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  1. #136

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Meville View Post
    Eisner took power in 1985.
    Face it, the reason why you, and a generation of people are fans of disney was a direct result of the Disney Corp's actions in the 80's and 90's.
    So the reason I am a fan of Disneyland the Disney Corporation is because I was born in the 1990's and solely because of the way the Company was run during that time?

  2. #137

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by explodingboy View Post
    So the reason I am a fan of Disneyland the Disney Corporation is because I was born in the 1990's and solely because of the way the Company was run during that time?
    You were born in the 90's, you were a child growing up in a time of fortitude of a media mogul; of course Eisner era had a hand in you liking Disney, IT WAS EVERYWHERE. Why is that such a bad thing? Granted that love for Disney has opened your eyes to other aspects of the company and how great it's founder was, but do not discount the "dark times" so quickly.

  3. #138

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Those who've actually read the many posts criticizing Eisner's regime over the years understand that it's a much more layered and informed critique than the simplistic "good vs. evil" parody that so many posts misrepresent it as.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  4. #139

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Those who've actually read the many posts criticizing Eisner's regime over the years understand that it's a much more layered and informed critique than the simplistic "good vs. evil" parody that so many posts misrepresent it as.

    Is there an unbiased version of the events surrounding Michael Eisners regine at Disney from an insiders perspective?

  5. #140

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenstate5 View Post
    Walt Disney died before the summer blockbuster even existed
    ever hear of The Wizard of Oz?

    ---------- Post added 09-05-2012 at 01:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by red barchetta View Post
    Well, now I know whose articles to stop reading. This is an embarrassment.
    Steve's knowledge and collection of DRR related artifacts have very little bearing on this discussion. Some people like Fantasmic, some don't. While I don't agree with some of the back and forth, I stop short of calling any of it an embarrassment. It's nice to see both sides of a discussion.

    ---------- Post added 09-05-2012 at 01:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by explodingboy View Post
    So the reason I am a fan of Disneyland the Disney Corporation is because I was born in the 1990's and solely because of the way the Company was run during that time?
    Depending on your specific tastes and the movies you cite that could be accurate, or it could be completely false. I have plenty of friends, all children of the 80's and 90's, who cite movies from the 40's, 50's, and 60's as their respective "favorites". Most of them are enchanted with the history of Disneyland, scrambling to find photos and read stories of how things were. Others cite more "modern" cinema, and relate the Disneyland of their own childhood.

    So again, the statement "could" be true depending on your own influences growing up and your own personal taste.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  6. #141

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    When was the last time you checked New Orleans of the 1860s?
    Wow, I never knew New Orleans Square was set the 19th century. Thanks for the info.
    Fear of the unknown.

    They are afraid of new ideas.

    They are loaded with prejudices, not based upon any reality, but based onÖ if something is new, I reject it immediately because itís frightening to me. What they do instead is just stay with the familiar.
    You know, to me, the most beautiful things in all the universe, are the most mysterious.











  7. #142

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Meville View Post
    Is there an unbiased version of the events surrounding Michael Eisners regine at Disney from an insiders perspective?
    No. Inhouse, Michael hyperpoliticized the Company's culture with a managerial style that was so toxic it had to be experienced to be believed. Many in management and uncounted management wannabes emulated his style, while many others (primarily creatives) loathed it. The war of opinion continues to this day: Michael still has his defenders and admirers within the Company and without, and his hoards of haters, particularly among those who still bear the battle scars of having dealt with him in business or creatively.

    Michael, of course, was no more ruthless, vicious or egotistical than any number of top corporate CEOs of the 80s and 90s. What made him particularly bizarre was the enormous contrast between his sensibility and style, and that of the product of the company he took over -- and especially, its founder.

