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  1. #76

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I guess what bothers me is the corporate push and the realization that things like Jungle, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Matterhorn,Thunder and Space likely wouldn't be possible today without some main movie or character shoehorned in. The reality is that most of Disneyland today is a commercial. Those concepts may have started out as original imaginative thoughts but by the time they are finished products they're attached to a movie or a character we already met. That is of course assuming it isn't just a retelling of an already accomplished work or already known movie.

    Imagination and creativity are gifts that the corporate side of Disney seem content to stamp out the moment they're spotted.
    Bingo.
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  2. #77

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I guess what bothers me is the corporate push and the realization that things like Jungle, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Matterhorn,Thunder and Space likely wouldn't be possible today without some main movie or character shoehorned in. The reality is that most of Disneyland today is a commercial. Those concepts may have started out as original imaginative thoughts but by the time they are finished products they're attached to a movie or a character we already met. That is of course assuming it isn't just a retelling of an already accomplished work or already known movie.
    You know, I do agree that Disney should come up with something non-Disney, but you have to remember it's "Disneyland", and you can't blame them for incorporating their movies into the rides.
    Fear of the unknown.

    They are afraid of new ideas.

    They are loaded with prejudices, not based upon any reality, but based onÖ if something is new, I reject it immediately because itís frightening to me. What they do instead is just stay with the familiar.
    You know, to me, the most beautiful things in all the universe, are the most mysterious.











  3. #78

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorQ9 View Post
    I have been marveling at the counterpart to Tom Sawyer's Island at Disneyland Paris. It functions as a beautiful esthetic to the Rivers of America yet houses an E-Ticket attraction.

    Attachment 23513

    While the original Tom Sawyer Island was once a very popular spot (a deluxe children's playground). The concept has not aged well. If DLP can establish a great attraction on an island, then why can't the talented Imagineers work their magic and transform Tom Sawyer's Island into a something notable?
    Just to point out to some people here who have wildly missed the point of BTM in Paris

    1. European audiences tend to favour thrills more, hence the more intense (and IMO best) version of BTM
    2. It's on an island, but the station is not...the train reaches the island by a tunnel
    3. It's not that loud really. This island is at the forefront of the land, and is not audible throughout all of frontierland. DLP has the largest frontierland in my understanding, and BTM is only seen and heard from the opening of the land. The rest is wooded and ranch themed as opposed to the 'boom town' of Thunder Mesa seen here. This bit here shares an overarching story amongst the town, molly brown, BTM and Phantom Manor.
    4. As a centrepiece of the land it works perfectly, and provides a great view from the Molly Brown.
    5. There IS a quiet and relaxing 'island' in the form of Adventure Isle, Disneyland Paris' answer to Tom Sawyer Island, in Adventureland. It's not boat accessible, but it's bridge accessible. Given that Frontierland and Adventureland have swapped places in Disneyland Paris, this puts Adventure Isle in exactly the same location as in DL and WDW.

    I was getting tired of people claiming they'd abandon visiting DL if they did this, and people throwing their metaphorical toys out of the pram over something they clearly don't understand.

  4. #79

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    You know, I do agree that Disney should come up with something non-Disney, but you have to remember it's "Disneyland", and you can't blame them for incorporating their movies into the rides.
    There is a substantial difference between incorporating some of their franchises, and relying solely on franchises to prop up questionable attraction concepts.

    I also wonder about "turning back the clock" and bringing Tom & Huck "back". When the island originally opened there was a lot of reference to Tom & Huck, but over the years those references dwindled. Eventually "Tom Sawyer's Island" was little more than a name. There's a decent argument there as to whether this was a reflection of the times. In the 1950's Twain was extensively taught in elementary schools. By the late 90's a lot of Twain was moved to "high school level" due to the racial implications of slavery. I'm told some could make it all the way to college now without being "required" to read Twain. THAT has always bothered me. While the books provide an excellent learning tool about racial tensions and slavery... at their heart they speak of boyhood adventures. It's difficult material, and parents have to make a choice at some point as to whether or not they feel it is appropriate.

