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  1. #151

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Meville View Post
    Ok, but i'm still correct. Disneyland was concived as an idea to tie-in the Walt's most popular property, regardless of what it was, or what it became.

    Eisner took power in 1985.
    Face it, the reason why you, and a generation of people are fans of disney was a direct result of the Disney Corp's actions in the 80's and 90's.
    Well, it started going to hell when Wells accidentally died (1994). Wells allegedly was the No Man to Eisner's "creativity." (Creative? yes. Genius? No. That takes 1 good idea in 10. Eisner is more like 1 in 100, and his were more about stuffing money in his pocket than making long-term eternally satisfying product.) You know what happens when the No Man dies? Everything gets yessed.

    Then in 1995, Pressler the retail store genius was put in charge of Disneyland.
    1995: last time an "E-ticket" level attraction was added to Disneyland.
    No, not a coincidence.

    Anywho, Phineas and Ferb greatest coaster ever. Put it on TSI, have it go uder ROA to backstage where some more fun can be added.
    Last edited by sediment; 09-05-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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  2. #152

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Light bulb moment! What they should do is take the backwoods of The Rivers of America into a modern version of Mine Train through Natures Wonderland. With state-of-the-art audioanimatronics and superb surroundings it could be a sight to see. If they could do something that amazing back then, just think of what they can do now (just look at Cars Land.)

  3. #153

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by 999happyhants View Post
    Light bulb moment! What they should do is take the backwoods of The Rivers of America into a modern version of Mine Train through Natures Wonderland. With state-of-the-art audioanimatronics and superb surroundings it could be a sight to see. If they could do something that amazing back then, just think of what they can do now (just look at Cars Land.)
    This!!!
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  4. #154

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    ever hear of The Wizard of Oz?


    ...the film that was originally a flop when it debuted the week prior to Labor Day in 1939? Yeah don't see how that proves your point.

    The first "summer blockbuster" is most known as Jaws, which came out in June of 1975.

  5. #155

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    ever hear of The Wizard of Oz?
    I get your point, but you picked a poor movie to use for a rebuttal. Plus, the poster you are commenting on is factually correct. Wizard of Oz was a flop upon initial release. Films used to rotate in and out of circulation for years prior to the take off of television. Wizard didn't really make a return on investment until it was shown on Television. Gone With the Wind, for example, was re-issued several times. Most recently in 1974.

    At the time DL was envisioned, Summer Blockbusters had yet to occur. Jaws is widely considered to be the first.

    Anyway, to my point... When DL opened, there were a lot of tie-in's to existing characters and movies. There's been a lot of talk about it being primarily contained in FantasyLand, but Davy Crockett was an extremely popular Disney character at that time. I would even consider the "sponsorship" of attractions by brand names to be along a similar vein.

    It was, and continues to be all about advertisement. Walt was a mastermind of pushing his brand. He was all over the media of his day. He was a showman. Albeit one of the most imaginative of all time. This doesn't change the fact that he knew how to get his brand out there. His strategies paved the way for the conglomerate we see today. He just did it on a smaller scale.

    Branding at the parks is something that I have always seen. Because it has always been there in one form or another. I think the point that gets a lot of people today is the perception that there are no original ideas because everything is about the brand and not the experience. I completely agree with this.

    On my most recent trip I noticed that I still gravitated to the "old" attractions. These are the most fun. At least for me. Yes, I do enjoy Star Tours and Indy as well. I just think it's a shame that these IP's are owned by a third party. This actually kind of proves the point regarding lack of imagination in that it took an outsider to generate a new idea. That's a real shame.





    "I do not like to repeat successes. I like to go on to other things." - Walt Disney


  6. #156

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Sooooo I just finished reading all these posts after about 45 minutes...and sheesh there are some real strong passions about Disneyland and how it should be. I am only 19 and so my opinion might not be as authoritative as others who have seen more of the changes in the park over the last few decades...but I think the one thing we have to remember is that WE ARE ALL Disney fans. The Disneyland I grew up with is definitely not the same as some of you remember it, but its what I grew up with and its what sparked my absolute love for Disney and its vivid history. I've read many a selection of books including Steve's All Aboard the Disneyland Railroad and I love reading about the past of Disneyland and how everything came to be. Yes times will change, but the feeling I get everytime I walk under those arches has always been the same. Disneyland and everything Walt stood for will always remain a constant in my mind.

    "To all that come to this happy place: welcome. Disneyland is your land. Here age relives fond memories of the past, and here youth may savor the challenge and promise of the future. Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America... with hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world." - Walt Disney

    Jack Sparrow - "You have been monstrously deceived." Pirate - We are decepted then..." Jack Sparrow - "Yes"

  7. #157

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by D3COY View Post
    Sooooo I just finished reading all these posts after about 45 minutes...and sheesh there are some real strong passions about Disneyland and how it should be. I am only 19 and so my opinion might not be as authoritative as others who have seen more of the changes in the park over the last few decades...but I think the one thing we have to remember is that WE ARE ALL Disney fans. The Disneyland I grew up with is definitely not the same as some of you remember it, but its what I grew up with and its what sparked my absolute love for Disney and its vivid history. I've read many a selection of books including Steve's All Aboard the Disneyland Railroad and I love reading about the past of Disneyland and how everything came to be. Yes times will change, but the feeling I get everytime I walk under those arches has always been the same. Disneyland and everything Walt stood for will always remain a constant in my mind.