    One thing is for certain, the Disney's creative boom in the 80's was more the result of Jeffrey and the creative people he worked with than anything else. You want to see Michael's personal hands-on management in action? Look at the animated films after Jeffrey left. Look at who Michael promoted to run Disney Animation. Look at who Michael promoted to be President of Disneyland -- and who he praised so often that he was rumored as Michael's successor.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  8. #143

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    One thing is for certain, the Disney's creative boom in the 80's was more the result of Jeffrey and the creative people he worked with than anything else. You want to see Michael's personal hands-on management in action? Look at the animated films after Jeffrey left. Look at who Michael promoted to run Disney Animation. Look at who Michael promoted to be President of Disneyland -- and who he praised so often that he was rumored as Michael's successor.
    Are you saying Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan, and Tarzan all were failures?
    Fear of the unknown.

    They are afraid of new ideas.

    They are loaded with prejudices, not based upon any reality, but based onÖ if something is new, I reject it immediately because itís frightening to me. What they do instead is just stay with the familiar.
    You know, to me, the most beautiful things in all the universe, are the most mysterious.











  9. #144

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    Are you saying Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan, and Tarzan all were failures?
    Nope. Are you saying they were hits? Are you saying they are anything like Lion King, Mermaid or Beauty and the Beast? Those films were made in spite of Michael Eisner and the toxic management structure he put in place at Feature Animation. When Michael started giving notes on projects like Atlantis, those projects started tanking and creative people started leaving (voluntarily or otherwise). Ditto at WDI and Disneyland.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 09-05-2012 at 02:20 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  10. #145

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    Wow, I never knew New Orleans Square was set the 19th century. Thanks for the info.
    Sure.

    "It seemed appropriate to create a new attraction at the bend of the river. And so, Disneyland's New Orleans Square came into being - a New Orleans of a century ago when she was the 'Gay Paree' of the American frontier."

    --Walt Disney, 1966.

  11. #146

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    Are you saying Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan, and Tarzan all were failures?
    It's interesting you mention Hunchback and Hercules as both are considered "low points" in modern Disney cinema. Hunchback had a very serious religious tone and the content actually scared Disney's code audience (families with small children). Hercules was seen by many as a failure on multiple levels; most notable being the blatant product pushes and modern references! Both also launched HIGHLY successful live shows at Disneyland. People still talk about Festival of Fools... and the Hercules Parade was really something to see!

    Mulan, Lion King, and Tarzan by comparison are seen by many as highlights of that era.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  12. #147

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Meville View Post
    From wikipedia, sourced from the History of Disneyland.



    Please explain why my statement was not true.

    Edit: Also of course the kids having fun with their parents bit too.
    Always check the reliability of your sources - especially with Wikipedia. The footnote on the particular section you quoted did not lead to a primary source such as an official Disney historical archive, or a reliable secondary source like a major newspaper. This source was an internet site created by a fan because he didn't like the way other fansites presented the information. He gives no indication of where he got his information nor evidence of its validity.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  13. #148

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Always check the reliability of your sources - especially with Wikipedia. The footnote on the particular section you quoted did not lead to a primary source such as an official Disney historical archive, or a reliable secondary source like a major newspaper. This source was an internet site created by a fan because he didn't like the way other fansites presented the information. He gives no indication of where he got his information nor evidence of its validity.
    True enough, as is the issue of Wikipedia. Just for fun I'm going to email the web master and ask for his source.

  14. #149

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Meville View Post
    True enough, as is the issue of Wikipedia. Just for fun I'm going to email the web master and ask for his source.
    I would love to hear his answer.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  15. #150

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I would love to hear his answer.
    Sent. I'm not sure what they will write back though, their "contact us" page is littered with what to send and what not to send. They may take offence.

    This is what I sent:

    Hello,

    First I'd like to thank you for your website JustDisney.com, it is very informative and easy to review.

    Your website was cited as an article on wikipedia concerning the original idea of Disneyland. You mention that the park was originally know as the "Mickey Mouse Park". Do you have a source for this bit of trivia.

    Here is a site for your reference:

    Walt Disney's Disneyland

    Disneyland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Thank-you so much for your time.

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