.

    2) Those saying that there aren't enough lands. New York (just to note: you could have The Incredibles in New York too)? Asgard? SHIELD headquarters? Stark Expo? X Mansion? Wakanda? A land taking place in the 40s? The Galaxy? There are many more. Heroes don't have to have their own lands (someone said Spiderman city or something).

    3) Those saying just a land. Why? You don't have all the possibilities. It's New York? There goes a lot of properties. It's in the galaxy? There go other properties. A full park allows you to have many, many more possibilities. If you have a land, maybe you get Avengers and Spiderman but where is the Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Punisher, Guardians of the Galaxy, Black Panther, X Men, etc...? A full park allows many more possibilities, giving fans of multiple characters a ride with their favourite.

    4) Those saying the popularity of superheroes will die. Superman was made in 1932 and has his first comic in 1938. Batman was created in 1939. Spiderman was created in 1962. Iron Man was created in 1963. Captain America was created in 1941. And why are they still popular? Because they have more possibilities to explore than the westerns that people were bringing up as an argument to show they would fall in popularity. They remain in the hearts of millions, they have characters you can relate to. Everyone can relate to at least one Marvel character, whether it's Spiderman, Iron Man, Captain America or one of the hundreds of other characters they have. They have compelling stories and are characters you want to see prevail. They are modern day versions of myths. Hulk is like a modern Jekyll and Hyde, a story still remembered to this day. Spiderman is a teenager with struggles we can relate to, even if we don't have super powers like him. Iron Man is about one man's redemption, going from industrialist selling weapons to a hero.

    5) Those using Avatar and John Carter as other examples. Avatar is a SINGLE MOVIE (that will become a trilogy, most likely). It has shallow characters and a poor story. People praise the CGI for looking real but I could always tell I was looking at a computer, I was never sucked into this world. Transformers sucked me in more, and those were bad movies too. John Carter was a flop with a small fan base, it would not pull in very many people as much as Marvel would. Marvel has many franchises, much like Disney. You don't like Iron Man? Go over there, there's Hulk. Don't like Hulk either? Go see Black Panther. Not a fan of him too? Go to Guardians of the Galaxy. Still no? How about Punisher? Or Spiderman? Or Captain America? Or Thor? How about X Men? Or Daredevil? How about Ant Man? What about Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury and SHIELD? You can go see other things in this park, it won't just be one small franchise like Avatar and John Carter.

    6) Those saying there aren't enough stories. Dark Phoenix saga? Secret Invasion? Civil War? Dark Reign? Clone Saga? The Death of Captain America? Marvel Zombies? Infinity War? World War Hulk? One Nation Under Doom? Avengers vs X Men? Avengers Disassembled? The Ultimates? Ultimate Spiderman? The Death of Gwen Stacy? A Death in the Family? Age of the Apocalypse? Brand New Day? Kraven's Last Hunt? One More Day? Secret War? Secret Wars? Venomous? Ultimatum? Extremis? Have you not heard of some of these? Neither has most of the general public, and Marvel can introduce them to you in this park, like they've done with movies.

    7) Those saying it would be uninteresting. Have you heard of these heroes? Do you know some of their personalities? Their pasts? Their struggles? Their pains? Their triumphs? There's one out there for you to relate to and care about, you just have to open your eyes and look at the characters.

    There are many stories to be told with these characters, a theme park is a great way to do that. They are compelling if you look at them. If you don't just shrug them off because they're superheroes, you can find something great and experience these wonderful characters. You don't like them because they have powers? Look at Batman, Green Arrow, Black Widow, Hawkeye and Iron Man. No powers but they can keep up with their super powered teammates. Look at them for their personalities, not because they have powers. Just saying you dislike superheroes because their superheroes isn't doing the genre the justice it deserves. Do you know the story of Peter Parker? Do you know his personality? His triumphs? His fears? His past? His struggles? What he's lost? He's a compelling character because people relate to him. He's an outcast in high school, he's bullied, he was abandoned by his parents, his uncle died in his arms because of his mistakes, he accidently snapped the neck of his girlfriend while trying to save her, he's defeated his enemies, his risen above what he was told he was. He's a victim of bullying that is able to show that he is not as worthless as his tormentors say. Just because he has powers doesn't mean you should shrug off a deep character that you may grow to love and relate to if you knew him beyond his ability to climb walls, shoot webs (web shooters in the comics and recent movie but organic in the Raimi films) and superhuman physical characteristics.

    Yes, I know I brought up Spiderman a lot in this post but I believe he's one of the most likable and relatable out there.
    I believe in Sherlock Holmes, Moriarty was real.

