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  1. #46

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    So the western part of Autopia (closest to the Matterhorn) is on firm ground? There's no sub track under it.

  2. #47

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    The People Mover was perhaps the deadliest ride Disneyland ever had as guests were lulled into safety believing it was a slow-moving very safe ride, would get drunk or loopy, get out on the track and be crushed to death. They did weld in some wire cages, as I remember, but OSHA has legitimate concerns, IMHO, as Disney concerning long stretches of People Mover track and teenagers predilection for doing stupid things.
    This happened twice (which ties it for deaths with Matterhorn) All deaths at Disneyland with the exception of the Columbia and BTM incidents were due to the fact that stupid guests ignored safety regs on rides. Since when has OSHA been in the business of saving people from their own stupidity? I say put up some ride on the track (with some tasteful safety warnings) and let people take responsibility for their own lives.

  3. #48

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    "Tear it out!"

    That's what people here keep posting. But look at Pooh, BLAB, and Captain EO.
    That's what we got when they replaced better attractions! You think that they're going to spend the money in DL that they spent for Carsland? Or can we expect more Pooh rides and big disappointments?


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  4. #49

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    It's a shame that it can't come back, but it's not the end of the world.

    As much as I love the WDW People Mover, DL's did have that extra something in that it could change elevations.

  5. #50

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Just curious. Has anyone ever emailed Cal OSHA? Do they have a specific reason for all the new requirements they put in place. Is it because of complaints or because they just want to make sure they dont get complaints? I understand that they are here to help keep people safe, but really if people follow the rules.....they can be safe. Just wondering if Cal OSHA has ever responded to anyone. The name comes up often when talking about theme park rides.

  6. #51

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I still haven't given up on Country Bear Jamboree, my heart tells me that they're going to put CBJ in DCA, or maybe relocate Pooh!

    Then the reality sinks in.
    Tony was asked about CBJ on Saturday. He said that it wasn't easy to get rid of them but the option for DL and where to put Pooh was similar to that of WDW. He opted to push for keeping Toad Hall. He said he would love to bring the CBJ back and thinks they would look great in DCA around Grizzly.
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  7. #52

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    I was at the MouseMeet this year. Tony Baxter gave a great presentation, including some awesome film and photos from the early days of Disneyland and the rehearsals of the opening day.

    He did want people to get the word out that the People Mover was not going to come back. The problem is what has been stated in other posting, that it would require too much ADD and OSHA updates and basicly put people in a bubble to travel.

    He also noted that there would most likely not much new happening in the area of Nemo's Subs, Autotopia and the Monorail as that area as so much infastruction going on. One level is the subs, which go all the way to Small World, then the Autotopia track and above is the Monorail. While it looks like lots of wasted space, it really isn't.

    Tony also told everyone that those turnstiles you go through on each attraction actually do something. They do count on how popular an attraction is by each turn and how the numbers add up. So if you really like the attraction, spin it a few extra times

    There was also a talk on how Tarzan saved the Swiss Robinson Tree at Disneyland. A prior head of Disneyland wanted to convert it a retail space. Everyone laughed because we all knew who that was!

    Marty Sklar also spoke at MouseMeet and that was great to experience also. He was paired with Jeff Kurti and the provide a wonderful history of Marty's years at Disney.

    We also heard from Paige O'Hara and even got a brief performance of the opening number from Beauty & the Beast.

    We are lucky to get some Disney history and fun up here in the Pacific Northwest. I guess we all don't have to live in Anahiem!
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  8. #53

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Hmmm, well that certainly sucks big time about the Peoplemover not returning to Disneyland, but at least it wasn't vague on why they aren't bringing them back. Mr. Baxter gave simple reasons.


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  9. #54

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    I find Mr. Baxter's statement disappointing... I mean this is Disney, a company that is known for brilliant and discreet solutions to problems in their parks and he is saying that they can't figure out something like an enclosed futuristic vehicle for the peoplemover and putting that on a reinforced track and perhaps even using the required emergency escapes to expand the overhead area the track covers to offer more shade. I am not impressed with his reasoning.
    The fountain of youth really is in Florida... thats why they built Walt Disney World where they did.

  10. #55

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Poor People Mover track, it's so old and deteriorating. I loathe seeing the concrete falling away from the rebar and the leaves and gunk along the track. It would be great to see something take it's place even if it's only for atmosphere.
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  11. #56

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by seafaring_ghost View Post
    I find Mr. Baxter's statement disappointing... I mean this is Disney, a company that is known for brilliant and discreet solutions to problems in their parks and he is saying that they can't figure out something like an enclosed futuristic vehicle for the peoplemover and putting that on a reinforced track and perhaps even using the required emergency escapes to expand the overhead area the track covers to offer more shade. I am not impressed with his reasoning.
    I think it has to do with....they could but the amount of money (millions) to bring back a ride that would not draw people to the parks..or get lines

    Is pointless for the Disney Company....I'm sure that if the rules were the same now as when they built the ride back then...we would see it come back..heck it would be back now

    But costs are up...and safety raising the prices on Disney rides by millions with permits and other things of that nature

  12. #57

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyVee View Post
    Just for reference, here is the area that the submarine track covers...the yellow circle is where the maintenance bay is:
    This was helpful. Thank you.

  13. #58

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonballer View Post
    The Peoplemover.
    He said that it will not be back in ANY form and asked us to get this information out there. There are a couple reasons why.
    1. The track has badly deteriorated in several spots.
    2. OSHA regulations would require a TON of changes. First they would have to add railings to the entire track. Second they would have to add stairways and other means to get down all along the track in case of evacuation. Third they would need to enclose the track so that people could not reach out to touch the side of the buildings as you travel along the track.

