P-l-l-l-l-l-l-lease sort out the legal wrangles!!!!

[OfficeDepot14]

I personally love the Roger Rabbit character not just because who framed Roger Rabbit is one of my all time favs but simply because his personality best represents mine.... completly goofy, out of wack, and clumsy. I would love to see Disney push him a lil more in the parks, if they did Im hoping he would be a big sell

[Soulquarian]

ORDDU: Several years ago Al Lutz had an article about the whole Roger Rabbit issue. If memory serves correctly, there was a dispute between Michael Eisner and Stephen Spielberg as to how the character would be used and promoted. Stephen became angry with Michael for not consulting him on certain legal situations regarding Roger so the result was that Roger was pulled from public view and was no longer allowed to roam the parks. This was particularly upsetting, seeing as how Roger Rabbit's CarToon spin opened around this time and, at one point, Roger wasn't allowed to be in Toon Town any longer! Since the original dispute things seem to have died down and I think the REAL reason Roger isn't seen in the parks any more is because current management has forgotten all about him. Perhaps a letter campaign would bring him back. We've always loved him and wish he was still out and about for meetings and greetings.

Exactly what I heard elsewhere as well. Profits from the character merch wasn't exactly ironed out, and there was supposedly a falling out between Spielberg (Amblin) and Disney.

That having been said, hopefully that rumored sequel gets made and they can redo those talks!

[nathan detroit]

As I stated in my opening post, Gary K Wolf did enter a legal dispute with Disney. Basically he was disputing Disney's figures and claimed he was owed more money. He also was disputing the franchising of the character including theme park presence.

For full (and very boring) details, see here: Wolf v. Walt Disney Pictures & Television (2008) 162 Cal.App.4th 1107 162 Cal.App.4th 1107



And I may add that there was a test for Roger Rabbit 2 was done in 1998 using CGI for the characters and directed by the wonderful Eric Goldberg. Eisner pulled the plug although I actually think the results look surprisingly promising. Don't believe me? See for yourself.... 1998 Roger Rabbit 2 CGI Test [Eric Goldberg] - YouTube

AND I doubt (as a previous poster suggested) that Zemekis would now consider doing any more motion capture after the failure of Mars Needs Moms. I certainly doubt Disney would finance him to do anymore at least.

[Witches of Morva]

ORWEN: Roger Rabbit is my favorite fluffy bunny of all! I cry every time I think about how his promising career was cut so short too soon all because of a disagreement between Michael Eisner and Stephen Spielberg. Roger deserves to be seen at the parks. Roger deserves sequels. Roger deserves to play Patty cake again! Won't somebody p-l-l-l-l-l-l-e-e-e-e-e-e-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-s-s-s-s-s-e-e-e let him make a come back???

[almandot]

If you can't put a dollar figure on it, it's meaningless to the corporation -- they don't do freebies. Which is why in my earlier post, I said the real problem with Roger is that he's a tough pitch.

But once again I have to bring up that Tokyo doesn't use him either. If they were allowed to, I'm just positive they would have, at some point since all parks worldwide got rid of him at the same time, brought him back for SOMEthing.

[JerrodDRagon]

Funny....I was going to ask this question...Roger Rabbit's movie was BIG and still has a huge following...yet he's not in Parades, WOC, has a meet and greet, yeah he has a ride from almost 20 years ago but I really feel he has been under used from how BIG he was and he could have been added to Mickey's Group as another member who is large as Goofy or Donald but has just be so under used many people don't really know who he is

[Mr Wiggins]

But once again I have to bring up that Tokyo doesn't use him either. If they were allowed to, I'm just positive they would have, at some point since all parks worldwide got rid of him at the same time, brought him back for SOMEthing.

True. But if Disney wanted Roger Rabbit walkarounds in the parks, Bob could make it happen with a couple phone calls. There's no sign that they want it. They've got plenty of other franchises on the fire, cooking cash very nicely for them -- franchises that they wholly own, dominating the demographics they desire (all except boys, which will happen when Marvel finishes baking and comes out of the oven). Meanwhile, there's no player inhouse who's going to champion Roger Rabbit and pitch him up the food chain. Not until someone outside revives him as serious marketing material. Then you'll have ROGER RAAAABIIIIIT!!!! comin' out your ears.

[Koutesu]

But once again I have to bring up that Tokyo doesn't use him either. If they were allowed to, I'm just positive they would have, at some point since all parks worldwide got rid of him at the same time, brought him back for SOMEthing.

When did they get rid of Roger? It seems like he kept appearing in Tokyo longer than the US parks. I don't remember seeing him in Disneyland in the late '90s, but my memory could just be playing tricks on me. The most recent video I can think of where Roger appears was for the 2001 version of Tokyo Disneyland Electrical Parade Dreamlights.

[almandot]

When did they get rid of Roger? It seems like he kept appearing in Tokyo longer than the US parks. I don't remember seeing him in Disneyland in the late '90s, but my memory could just be playing tricks on me. The most recent video I can think of where Roger appears was for the 2001 version of Tokyo Disneyland Electrical Parade Dreamlights.

I'm not sure when Disneyland took him out of Fantasmic's finale for good, but that's the last place he probably was seen.

WDW had him in spectro until it went away from MSEP in '99, and when it came back in '01 it was Genie..

Tokyo had him in dreamlights I don't know until when.. one video dated July 2002 still has him.