    "To all that come to this happy place: welcome. Disneyland is your land. Here age relives fond memories of the past, and here youth may savor the challenge and promise of the future. Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America... with hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world." - Walt Disney
    Well said.
    For all of us, whenever we were introduced to Disneyland...whatever our age, whatever the era, whatever the imagineers and marketeers had in mind at that moment in time, there is a magic about the place that leaves a mark. There's no way to reduce that magic to just one thing...everything from nostalgia & honoring the past to innovation and dreaming about the future. I hope lots of diverse voices and points of view continue to inform the evolution of Disneyland.

  8. #158

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by emwhysee View Post
    Well said.
    For all of us, whenever we were introduced to Disneyland...whatever our age, whatever the era, whatever the imagineers and marketeers had in mind at that moment in time, there is a magic about the place that leaves a mark. There's no way to reduce that magic to just one thing...everything from nostalgia & honoring the past to innovation and dreaming about the future. I hope lots of diverse voices and points of view continue to inform the evolution of Disneyland.
    Thanks emwhysee!

    As Walt Disney said..."Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world."

    And there is plenty of imagination left in this world to spare.
    Jack Sparrow - "You have been monstrously deceived." Pirate - We are decepted then..." Jack Sparrow - "Yes"

  9. #159

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Wouldn't the Sound of Music be considered an early blockbuster? I had hear that the success of that movie is what kept 20th Century Fox out of bankruptcy after the miserable failure of Cleopatra.

    And 4th Gen -- I mentioned Davy Crockett a few pages ago. He is an actual figure in history. While Disney did reference the Fess Parker character on opening day, the focus of Davy Crockett within Frontierland was based mostly on Davy Crockett the man more than Davy Crockett the character.

    ---------- Post added 09-05-2012 at 11:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by D3COY View Post
    Thanks emwhysee!

    As Walt Disney said..."Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world."

    And there is plenty of imagination left in this world to spare.
    Thank you for recognizing the second part of that quote. Many Micechatters seem to ignore that part.

  10. #160

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Thank you for recognizing the second part of that quote. Many Micechatters seem to ignore that part.
    Of course. I could never leave out the most important part of that quote!
    Jack Sparrow - "You have been monstrously deceived." Pirate - We are decepted then..." Jack Sparrow - "Yes"

  11. #161

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Wouldn't the Sound of Music be considered an early blockbuster? I had hear that the success of that movie is what kept 20th Century Fox out of bankruptcy after the miserable failure of Cleopatra.
    The Sound of Music was no doubt a success, but not what Jaws achieved.

    Jaws spawned not only a surge of big-budget, audience-pleasing popcorn movies in the summer months, but also the notion of franchising films, spawning even more than sequels. "The Sound of Music" is a stage musical turned movie. Successful movie, but there's no Sound of Music 2. No Von Trapp action figures.

    Jaws had a few sequels, launched a nationwide craze leading not only to it being a household name but changing the way we view sharks forever... and of course, its own theme park ride.

    That is a blockbuster. (and it came out in summer of course!)

    Back on topic, I'm glad people are recognizing that Disneyland was filled with brands in 1955. Make all your arguments about Walt's original intentions, he was still in full control when that park opened on that July day. No getting around that, period. I have no idea where this strange, anti-corporate paranoia comes from but it needs to be finally accepted that it's been around since the beginning.

  12. #162

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    And 4th Gen -- I mentioned Davy Crockett a few pages ago. He is an actual figure in history. While Disney did reference the Fess Parker character on opening day, the focus of Davy Crockett within Frontierland was based mostly on Davy Crockett the man more than Davy Crockett the character.

    While I am well aware of the fact that Davy Crockett was a well known historical figure at the time the park opened, he was also an extremely popular Disney character at the same time. I highly doubt that the name Davy Crockett would even appear in the the park if there wasn't a TV show attached to him at the time the park opened.

    ---------- Post added 09-06-2012 at 09:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by D3COY View Post
    Of course. I could never leave out the most important part of that quote!
    The chief complaint isn't whether or not there's imagination in the world. It's all about the fact that there is no imagination left in the parks. The majority of disgruntled fans feel that this has been a trend since the 80's. Unless there is a character or movie attached to an attraction, then it doesn't get anywhere. This is a huge problem for many fans.





    "I do not like to repeat successes. I like to go on to other things." - Walt Disney


  13. #163

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Gen Disney Fan View Post
    The chief complaint isn't whether or not there's imagination in the world. It's all about the fact that there is no imagination left in the parks. The majority of disgruntled fans feel that this has been a trend since the 80's. Unless there is a character or movie attached to an attraction, then it doesn't get anywhere. This is a huge problem for many fans.
    Precisely.

  14. #164

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Always check the reliability of your sources - especially with Wikipedia. The footnote on the particular section you quoted did not lead to a primary source such as an official Disney historical archive, or a reliable secondary source like a major newspaper. This source was an internet site created by a fan because he didn't like the way other fansites presented the information. He gives no indication of where he got his information nor evidence of its validity.
    But that particular section is also covered in several books. People shouldn't use the 'oh Wikipedia ' throwdown if they don't know it to actually be wrong
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  15. #165

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by 4th Gen Disney Fan View Post
    While I am well aware of the fact that Davy Crockett was a well known historical figure at the time the park opened, he was also an extremely popular Disney character at the same time. I highly doubt that the name Davy Crockett would even appear in the the park if there wasn't a TV show attached to him at the time the park opened.
    To my knowledge there isn't a lot of reference to Bowie or Boone in the park.
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