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  1. #91

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    with everything going to a Pixar theme, I can see the old People Mover being themed to The Incredibles... remember the "bubble tram" on the island; a perfect modern version of the People Mover!

  2. #92

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by cableman24 View Post
    with everything going to a Pixar theme, I can see the old People Mover being themed to The Incredibles... remember the "bubble tram" on the island; a perfect modern version of the People Mover!
    Your first post! Congratz!!!!!


    This has been a Filmways presentation dahling.

  3. #93

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    The People Mover was perhaps the deadliest ride Disneyland ever had as guests were lulled into safety believing it was a slow-moving very safe ride, would get drunk or loopy, get out on the track and be crushed to death. They did weld in some wire cages, as I remember, but OSHA has legitimate concerns, IMHO, as Disney concerning long stretches of People Mover track and teenagers predilection for doing stupid things.

    But that's the fault of individual idiocy, not the ride itself. I get the feeling that CalOSHA goes overboard sometimes.

    At WDW it is FAR easier to jump out of your TTA PeopleMover vehicle as you aren't being locked in a "caged" vehicle, but when was the last time you heard of any issues with that?

    That said, would anyone seriously suggest sticking mechanical motors and rubber tires in the track again? There's hardly anything "tomorrow" about it. Future of mass-transit will be more reliant on forms of transportation that don't require as much mechanical operation and minimize friction.

  4. #94

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    If today's Disney and Bob Iger wanted to leave a real, lasting legacy, they'd seriously consider investing the $1 billion or whatnot that the PeopleMover would cost to reinvent. From the ground up. Tear down the leaf-strewn, ugly, abandoned tracks and start all over again. Why?

    Because the future is here and it's not what we thought it would be. THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT: The future of our cities depends on mass transportation, and no one has figured out a system that meets with widespread acceptance. The PeopleMover could, as it was in the 1960s, be a visible demonstration of how creativity, imagination and ingenuity can solve the problems we face.

    Disney has become an entertainment company without peer, but it is ONLY an entertainment company. It no longer innovates or stretches itself. A completely re-thought PeopleMover could be a showcase for a world of tomorrow, a system like the first one that exists in "miniature" to show what could work in a real-world setting for the future.

    They could extend it so that you have an option to ride a "fun" PeopleMover INSIDE the park and a "real" PeopleMover between the Esplanade and the parking garage.

    It would cost a fortune. No company could build it ... except Disney.

    No, I know it's not to be ... but imagining a world where the impossible is possible, where Disney creates entertainment AND revolutionizes the world, that's sort of fun.

  5. #95

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    I think ripping out the PeopleMover isn't a bad idea. The neat thing about that particular ride is that it was above everything else! Made great use of 3D space as opposed to most theme parks. Along those same lines, if I was anyone with power at Disney *and* had an unlimited budget I would make the following changes:

    - Rip out the PeopleMover and replace it with a new ride that goes above Tomorrowland. Something easy and transportation related. Possibly a zero friction transport tube (cool) or some very next gen thinking kind of item that would bring you around the park / Tomorrowland in interesting ways, but above everyone else.

    - Rip out the current monorail and replace it with a PRT system (or similar) for actually transporting guests not just acting as a ride. The PRT would have stations at the parking structure, Toy Story lot, Pumbaa lot, Cast Member Lot, Anaheim Train Station (next to the Anaheim Angles stadium) and possibly even at Garden Walk (although that one is very questionable). A future expansion would have the line go all the way to LAX and/or the Orange Airport so you could fly in and be right on your way to Disney. The PRT would swing through each of the parks depending on where you're coming from, but stop outside at the Esplanade somewhere. There should also be a stop at each side of Downtown Disney. More info on PRT here: Personal rapid transit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    - Get rid of Autpoia (not really a 'tomorrow' kind of ride, and really anyone can drive a car now) and replace it with something like Mission: Space. This will likely be an unpopular decision, but I think having some really awesome space based stuff in tomorrowland would be fun.