  5. #290

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by FantasiaFan View Post
    Some points (the first sentence is who the comment is directed towards):

    1) To those saying it's limiting in the age demographic and gender. You've got your toddler with you? Look, it's Spiderman. You've got someone only into dark things? Look, it's the Punisher and Ghost Rider. Sci Fi lover? Guardians of the Galaxy. Fantasy lover? Thor. Tech lover? Iron Man. Girl? Rogue, Storm, Pepper Potts (as Rescue), Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, Jean Grey, Black Cat, Mystique, She-Hulk, Invisible Woman. For every male hero, there is an equal female hero, same goes for villains.

    2) Those saying that there aren't enough lands. New York (just to note: you could have The Incredibles in New York too)? Asgard? SHIELD headquarters? Stark Expo? X Mansion? Wakanda? A land taking place in the 40s? The Galaxy? There are many more. Heroes don't have to have their own lands (someone said Spiderman city or something).

    3) Those saying just a land. Why? You don't have all the possibilities. It's New York? There goes a lot of properties. It's in the galaxy? There go other properties. A full park allows you to have many, many more possibilities. If you have a land, maybe you get Avengers and Spiderman but where is the Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Punisher, Guardians of the Galaxy, Black Panther, X Men, etc...? A full park allows many more possibilities, giving fans of multiple characters a ride with their favourite.

    4) Those saying the popularity of superheroes will die. Superman was made in 1932 and has his first comic in 1938. Batman was created in 1939. Spiderman was created in 1962. Iron Man was created in 1963. Captain America was created in 1941. And why are they still popular? Because they have more possibilities to explore than the westerns that people were bringing up as an argument to show they would fall in popularity. They remain in the hearts of millions, they have characters you can relate to. Everyone can relate to at least one Marvel character, whether it's Spiderman, Iron Man, Captain America or one of the hundreds of other characters they have. They have compelling stories and are characters you want to see prevail. They are modern day versions of myths. Hulk is like a modern Jekyll and Hyde, a story still remembered to this day. Spiderman is a teenager with struggles we can relate to, even if we don't have super powers like him. Iron Man is about one man's redemption, going from industrialist selling weapons to a hero.

    5) Those using Avatar and John Carter as other examples. Avatar is a SINGLE MOVIE (that will become a trilogy, most likely). It has shallow characters and a poor story. People praise the CGI for looking real but I could always tell I was looking at a computer, I was never sucked into this world. Transformers sucked me in more, and those were bad movies too. John Carter was a flop with a small fan base, it would not pull in very many people as much as Marvel would. Marvel has many franchises, much like Disney. You don't like Iron Man? Go over there, there's Hulk. Don't like Hulk either? Go see Black Panther. Not a fan of him too? Go to Guardians of the Galaxy. Still no? How about Punisher? Or Spiderman? Or Captain America? Or Thor? How about X Men? Or Daredevil? How about Ant Man? What about Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury and SHIELD? You can go see other things in this park, it won't just be one small franchise like Avatar and John Carter.

    6) Those saying there aren't enough stories. Dark Phoenix saga? Secret Invasion? Civil War? Dark Reign? Clone Saga? The Death of Captain America? Marvel Zombies? Infinity War? World War Hulk? One Nation Under Doom? Avengers vs X Men? Avengers Disassembled? The Ultimates? Ultimate Spiderman? The Death of Gwen Stacy? A Death in the Family? Age of the Apocalypse? Brand New Day? Kraven's Last Hunt? One More Day? Secret War? Secret Wars? Venomous? Ultimatum? Extremis? Have you not heard of some of these? Neither has most of the general public, and Marvel can introduce them to you in this park, like they've done with movies.

    7) Those saying it would be uninteresting. Have you heard of these heroes? Do you know some of their personalities? Their pasts? Their struggles? Their pains? Their triumphs? There's one out there for you to relate to and care about, you just have to open your eyes and look at the characters.

    There are many stories to be told with these characters, a theme park is a great way to do that. They are compelling if you look at them. If you don't just shrug them off because they're superheroes, you can find something great and experience these wonderful characters. You don't like them because they have powers? Look at Batman, Green Arrow, Black Widow, Hawkeye and Iron Man. No powers but they can keep up with their super powered teammates. Look at them for their personalities, not because they have powers. Just saying you dislike superheroes because their superheroes isn't doing the genre the justice it deserves. Do you know the story of Peter Parker? Do you know his personality? His triumphs? His fears? His past? His struggles? What he's lost? He's a compelling character because people relate to him. He's an outcast in high school, he's bullied, he was abandoned by his parents, his uncle died in his arms because of his mistakes, he accidently snapped the neck of his girlfriend while trying to save her, he's defeated his enemies, his risen above what he was told he was. He's a victim of bullying that is able to show that he is not as worthless as his tormentors say. Just because he has powers doesn't mean you should shrug off a deep character that you may grow to love and relate to if you knew him beyond his ability to climb walls, shoot webs (web shooters in the comics and recent movie but organic in the Raimi films) and superhuman physical characteristics.

