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  1. #76

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Davelandweb View Post
    I can see merits to both sides; personally, Walt's Apartment and the Matterhorn Basketball Court are the last two areas of the park I haven't been to that I still would love to see, but that's just me. Some people don't like behind-the-scenes/spoilers, and some do. What I DO find funny is that many seem to forget that Disneyland has always (from day one) had large corporations serving food and selling merchandise within the park. Here's a quick list of shops/restaurants sponsored by corporations from the early years: Gibson Greeting Cards, INA, Coca Cola, Hollywood Maxwell Intimate Apparel, Bank of America, Sunkist, Kodak, Blue Bird Shoes, Carnation, Swift Premium Meats, Upjohn, Maxwell House, Hills Brothers, Aunt Jemima, and Wurlitzer. Walt himself knew how to use the money of other corporations to get what he wanted done. The difference from "back then" and "today" is that the stores from 50-60 years ago have a veil of nostalgia and warmth wrapped around them. Although I'm not a fan of the food of McDonald's, I find them no more evil or revolting than Coca Cola, which has had a spot on Main Street from the start.

    I also see merit in comparing tours of Walt's Apartment to tours of homes of other historically significant figures. Most of the important family heirlooms were removed years ago; what remains is either a replica or replacement. I don't really see the opening up of Walt's Apartment as another piece of proof of the Disney Corporation's slide into moral or ethical decay. It became inevitable because more and more people heard about it and they wanted to learn more about him, even if it means paying a few bucks to see it.

    It's a little disheartening to hear the repetitive "all they want is money" mantra over and over again. Without that money, Disneyland wouldn't be as clean as it is, as well-designed, as well-landscaped, or as full of entertaining things to see and do. Initially, DCA was a huge blunder and an error in the history of the Disney Corporation, as they underestimated what the public would pay to see if they slapped the Disney name on it. Ever since the 50th Anniversary, I have seen a huge turnaround in both parks, as they have attempted to please both sides of their fans: the ones who just want to have fun, and the ones who want Disneyland to be just like it was 50 years ago. It's a tough scale to balance.
    Pretty much nailed it with this post.

  2. #77

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Davelandweb View Post
    Gibson Greeting Cards, INA, Coca Cola, Hollywood Maxwell Intimate Apparel, Bank of America, Sunkist, Kodak, Blue Bird Shoes, Carnation, Swift Premium Meats, Upjohn, Maxwell House, Hills Brothers, Aunt Jemima, and Wurlitzer. Walt himself knew how to use the money of other corporations to get what he wanted done. The difference from "back then" and "today" is that the stores from 50-60 years ago have a veil of nostalgia and warmth wrapped around them.
    No, the difference is that Main Street's original corporate sponsors were American institutions during the period of history depicted by Main Street. They were as thematically appropriate to Main Street as its horseless carriages and horse-drawn trolleys.

    Trying to draw a parallel between Walt putting turn-of-the-century corporations on Main Street and Eisger putting McDonald's in Frontierland is invalid.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  3. #78

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

    Trying to draw a parallel between Walt putting turn-of-the-century corporations on Main Street and Eisger putting McDonald's in Frontierland is invalid.
    Yes because Iger should be blamed with putting McDonalds in Fontierland even though he didn't renew that deal...

  4. #79

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by disneylandfan95 View Post
    Yes because Iger should be blamed with putting McDonalds in Fontierland even though he didn't renew that deal...
    "Eisger Corp." is one of the many nicknames for post-1984 Corporate Disney -- a.k.a. "Eisner & Co.," "Mike & the Mechanics" and "The Paramount Mafia."
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

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  5. #80

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    The last time I spoke to Lilian was at a public appearance in the town square. I don't recall the ocasion, but we were chatting about all the changes in the park since day one. I looked at the firehouse and asked her what was her greatest memory of the apartment. She told me that she loved to sit by the window in the afternoon and watch people walking around the square. One day in the 60's a woman stood directly below the window looking up and told her husband "They certainly do make those dummy's look real." She said she was taken aback for a moment but realized the woman was really admiring the showmanship of her husband, and felt delighted. It would be wonderful to visit the apartment and feel the warmth she brought there for her family and friends.

  6. #81

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    For the people calling it sacred, ruins the mystery, or is in some way disrespectful(which is weird because tons of great people of history have their homes toured), dont go! but dont force those beliefs on to other people. The people in favor of it aren't demanding that you nay sayers take the tour. Why then, do you feel that they should be forced not to see it?

    Seriously, some mice chatters need to learn the phrase "to each his own."
    Exactly, right?.....
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  7. #82

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Just think, you too can take pictures like this one:

    Name:  apt3.jpg
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    And you can tell everyone "This is where Walt....."
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
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  8. #83

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway Guru View Post
    You forget that up until a few years ago, letting anyone other than a few select CM's into Walt's apartment was a preposterous idea. 10 years ago, letting the general public into Club 33 was a preposterous idea. 15 years ago, having a McDonald's inside the park was a preposterous idea. 20 years ago, using DL as an afterschool hangout was a preposterous idea. 25 years ago, allowing facial hair on male CM's was a preposterous idea.

    Declining by degrees in action, folks. It may be a preposterous idea now, but I give it no more than five years before you, yes, YOU, can stay in Walt's apartment for the very reasonable price of $5,000/night.
    That is a different story....this is visiting for a few mins...when people start sleeping there for cash...then I'll go on the other side

    But going in there for 100 bucks..is not the same thing as sleeping in there

  9. #84

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    No, the difference is that Main Street's original corporate sponsors were American institutions during the period of history depicted by Main Street. They were as thematically appropriate to Main Street as its horseless carriages and horse-drawn trolleys.