    So my question is this... assuming the island is restored to its former "glory", would the name really matter if the target audience doesn't even know who it is? If you called it Frontier Island, would it really matter as long as the fort and the rocks and the caves are all restored?
    Last edited by techskip; 09-03-2012 at 01:09 PM.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  5. #80

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post


    Oh good lord, this is Disneyland we're talking about, a little corner of the world where you can have fun and forget the stress of the real world.

    Yes...the "it's just an amusement park" argument.

    Point taken.

    ---------- Post added 09-03-2012 at 09:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    It's difficult material, and parents have to make a choice at some point as to whether or not they feel it is appropriate.
    Huck Finn, maybe, but Tom Sawyer isn't a dificult read at all, even for youngsters. Most boys will easily relate to its stories of annoying siblings, boring school, cat tormenting, condescending adults, running away from home, first kisses.

    But to answer your question, the name isn't all that important to me--although "Tom Sawyer Island" has a nice ring. This is why the "Tom Sawyer isn't relevant today" argument fails--one never needed to know about Tom or Huck to have fun there.
    Last edited by Steve DeGaetano; 09-03-2012 at 01:50 PM.

  6. #81

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Huck Finn, maybe, but Tom Sawyer isn't a dificult read at all, even for youngsters. Most boys will easily relate to its stories of annoying siblings, boring school, cat tormenting, condescending adults, running away from home, first kisses.
    Tom & Huck go together so naturally, it is almost impossible to read one, and not pick up the other. You have everything from alcoholism to child abuse to slavery to mob rule all in the span of a couple of books. As I said it's a great teaching medium, but the promotion to the higher levels of school to some degree makes sense.

    But to answer your question, the name isn't all that important to me--although "Tom Sawyer Island" has a nice ring. This is why the "Tom Sawyer isn't relevant today" argument fails--one never needed to know about Tom or Huck to have fun there.
    So the argument is the restoration of the island, not the characters or references to the characters.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  7. #82

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post

    Billions and Billions of people eat at McDonalds.

    But that doesn't prove the food is high quaility.
    He didn't say high quality. He said popular.


    For some some great trip reports, features and reviews, please check out http://www.thedisneylandreport.com.

  8. #83

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Yes...the "it's just an amusement park" argument.
    Believe me, I've never thought of Disneyland as "just another amusement park", I just think it's a place to be happy and not take things too seriously, which you do.
    Fear of the unknown.

    They are afraid of new ideas.

    They are loaded with prejudices, not based upon any reality, but based onÖ if something is new, I reject it immediately because itís frightening to me. What they do instead is just stay with the familiar.
    You know, to me, the most beautiful things in all the universe, are the most mysterious.











  9. #84

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    I just think it's a place to be happy and not take things too seriously, which you do.
    Yes--an amusement park. Nothing to take seriously.

    Again, point taken. You think of the place in very simple terms.

    I don't.

    ---------- Post added 09-04-2012 at 01:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by disneylandreport View Post
    He didn't say high quality. He said popular.
    "Popular" vs. "High Quality."
    Disney usually picks one. Which one do you think it is?

  10. #85

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Yes--an amusement park. Nothing to take seriously.

    Again, point taken. You think of the place in very simple terms.

    I don't.
    easy old friend, that could border on an insult...

    ---------- Post added 09-04-2012 at 01:02 AM ----------

    "Popular" vs. "High Quality."
    Disney usually picks one. Which one do you think it is?
    For the most part Disney is capable of high quality executions of popular franchises. They seem to do great when handed the material to use by the studio. It's when they have to use their imagination and make up their own stuff that they start to have trouble.

    I think it is amazing that Disneyland can be enjoyed on MULTIPLE levels at the same time. From the individual yearning for historical accuracy and details down to the casual tourist there to simply have a good time... and all sorts in between. I believe that is what encourages people to come back.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  11. #86

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Yes--an amusement park. Nothing to take seriously.

    Again, point taken. You think of the place in very simple terms.

    I don't.

    ---------- Post added 09-04-2012 at 01:02 AM ----------

    "Popular" vs. "High Quality."
    Disney usually picks one. Which one do you think it is?
    I don't know but sometimes they do pick both like with Fantasmic.