    Tony said that they have tired many different ideas to try to get a ride that worked there, but nothing really worked. He really wants it there. Unfortunately, no one thought to ask when is the track was going to come down.
    I'm 60/40 on believing that this is simply the 2012 Disneyland version of "Shhh ... don't tell anyone ... but the reason we had to close Horizons is because there's a massive sinkhole that could cave in the building at anytime. Spread the word, but don't tell anyone." Five years later, they built another attraction right on top of it and all of a sudden it was "Oh, that's just an old wive's tale. The sinkhole is actually on the other side of the road nowhere near Horizons."

    Tony's become too much of a company man; I simply don't trust him anymore to be honest. This whole mess (Tomorrowland) is primarily his fault as it is.

    This is a multi-billion dollar company, that used to be one of the most innovative - they could retrofit the Peoplemover easily if they cared to spend the money. The problem is they can't figure out how to market it, so they won't spend the money.
    Last edited by Krack; 08-06-2012 at 10:20 PM.

  14. #59

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by lnsemsf View Post
    Lets demolish Sleeping Beauty castle. It's so small compared to the Florida, Tokyo, Paris, and Shanghai castles. Time to finally make Disneyland impressive to visitors who have seen the other parks! Thats the least modern and impressive thing in the park and it should be leveled and a new much more impressive one in it's place! Heck it's not even unique anymore because Hong Kong has it. If the subs have to go because they're a bygone era, the castle should too!
    Nice. I think my gf's first impression of seeing the castle was comparing it to a mini-golf castle. Yeah, let's get a bigger castle

  15. #60

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonballer View Post

    The Peoplemover.
    He said that it will not be back in ANY form and asked us to get this information out there. There are a couple reasons why.
    1. The track has badly deteriorated in several spots.
    2. OSHA regulations would require a TON of changes. First they would have to add railings to the entire track. Second they would have to add stairways and other means to get down all along the track in case of evacuation. Third they would need to enclose the track so that people could not reach out to touch the side of the buildings as you travel along the track.

    Tony said that they have tired many different ideas to try to get a ride that worked there, but nothing really worked. He really wants it there. Unfortunately, no one thought to ask when is the track was going to come down.
    Well, as Walt said, if you can dream it, you can build it. My rebuttal to these points raised by Tony Baxter would be:

    1. Obviously the track would need to be repaired. I would assume that Disney would have paid for upkeep, which would involve painting the track, and putting a covering over the old Rocket Rods track, just to prevent water from corroding it. If they really wanted to bring back the People Mover or a similar ride, they would replace the damaged parts.

    What Tony is really saying is that it would be too expensive to repair, replace large sections of the outdoor track.

    2. OSHA regulations make sense, from an emergency point of view. What if there was an earthquake and guests couldn't get down? But the critical issue is how many "stairways". If they rebuilt the track going down Tomorrowland, behind the pylons they could add a spiral staircase type thing, make it looks futuristic, or even hide it inside a new type of pylon for the track. It is a BS excuse to say that the stairways need to be every 25 feet, probably more like ever hundred feet, easily done as most of the People mover track is inside of buildings, simply put the stairways where the track enters the building, much less noticeable.

    Tony is really saying: We're too cheap to do this.

    3. They tried "many different ideas". Yeah, we all know that they want the ride to tie in with a franchise or Disney/Pixar film. If a generic ride was OK, then this part would be solved.

    What Tony is really saying: "WDI hasn't figure out yet how to market a new People Mover ride to the higher ups."

    People Mover has about a 1.5 mile track I would guess. Monorail track can cost $10 million per mile on up. I would guesstimate that a whole new track would be about $50 million considering development costs, plus maybe $20 million to fix the opening to the building so that guests couldn't possibly "touch" the walls or whatever. The real issue is that they might have to shutdown StarTours or Buzz to work on the People Mover track, and they wouldn't like to do that.

    Really, it comes down to money and plugging a new film/franchise. Costs:

    1. New Track cost: $50 million
    2. Work on buildings: $20 million
    3. New ride vehicles: $10 million
    4. New ride elements/dark scenes if needed: $20 million

    About $100 million I would guess, the same cost that Mermaid supposedly was before they decided not to finish the final scenes. This would be more than fixing the subs. But hey, the People Mover load station is already built, and Tomorrowland wouldn't be Tomorrowland without the People Mover track (even though it is not used).

    There really isn't a good excuse for why the People Mover hasn't be re-themed other than money. I know construction, you can move walls/reconfigure buildings with the help of a structural engineer. Its not that hard.

    If they worked on it for years, they could get it done without closing down Star Tours and Buzz that is the real issue, that and money.

    ---------- Post added 08-07-2012 at 06:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Krack View Post
    Tony's become too much of a company man; I simply don't trust him anymore to be honest. This whole mess (Tomorrowland) is primarily his fault as it is.

    This is a multi-billion dollar company, that used to be one of the most innovative - they could retrofit the Peoplemover easily if they cared to spend the money.
    Tony isn't lying, he looked at a way to do a $50 million or so People Mover replacement, but the money guys told him that it would be $100 million or more, and the suits didn't buy it. After all, they would just be re-opening a newer version of the People Mover and the press would have a field day with bringing up the failure of the Rocket Rods. They just don't get that adding a similar ride back would make a lot of guests happy, and in the long term it makes sense as People Mover was a People Eater of a ride. People Mover ran for over 30 years, I don't remember much about the Mine Train through nature's wonderland, but I sure remember the People Mover.

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