    - Get rid of Innoventions completely. I believe Disney owns the rights to Marvel, so I would suggest instead turning that area in to Stark Expo 2012 (and increment the number each year). This is the ginormous forward looking fair that they had in the Iron Man movies. This probably goes against the Disney grain, but give companies free access to display uber modern technology in here for 3 to 12 months at a time. That keeps the technology new and fresh and gives companies a great way to advertise within Disney. Yeah, I know dreaming. Anyhow, if you have forgotten about Stark Expo, check this out: Stark Expo 2010 : Better Living Through Technology

    - Get rid of Astro Blasters. We already have Toy Story in the other park, don't need two of these rides. Instead make this a ride about particle physics or similar. Do something fun here!

    I have a few more ideas, but figured I would post these and let the community either love it or hate it. Would love to hear what I can tweak in my personal Tomorrowland master plan to make it even better, or what I got wrong and should be reconsidered.

    Thanks,

    Benjamin

  6. #96

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    The People Mover was perhaps the deadliest ride Disneyland ever had as guests were lulled into safety believing it was a slow-moving very safe ride, would get drunk or loopy, get out on the track and be crushed to death. They did weld in some wire cages, as I remember, but OSHA has legitimate concerns, IMHO, as Disney concerning long stretches of People Mover track and teenagers predilection for doing stupid things.
    There were only TWO deaths ever from the People Movers, in 1967 and then 13 years later in 1980. It was not a common occurrence.
    snopes.com: Disneyland Deaths

    Not only that, but this could EASILY be remedied by changing the car design to have bars or cages, much like open air gondolas on ferris wheels or sky trams. Death by crushing is NOT why they are closed or not coming back, so let's not get that rumor running rampant.

    As for the subs, where in the heck did that rumor even come from? They just refurbished them to great fanfare a few years ago. Why would anyone think they would get rid of them now?

  7. #97

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTwain View Post
    I've heard similar things from an insider on a different forum. He said that he didn't know where Al got his information on the subs, but none of the plans he's heard involve them going anywhere. He also said there are a variety of plans being considered as replacement for the PeopleMover.
    Sometimes throwing out a rumor that's rediculous, but framed as plausible will get actual info revealed.

  8. #98

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    So what are they going to do with the track and that stupid antenna thing?

  9. #99

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by mkemows View Post
    There is one power that Disney can't over come, that is the government. In our society that likes to sue for the littlest thing it means that this baby boomers enjoyed are disappearing. Heck, who rode bikes with helmets when we were kids! As long as the powers that be feel to that that have to make the world perfectly, absolutely safe then all the money in the world may not be enough to do some things.
    But that's just my point - where is the Disney ingenuity? Granted safety and building standards are more stringent, but if Imagineering was worth it's salt it would find ways to accomodate those standards and still deliver the magic. OSHA's guidelines are good for Disney in that they help the company keep out of costly lawsuits, but to use those guidelines as a reason why things can't be done is plain lazy.

    Remember that Tony was talking to 400 Disney fans. What a better audience to explain why things are and why some things just can't come back.
    Sure I get that but I'm not getting why the fans are being asked to do Disney PR work.

    When people want something that is gone to return I think they forget what Walt wanted with his little park. It was to constantly evolve. I have a feeling he would be surprised that some things have been around for 30, 40 and 50 years!
    Walt may be surprised that some of his attractions are still around after 50 years, but I think he would totally understand why. He used to say that "quality will win out." I don't know that Walt would want evolution at the expense of quality. But that's not the point - the point is that if Walt were still around, you can bet that Imagineering would have had a replacement for Peoplemover long ago - and they certainly wouldn't have left empty, deteriorating tracks for everyone to see.

    Who know what might be done with Tomorrowland...I for one can't wait and see what they might come up with. (As long as it isn't blue people :P)
    We can only hope for the best - but since we're talking of Walt, I don't think his idea of Tomorrowland being "a living blueprint of the future" will be part of the plans.