    Simple terms? Or some can just simply enjoy the beautiful park for what it is today & it's recent additions, instead of sulking in the past which helps no one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    I'm gonna stop arguing here, but I do not, and have NEVER thought of Disneyland as just another amusement park, but you somehow think that anyone who has the least bit of fun in the park doesn't take it seriously. Sir, I suggest you go to Disneyland just once and have fun; don't think all that much about why Disney did this, and why did that, and stop seeing Disneyland as a state capitol.
    ^

  12. #87

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    I'm gonna stop arguing here, but I do not, and have NEVER thought of Disneyland as just another amusement park, but you somehow think that anyone who has the least bit of fun in the park doesn't take it seriously. Sir, I suggest you go to Disneyland just once and have fun; don't think all that much about why Disney did this, and why did that, and stop seeing Disneyland as a state capitol.

    ---------- Post added 09-03-2012 at 06:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BlAcKoUt510 View Post
    Simple terms? Or some can just simply enjoy the beautiful park for what it is today & it's recent additions, instead of sulking in the past which helps no one.
    Exactly!
    Fear of the unknown.

    They are afraid of new ideas.

    They are loaded with prejudices, not based upon any reality, but based onÖ if something is new, I reject it immediately because itís frightening to me. What they do instead is just stay with the familiar.
    You know, to me, the most beautiful things in all the universe, are the most mysterious.











  13. #88

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Kids will always want to run and play. It helps them get their energy out so they are calmer and more able to wait in lines. When I was a kid, Tom Sawyer Island was the greatest playground that had ever been built. That should be enough. No actual ride is necessary. Kids supply the imagination.

  14. #89

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Weaver View Post
    Kids will always want to run and play. It helps them get their energy out so they are calmer and more able to wait in lines. When I was a kid, Tom Sawyer Island was the greatest playground that had ever been built. That should be enough. No actual ride is necessary. Kids supply the imagination.
    And what I bolded. That is what Disney is slowly taking away. It used to be that Disneyland would supply the cues and the imagination was left up to "the kids". Now, everyone just sits back and lets Disney spoon feed everything to them.

  15. #90

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    Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterMatt View Post
    Yeah, that Fantasmic! show is terrible, NOBODY likes it.

    In case you didn't notice it, a couple of generations have now grown up with Fantasmic, and cherish it just as much as anything you might be holding on to from your childhood. You just sound like you're bitter that the world (and fun and imagination) have passed you by.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    Yea, nobody likes Fantasmic, people just like to sit in the cold for two hours in front of Rivers of America cause they don't like Fantasmic.
    Just wanted to point out that CoasterMatt was being sarcastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    It wasn't before they desecrated it with the out of place pirate theme.
    This!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    You need to understand that for Disney to keep innovating and keeping the park fresh, old attractions/lands need reboots, and keeping everything the same way it was in 1955, is NOT the way to do it. Now I'm not saying that the Lone Ranger and Pirates need to take over the island, all I'm saying is Tom Sawyer Island needs a refresher.
    It's not about keeping everything how it was in 1955. It's about not having things ruined by sub-par themes (lipstick on a pig, so to speak) and cheap movie tie-ins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meville View Post
    What story is the Pirate island trying to tell you? It seams to me that they just took thematic elements out and replaced them with Pirates.
    There is no story. It was made to seem like Tom Sawyer and pals went on a bunch of wacky pirate adventures, but in reality it was just done to get more foot traffic riding on the success of the PotC films.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chesire View Post
    Believe me, I've never thought of Disneyland as "just another amusement park", I just think it's a place to be happy and not take things too seriously, which you do.
    You have to understand, some people on this board have seen the rise and fall of the "imagination" of the park. Just like you have your mental image of Disneyland - they have theirs. Hell, it bothers me that everything is a movie tie in or cheap marketing attempt and I'm a 90's baby. I can only imagine how people who actually frequented the park in the 50's, 60's, and even 70's feel.

    Like I mentioned before, I think Fantasmic! has run it's course and I wouldn't be super bummed if it was taken out for a while. I enjoyed it growing up, but as I've gotten older it's become a little less appealing.

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