Was this big news?:P I'd actually never heard they pulled him out just this last May for the 20th anniversary at DL.. I guess DL now holds the most recent appearance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0a35BZlBdk (@26:45)

[animagusurreal]

If you can't put a dollar figure on it, it's meaningless to the corporation -- they don't do freebies. Which is why in my earlier post, I said the real problem with Roger is that he's a tough pitch.

Again I must ask - as in the Baloo thread - how did Marie get to be an A-list character!?!?!?!?! I mean, I have nothing against the character, but her appearance is not especially distinctive as cartoon kittens go, and her movie has no sequels or anything to promote. I guess it's because she's...girly? And girly sells?

(I don't think she has a walk-around character either, but she seems to be everywhere in terms of merchandise).

[almandot]

Again I must ask - as in the Baloo thread - how did Marie get to be an A-list character!?!?!?!?! I mean, I have nothing against the character, but her appearance is not especially distinctive as cartoon kittens go, and her movie has no sequels or anything to promote. I guess it's because she's...girly? And girly sells?

(I don't think she has a walk-around character either, but she seems to be everywhere in terms of merchandise).

Tokyo wanted her, essentially to be their own sort've Hello Kitty, so brought her as a walk-around in 2006. And thanks to them, WDW saw some potential and decided to bring her out too in 2009.

[Mr Wiggins]

Again I must ask - as in the Baloo thread - how did Marie get to be an A-list character!?!?!?!?! I mean, I have nothing against the character, but her appearance is not especially distinctive as cartoon kittens go, and her movie has no sequels or anything to promote. I guess it's because she's...girly? And girly sells?

(I don't think she has a walk-around character either, but she seems to be everywhere in terms of merchandise).

Exactly. Management has to see at least some movement on the character from somewhere -- box office, DVD, merch, the Channel, music, publishing, foreign, etc. -- indicating further investment in it is likely to be returned. They must be able to pitch a projection of ROI up the chain, and demonstrate how the character would complement (or at least not conflict with) marketing strategies for other character products aimed at the same target demographic, before a dime is greenlit. That, and/or have a major player personally champion it to top management as his/her fave (or their kids' fave).

You'd think budgets for little things like a walkaround character or two would be an easy greenlight, but low level management is even tighter with a dime than their bosses, who they try to impress by demonstrating how much money they've saved the Company. Too, the culture is one of not making a decision without an okay from above. Bottom line, in the Disney management hierarchy the safest decision for any manager to make is "no."

All of which is why Roger Rabbit is a tough pitch: a character with no significant income from elsewhere to generate management interest, no player to champion, and I'm guessing not much demand from target demographics showing up in the marketing data. If the character had at least two of the three, the legal squabbles wouldn't matter -- they only count against the ROI (as in how much it subtracts in franchise fees or settlement costs), and become irrelevant when the ROI projection is high.

[nathan detroit]

Exactly. Management has to see at least some movement on the character from somewhere -- box office, DVD, merch, the Channel, music, publishing, foreign, etc. -- indicating further investment in it is likely to be returned. They must be able to pitch a projection of ROI up the chain, and demonstrate how the character would complement (or at least not conflict with) marketing strategies for other character products aimed at the same target demographic, before a dime is greenlit. That, and/or have a major player personally champion it to top management as his/her fave (or their kids' fave).

You'd think budgets for little things like a walkaround character or two would be an easy greenlight, but low level management is even tighter with a dime than their bosses, who they try to impress by demonstrating how much money they've saved the Company. Too, the culture is one of not making a decision without an okay from above. Bottom line, in the Disney management hierarchy the safest decision for any manager to make is "no."

All of which is why Roger Rabbit is a tough pitch: a character with no significant income from elsewhere to generate management interest, no player to champion, and I'm guessing not much demand from target demographics showing up in the marketing data. If the character had at least two of the three, the legal squabbles wouldn't matter -- they only count against the ROI (as in how much it subtracts in franchise fees or settlement costs), and become irrelevant when the ROI projection is high.

This sounds depressingly like it may be accurate. Kinda of a vicious circle then? Unless a new film is made with Roger then he will forever languish in limbo then? How can he prove that people love him if the merchandise is not there to prove it? Isn't the popularity of the ride enough? Or do the management think that the theme has no impact on this? If this is the case, then I suppose it could be argued that Mr Toad should be walking around the parks and have his face on T-shirts and other assorted crap.
It would seem that Marie appeared by popular demand but that it was tied to Disney recognising a potentially highly merchandisable character especially in the wake of Pooh and friends apparent drop in public favour. And sadly Roger does not appeal to the valuable 'little girl' and 'cat lady' demographics - rather to the niche 'nerd' and 'hard core fan' catagories.
Our only hope would seem to be down to Mr Zemekis. But with hand-drawn animation seemingly prohibitive, CGI-ing the characters seeming to miss the entire point of the concept and Bob Hoskin's recent upsetting announcement* this seems very unlikely. Seems us Roger fans may just have to make do with the ride which is of course far more than many characters and franchises get.

*I know Roger 2 could be easily made without him. But.....

[Mr Wiggins]

^ Yep. The other thing that's needed is for the people handling the character's marketing to understand him as a character -- to have a gut feeling for what makes him work as an individual character, as opposed to "just another toon" who is marketed by-the-numbers. That's hard to come by in any company. Those of us here who grew up with animation "get" Roger Rabbit without even having to think about it. Professional marketing departments, composed of business people who may have little knowledge of and no personal affinity for a particular character, or who may not understand the sensibility of where he comes from, can perceive him very differently... which affects how he's presented. Or in this case, not presented.