  10. #100

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Tear down the castle???? Don't forget, Disneyland is the original! All other parks are the, "also ran" entries! Please, as someone said, the size is in perfect perspective with everything else, like the Matterhorn! Tear down the castle, I can't believe that would even be considered in someone's mind! As for the People Mover, I would love to see it back! I realize the safety issues and other limitations, etc. but as Walt said, as long as there is imagination in the world, Disneyland will never be finished! It CAN be done, get 'er done Tony!!! You charge us $650 a year for a Deluxe pass, most people want it!!!! Do something the people want for a change instead of your "suits" vision of the park. DANG, YOU HAVE THE FREAKING TRACK THERE!!!! Criminy sakes, put the P.M. back or freaking tear down the track/supports! Why have you left it there all these years!!!!!! By the way, I was at Knott's Halloween Haunt a couple years a go and saw Tony and another guy in line for the Mine Train ride and rode in train with him! I said, you look an aweful lot like a Disney imagineer I know of! He said, that is because that's me! I wish I'd run into him now! I'd love to give him my thoughts! : >

    ---------- Post added 08-08-2012 at 12:56 PM ----------

    Amen to all you said! They can do anything, just about but do they want to! Disneyland, it seems has turned into what the powers at be want, is the most financially rewarding and less about Walt's vision and what the public wants! So, all we can do is speak up, make calls, send letters and say how we feel and back it up with spending or not spending money there and let that talk for us also!!!

  11. #101

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnispace View Post
    So please don't think that the People Mover was just another "boring" ride. It was something new and real and it is those qualities that made the 1967 Tomorrowland so amazing when it opened. Disney made a huge mistake closing the PeopleMover because it sounds like it will never return in it's original form. My hope it that they can come up with a reasonable solution to restore part of the original experience and come up with a unique concept for it. Disney is limiting itself too much with the movie tie-ins. There are so many more ideas that can be explored. Being experimental is what made Disneyland so incredible in the first place.

  12. #102

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Circa1966 View Post
    But that's just my point - where is the Disney ingenuity? Granted safety and building standards are more stringent, but if Imagineering was worth it's salt it would find ways to accomodate those standards and still deliver the magic. OSHA's guidelines are good for Disney in that they help the company keep out of costly lawsuits, but to use those guidelines as a reason why things can't be done is plain lazy.
    Of COURSE Disney can overcome government objections; it does so every day. The Cal-OSHA argument is one given by lazy, unmotivated (except by money) theme park management who wants to point a finger and say, "We can't do it because the government says so." Disney has the influence, the clout, the money and the ability to push back, it just won't.

    The Alice in Wonderland ride operated uneventfully for 50 years, then suddenly laws change? The Matterhorn operated safely for 50 years, then suddenly laws change?

    Disneyland and The Walt Disney Company need only make an appeal and fight the fight, but its ultra-conservative legal team chooses not to. Disney literally spends millions of dollars a year on lobbying. Lobbying Spending Database - Walt Disney Co , 2012 | OpenSecrets

    But when Disney doesn't WANT to do something, it doesn't. No matter what its consumers say or want.

  13. #103

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnispace View Post
    I think that many are forgetting the important role that "excursion" rides play in a theme park. They provide a respite to walking and a balance to the thrill rides. They don't offer blazing thrills but can have their own memorable experiences.

    I keep hearing that the PeopleMover was too slow but in all honesty it was the perfect pace to take around Tomorrowland. It slowed down going through the buildings so one could see the "enticements" for the different attractions and it went at a much more breezy pace when it circled around over the Autopia. It added a visual kinetic energy to the Tomorrowland scene without being distracting. It ate up a lot of people, was family-friendly, and it gave an incredible viewpoint from which to view the park.