    Yes, I know I brought up Spiderman a lot in this post but I believe he's one of the most likable and relatable out there.


    Simply amazing (no pun intended)
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  6. #291

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by christianAdam View Post


    Simply amazing (no pun intended)
    agreed
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  7. #292

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by christianAdam View Post


    Simply amazing (no pun intended)
    I don't know of hardly ANY of these "characters/stories" except for the Big Names, like Iron Man........... They may mean something to the Comic Con crowd (and I'm not saying that's not a valuable enough demographic for Disney to try and cash in on), but they mean nothing to me and wouldn't give me a reason to visit the 3rd gate.

    I accept the fact that Marvel is coming, like it or not, but I'd prefer WDI to fold Marvel into a 3rd gate rather than making Marvel the sole theme of that park.

  8. #293

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    The thing is, it really doesn't matter how much content Marvel has, the point that a number of us are trying to make is that it's still limiting. There are a lot of people who don't know most of those characters. There's a lot of people who will just have a lot of negative preconceived notion about the idea of a comic book based theme park. You can argue all day about how their impression is wrong, but its what people are going to think and you can't easily change that. I just think it would be a huge mistake. Way too many parents with younger kids will decide, meh, we don't need to go to the Marvel park and not plan another day for their trip. It would be so much smarter to add a few Marvel attractions in each park with the largest amount in the third gate. Ironman can go in TL perhaps with an appearance of the Hulk, Cap can go in DCA in a 40's story set in Hollywood and then they could put some of the others at the third gate. That way you make the Marvel fans want to visit all the parks and you don't scare away parents from taking their little ones to the third gate.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  9. #294

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Ha. And it always come down to this: selling the brand to someone who is opposed. "But the stories, the characters, the experiences, the possibilities, blah blah blah." I understand the world of Marvel. I understand that it has great stories and great lands. I understand how big it is. The title of the forum, "Third Park to be Marvel Theme?" is talking about the general theme of the park.

    Let's have a talk about general theme. What is a general theme? It is the core and the basis of a THEME park. Universal Studios, general theme: movies. California Adventure, general theme: Adventures of California, or more specific: Disney's Adventure to California. Disneyland, hmmm toughie. I wouldn't agree that Disneylands general theme is Disney and every property under that name. I think Disneyland is more about Walt's interest's and fascinations of imagination and creativity through themes of adventure, fantasy, frontier, and tomorrow.

    Now [insert Marvel Park's name here]'s general theme is definitely Marvel. Now what this means to you, a hard core Marvel fan and supporter of this park, doesn't matter. But it matter's to some.

    I would love to see a Marvel themed park as much as I would love to see a Pixar themed park, and that isn't very much. While the theme of superhero's isn't going anywhere anytime soon, the brand of Marvel might. And a park showcasing Marvel might not (just grasp this idea in your head), appeal or draw attention to some people. And while Marvel is huge to some people, to others it is just a title they see before watching the latest Superhero movie. Yes this might appeal to you and many others (including people spending this weekend in San Diego ) it almost excludes an audience. And I know this might surprise some of you, but some people don't care for Marvel at all! And that's totally fine! There are two other parks for them!

    And then, there is me. A teenage guy who is supposedly the core target trying to be reached by Marvel, and honestly I am not really picking up what they are throwin down. I sit in the middle. And that is where I will be until a third park does or does not open, and whether I like it or not.

    If you read this, thanks, it helps to know someone is reading every side of the argument and not just agreeing and disagreeing. To fully, back something up, you have to look at both sides and see what other people have to say.

    ---------- Post added 07-13-2012 at 04:31 PM ----------

    Finally, some people agreeing with me! Haha! Where we're you about 10 pages back when I was fighting by myself?!

  10. #295

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by sdjeff4sc View Post
    I don't know of hardly ANY of these "characters/stories" except for the Big Names, like Iron Man........... They may mean something to the Comic Con crowd (and I'm not saying that's not a valuable enough demographic for Disney to try and cash in on), but they mean nothing to me and wouldn't give me a reason to visit the 3rd gate.

