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  1. #46

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post

    As to parenting; Disney can't control how effective parents are at watching their kids. What they were able to control is how effective Disney was at preventing child related injuries at Unload. It is a very simple solution that doesn't rely on the Guest to implement. At the end of the day it makes things safer. As a former CM, and as a parent, I say thank you for finally installing the nets. Even the best parents can't control their kids 100% of the time. A smashed hand only takes a moment... and Disney has all but eliminated the chance for that moment!
    Hey, if Disney chooses to take it upon themselves to do the parents’ job for them, that’s their business.

    What I disagreed with was the premise that was being put forth, that it’s inherently impossible for children to follow the basic safety instructions that have been given to them, and that it’s impossible for their parents to see that they do. If the parents choose not to, that’s one thing, but I don’t see the point in pretending that they’re not capable of it, since they did it just fine for decades.

  2. #47

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    What a tricky situation for the resort to be put in. They have to constantly attempt to make every experience enjoyable for all guests while at the same time maintaining safety standards.

    I don't really see a problem with the netting in place on Jungle Cruise. After looking at several pictures I don't think it is obstructing anyone's view of the attraction.

    As a parent, I can attest to the fact that no matter how "good" your child is, there are always times where they will try to get away with something. They are kids after all. I would much rather have to deal with the slight inconvenience of a net in front of them than have to deal with one of my kids getting maimed. This is what it boils down to for me.

    In situations like this you have to weigh the benefit against the cost. In this case, the benefit is a safe environment for kids. I think this is a small price to pay.

  3. #48

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Darwin.. he had good theories.. we should let them work.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


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  4. #49

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    I won't judge until I have ridden first hand, but I do agree that when I saw that picture my first thought was how can little kids see, then I read it was to protect finger and hands, ok that made sense but still the netting seemed obtrusive..however I remembered I have a screen to block out sunlight on my patio door and I can still see perfectly through that screen, so I imagine it's has to be similar. So I am thinking it just seems worse than it is. Maybe we can get someone who has ridden it recently to chime in

  5. #50

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    I reserve my insight till after I see it first hand but I really don't see it being that big of an issue.
    "If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that"





  6. #51

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Darwin.. he had good theories.. we should let them work.
    Darwin didn't know we'd be sailing around on a boat with robot animals.

    I find your arguments of idiot-proofing vs. preventing accidents a little redundant. In this case, there are apparently dangers with the boat and dock. Uncovered machines are not inherently dangerous. It is when you have an uncovered machine and someone slips up, whether by physically slipping or putting their hand where it doesn't belong, that something bad happens. Same with the Jungle Cruise boats. Maybe you have to be an "idiot" to stick your hand out or to have your kid do so, but people do mess up and this prevents that accident from happening.

  7. #52

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Also, as a single-parent I am very lucky to have a well behaved 4 year old who still likes to get into mischief but also knows the limits. She doesn't like knowing that she could do something to potentially upset me so she doesn't do it. I have also reinforced on any occasion the ultimatum came up that if she acted up one more time we went home...if she did...then she found out very quickly that dad will fulfill his promise and we would leave. AP or not, this has happened at Sea World as well (of which we don't have passes for)
    "If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that"





  8. #53

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    One question that will be answered over time is how well will the netting hold up to the Jungle itself. The weather has a way of breaking down just about anything. So here's hoping it holds.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  9. #54

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohmyjustin View Post
    I find your arguments of idiot-proofing vs. preventing accidents a little redundant. In this case, there are apparently dangers with the boat and dock. Uncovered machines are not inherently dangerous. It is when you have an uncovered machine and someone slips up, whether by physically slipping or putting their hand where it doesn't belong, that something bad happens. Same with the Jungle Cruise boats. Maybe you have to be an "idiot" to stick your hand out or to have your kid do so, but people do mess up and this prevents that accident from happening.
    You basically just circled back to my definition.. you aren't going to accidentally have you arm hanging out the side of the boat.. after the skip just told you to keep your arms and hands inside the boat.