    No, it did not have a movie tie-in, it wasn't a creative property that Disney purchased to stay ahead of it's competitors, and it didn't have a line of consumer marketing products being pushed at your local Target or Wal Mart. It was a REAL prototype system that Walt Disney himself felt could transform our cities by providing clean and reliable transportation. The intent was that the technology could be sold to various city centers, airports, or universities -- any place that a mid-range automated system would benefit. At the time it was opened it was unique and an incredible feat of engineering.

    So please don't think that the People Mover was just another "boring" ride. It was something new and real and it is those qualities that made the 1967 Tomorrowland so amazing when it opened. Disney made a huge mistake closing the PeopleMover because it sounds like it will never return in it's original form. My hope it that they can come up with a reasonable solution to restore part of the original experience and come up with a unique concept for it. Disney is limiting itself too much with the movie tie-ins. There are so many more ideas that can be explored. Being experimental is what made Disneyland so incredible in the first place.
    Actually it did have a movie tie in TRON

    ---------- Post added 08-08-2012 at 01:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by grrandram View Post
    So what are they going to do with the track and that stupid antenna thing?
    the antenna thing I have an idae. Anyone have any dynamite lying around
    Dave

  14. #104

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Quote Originally Posted by NineteenTwenty8 View Post
    Yea I can do without the Nemo Subs too, they just threw in that theme with little thought. Nemo and Submarines have nothing to do with the future. I wish they'd take the ride out and put something in there more in line with the future and sci-fi.
    Nemo may not have anything to do with the future, but until the day comes when affordable mass transit and casual tourism are common place on a nuclear powered submarine, the submarine voyage is most definitely futuristic.

    Quote Originally Posted by WDW1971 View Post
    Plus the one installed at WDW was way superior to the original at Disneyland.
    The one in Florida may have had an updated drive system, but that was the only way it could hold superiority. Even that is questionable as it does not allow for the elevation changes that Disneyland’s has. Florida’s may be superior to what is there now, but in my opinion does not even come close to what once was.

    Quote Originally Posted by drjeep View Post
    Since when has OSHA been in the business of saving people from their own stupidity?
    Since it was founded.

    Quote Originally Posted by EC82 View Post
    The Matterhorn operated safely for 50 years, then suddenly laws change?
    Actually, there were deaths on the Matterhorn, so it hasn’t operated safely for 50 years. Even so, just because something hasn’t happened yet does not mean it couldn’t happen. Look how long Thunder Mountain was around without incident before the train did a barrel roll.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  15. #105

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    Re: People mover not coming back, Subs staying?

    Although I'm willing to accept the Finding Nemo Submarines are here to stay (with a possible update, for NEMO 2 - because that sells a film like a happy meal @ McDonalds); I think Team Disney Anaheim should redraw the border to Tomorrowland & move that Ride to Fantasyland (its just not a Tomorrowland ride, in my opinion). A better themed Alice In Wonderland railing would be nice (the current CAL-OSHA approved guard rail is fugly, in my opinion!) ...

    I want New (& Better) Rides - or Attractions - bringing life back to Tomorrowland (that whole area needs tlc & lots of it before Disneyland's 60th Anniversary in 2015); however it makes me sad that Team Disney Anaheim is letting the idea of a PeopleMover become an "eisner" (a great ride, or attraction that will no longer function due to lack of quality care and / or maintenance). Putting in Rocket Rods may have sounded like a great idea on paper; however that doesn't translate into a real situation without the necessary budget for making sure the ride can operate without causing damage to the existing elevated track ....

    What to bring as a new PeopleMover / Tomorrowland Transit Authority for Disneyland? Something that predicts improved Hybrid Technology (ie Electric Vehicles)? Something which hints at a Mass Transit High Speed Bullet Train (mimics the idea without creating a CAL-OSHA headache)? Whatever comes to Tomorrowland, I hope it is with the same thought that an actual ride which takes you through all of Tomorrowland offers a quality experience (& a moment to sit down to enjoy your theme park moment for a good 10 minutes) ....


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