    Trying to draw a parallel between Walt putting turn-of-the-century corporations on Main Street and Eisger putting McDonald's in Frontierland is invalid.
    Was Don DeFore's name appropriate for Frontierland, too?

    Although it's easy to debate both sides, it's difficult to understand why you can't just state your opinion instead of branding mine with "No" and "Invalid."
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  10. #85

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    They were as thematically appropriate to Main Street as its horseless carriages and horse-drawn trolleys.
    It is a bit insincere to use the world 'thematically' as a catch-all for what is appropriate. As we have seen in photos before, the inside of the Kodak shop was something that would have fit in Tomorrowland and no where near thematically appropriate for Turn of the Century Main Street.
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  11. #86

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Timicus View Post
    As we have seen in photos before, the inside of the Kodak shop was something that would have fit in Tomorrowland and no where near thematically appropriate for Turn of the Century Main Street.
    What's it look like now?

    Disneyland didn't start out perfect. Money was sometimes tight--even for Walt. That's why he had to accept a full-scale air compressor on his 19th century steam locomotives, instead of scale versions.

    You don't know the difference between full size compressors and models. You probably don't even know what I'm talking about. The same went for interiors back then.

    Walt felt that you'd be accepting (even unknowing) of some of the shop interiors until he could get around to making them accurate.

    As they are (for the most part) today.

  12. #87

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    What's it look like now?

    Disneyland didn't start out perfect. Money was sometimes tight--even for Walt. That's why he had to accept a full-scale air compressor on his 19th century steam locomotives, instead of scale versions.

    You don't know the difference between full size compressors and models. You probably don't even know what I'm talking about. The same went for interiors back then.

    Walt felt that you'd be accepting (even unknowing) of some of the shop interiors until he could get around to making them accurate.

    As they are (for the most part) today.
    First off, no need to be rude or condescending. I know this is how responses are sometimes given, but not called for here. You presume to know what is the extent of my knowledge, do not.

    However, this kind of proves my point. Why does anyone feel the need to make excuses for the 'thematic' mistakes. I never faulted Mr. Disney for the Kodak interior. I do find fault with people making excuses when convenient but White-Knighting (and near-bullying) others when the same point is made.

    This is going way off-topic so I will bow out, but, once again, do not presume that because I have not published a book about Steam Trains that I have no knowledge or understanding of said subject. Thank You.
    Feel free to add me as a friend on Facebook (Just mention MiceChat)

    "The thing that makes us different is our way of thinking, our judgement and experience acquired over the years. Giving it 'heart.' Others haven't understood the public. We developed a psychological approach to everything we do here. We seem to know when to 'tap the heart.' Others have hit the intellect. We can hit them in an emotional way. Those that appeal to the intellect only appeal to a very limited group. Let's not let the mechanics get in here and foul the whole thing." -Walt Disney

  13. #88

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Davelandweb View Post
    Was Don DeFore's name appropriate for Frontierland, too?
    "Don DeFore's Silver Banjo Restaurant," located near the Golden Horseshoe Saloon, was totally appropriate for Frontierland. (And great food, BTW!)


    Quote Originally Posted by Davelandweb View Post
    Although it's easy to debate both sides, it's difficult to understand why you can't just state your opinion instead of branding mine with "No" and "Invalid."
    I think it's perfectly valid to call an argument paralleling turn-of-the-century companies on Walt's Main Street with McDonald's in Eisger's Frontierland "invalid," per the definition of "falsely based or reasoned; faulty: an invalid argument." It was used as a debate term, not a personal slight.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

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  14. #89

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    "Don DeFore's Silver Banjo Restaurant," located near the Golden Horseshoe Saloon, was totally appropriate for Frontierland. (And great food, BTW!)

    The restaurant might have been appropriate, but Don DeFore's name had nothing to do with the Frontierland theme or BBQ; in fact, the recipe was "borrowed" from a restaurant in Encino. And the Frito-Lay company (formed in the 1930's) had a part in the Wild West of Frontierland? Pepsi Cola (Golden Horseshoe sponsor) was also a little late in the game to be part of Frontierland as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    I think it's perfectly valid to call an argument paralleling turn-of-the-century companies on Walt's Main Street with McDonald's in Eisger's Frontierland "invalid," per the definition of "falsely based or reasoned; faulty: an invalid argument." It was used as a debate term, not a personal slight.
    Giving the definition of "invalid" only makes your post seem more condescending and off-topic.
    Last edited by Davelandweb; 08-15-2012 at 08:21 PM. Reason: incorrect quoting
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  15. #90

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    Re: The New ‘Walk in Walt’s Disneyland Footsteps’: Including Walt's Apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    No, the difference is that Main Street's original corporate sponsors were American institutions during the period of history depicted by Main Street. They were as thematically appropriate to Main Street as its horseless carriages and horse-drawn trolleys..
    Say what!? Kodak an american institution? Hollywood Maxwell? A bank? I applaud your efforts to apply some nostalgia to those sponsors, but I am 100% the motives were no different then as they are today. To subsidize the operations of the park. They were not chosen because they blended in with Main Street.


    For some some great trip reports, features and reviews, please check out http://www.thedisneylandreport.com.

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