    I accept the fact that Marvel is coming, like it or not, but I'd prefer WDI to fold Marvel into a 3rd gate rather than making Marvel the sole theme of that park.
    (This is also a reply to Uncle Bob since it's basically the same point)

    I know you, and majority of people out there don't know the characters and that's a good point too. Hence why (I believe) I said in my post that this park can expose you to these new characters. You didn't know about Iron Man until he got his movie, did you? If you did, you didn't know very much about him beyond the premise, right? It was a risk that Marvel studios took, a risk that paid off since they have great characters. I bet you didn't have incentive to go see Iron Man at first because he was a character you didn't know, right? You know and like him now, correct? What's to say that because they will introduce you to new character, you won't like at least one of them? Iron Man was predicted to be a flop. But, because it was good, people came and saw it. If the theme park attractions are good, people will come and ride them.

    (If you did know a lot about Iron Man or something, replace you with the general public)

    Yes, as with anything, it is a risk to have a full park based on Marvel alone. Iron Man was a risk to make. Marvel's previous films (ignoring the original Raimi films) weren't huge successes. It was their first film made by their own studio.

    You know who Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury, X Men (not every individual member, but as a group), Spiderman and the Fantastic Four are? Great. You don't know who Punisher, Daredevil, Scarlet Witch, Black Cat and Guardians of the Galaxy are? Well, prepare to find out then. You come in for the ones you know but you leave with the knowledge of many more.

    Side notes: GotG has a movie coming out in 2014. Punisher, Ghost Rider and Daredevil have movies out but I recommend avoiding them at all costs.
    I believe in Sherlock Holmes, Moriarty was real.

  11. #296

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by FantasiaFan View Post
    ...You don't know who Punisher, Daredevil, Scarlet Witch, Black Cat and Guardians of the Galaxy are? Well, prepare to find out then. You come in for the ones you know but you leave with the knowledge of many more....
    Just speaking as a Disney fan who is also a Marvel fan, the folks I know who aren't already Marvel fans are very unlikely to pay Disney prices to see a Marvel-named park.

    A Disney 3rd gate themed to adventure and exploration, in the spirit of DisneySeas, yes. And once there, maybe then they'd sample Marvel-themed rides.

    But a park with the Marvel name on it, or worse, a park that is Marvel-only, no.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  12. #297

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Just speaking as a Disney fan who is also a Marvel fan, the folks I know who aren't already Marvel fans are very unlikely to pay Disney prices to see a Marvel-named park.

    A Disney 3rd gate themed to adventure and exploration, in the spirit of DisneySeas, yes. And once there, maybe then they'd sample Marvel-themed rides.

    But a park with the Marvel name on it, or worse, a park that is Marvel-only, no.
    Fair enough but that argument goes both ways. Those who are not Disney fans won't visit Disneyland. Those who are Marvel fans and don't like Disney will come just for the Marvel park. Those who don't like Universal won't go there. Those who don't like Harry Potter won't go to WWOHP. I get the argument you're trying to make but it can be applied to anything and go both ways.

    Off topic: I love your sig quotes.

    ---------- Post added 07-13-2012 at 05:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by christianAdam View Post


    Simply amazing (no pun intended)
    And thank you.
    I believe in Sherlock Holmes, Moriarty was real.

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Sure, you could use the third gate to introduce some Marvel characters. But there are so many Disney and Pixar properties that could go into a broader themed third gate. Things like The Incredibles, Ratatouille, Aladdin, Tarzan, 20,000 Leagues, Hunchback, Mulan, Robin Hood, Beauty and the Beast, John Carter and many more would all work in a park with Marvel too and many don't really fit that well in the existing parks. Plus there is all this talk of Oz and Pandora and those would fit better in the third gate as well.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  14. #299

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungImagineer View Post
    Yes there are tons and tons of things you could do with a park that is themed to Marvel, but there is also tons you can't do i.e., anything that isn't Marvel.
    If they could put things that aren't Disney in a park themed to Disney, they could put things that aren't Marvel in a park themed to Marvel.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  15. #300

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    Re: Third Park to be Marvel Theme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Just speaking as a Disney fan who is also a Marvel fan, the folks I know who aren't already Marvel fans are very unlikely to pay Disney prices to see a Marvel-named park.
    Well sorry to hear for them but the folks I know are the opposite. Now I avoided this thread for the simple reason that we've had these arguments almost monthly but the reality is now becoming more possible that what we thought would never be COULD be.
    A Marvel only park can work. Did anyone here REALLY think a California themed park would work? Incredibly vague but it can be done and has been done. Yes it needed help but it happened. Marvel is highly rich in material. could it use a sprinkle of help from other propeties? well sure but I believe it can stand on it's own.

    Business politics aside, I don't get what's not to love? (Well I do know after going though pages so no need to answer this)

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