    Idiot proofing is like when we need to put taller fences up - not because people will fall over the fence, but to keep people from climbing said fence and falling (see ToT idiot fall for recent example of idiot behavior). http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...101074559.html

    And my machinery example is used because it illustrates protecting against valid ACCIDENTAL situations. Moving machinery is dangerous most often not because Idiot goes 'hrm.. look at me!!' its because something falls into machine, gets caught by machine, or someone handles machine thinking its off and won't turn on. Those are examples of accidents, many of which can be minimized with good policies. But policies are there to prevent accidents. Policies can't stop idiots. So what we have here is an example of going beyond policy (reminding people to keep their hands and arms in) and moving into trying to physically stop people from creating situations that should never happen in the first place.

    If the only way it can happen is because of intentional stupid human tricks - you're probably idiot proofing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  10. #55

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Quote Originally Posted by christianAdam View Post
    I reserve my insight till after I see it first hand but I really don't see it being that big of an issue.
    Oh God this so much. Thank you.

  11. #56

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Are people here really saying that accidents with kids only happen because the parent is an idiot and overly permissive? Seriously???

    I'm glad that all of you have perfectly behaved stepford kids who would never in a million years ever do anything you did not specifically permit them to do. I'm going to start judging every parent I see whose kid is in a cast or a sling or sporting a bandaid because obviously they are just horrible parents.

  12. #57

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juni View Post
    Are people here really saying that accidents with kids only happen because the parent is an idiot and overly permissive? Seriously???

    I'm glad that all of you have perfectly behaved stepford kids who would never in a million years ever do anything you did not specifically permit them to do. I'm going to start judging every parent I see whose kid is in a cast or a sling or sporting a bandaid because obviously they are just horrible parents.
    I agree...

    The "bad parenting" bit gets thrown around a little too much and usually by adults without kids.

    Trust me...even the most well behaved kid will find a way to get themselves into trouble
    "If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that"





  13. #58

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Darwin.. he had good theories.. we should let them work.

    Unfortunately, Darwin never thought to consider lawyers or insurance settlements....

    This is not to say that I don't agree with you.
    Last edited by 4th Gen Disney Fan; 07-31-2012 at 03:01 PM.

  14. #59

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juni View Post
    Are people here really saying that accidents with kids only happen because the parent is an idiot and overly permissive? Seriously???
    No - children are people too - not just robots or puppets of their parents. If you never teach your children, they will never get by without you. Even a child of toddler age has to be taught and learn the idea of consequences.

    What is flawed is the idea that you should seek out a bubblewrapped world where nothing can ever possibly go wrong.

    I have three children (which people here have met as well)- so I'm not preaching from afar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  15. #60

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    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    You basically just circled back to my definition.. you aren't going to accidentally have you arm hanging out the side of the boat.. after the skip just told you to keep your arms and hands inside the boat.

    Idiot proofing is like when we need to put taller fences up - not because people will fall over the fence, but to keep people from climbing said fence and falling (see ToT idiot fall for recent example of idiot behavior). Man Falls After Climbing Over Tower of Terror Railing | NBC Southern California

    And my machinery example is used because it illustrates protecting against valid ACCIDENTAL situations. Moving machinery is dangerous most often not because Idiot goes 'hrm.. look at me!!' its because something falls into machine, gets caught by machine, or someone handles machine thinking its off and won't turn on. Those are examples of accidents, many of which can be minimized with good policies. But policies are there to prevent accidents. Policies can't stop idiots. So what we have here is an example of going beyond policy (reminding people to keep their hands and arms in) and moving into trying to physically stop people from creating situations that should never happen in the first place.

    If the only way it can happen is because of intentional stupid human tricks - you're probably idiot proofing.
    Perhaps a hat falls out and someone needs to grab it, or their bag gets caught on something, or their child is quite the rebel and doesn't believe warnings until they try them out for themselves. I remember looking at a boiling pot of water and wondering if it was really hot or not.

    In the same instances you cite for machinery, there is the same "keep hands inside the boat" warning. Don't step too close, don't wear loose clothing, don't touch the machine if it is in the on position but doesn't appear to be functioning...etc. Yeah, don't be an idiot, but heaven have mercy on the person who gets by one safety precaution. One bump in the road is really never enough to stop accidents completely.

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