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  1. #16

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Where did you read that?
    It's not so much that he necessarily wanted to expand Disneyland, per se, but he desperately wanted ownership of the land around Disneyland so you wouldn't have the cheap motels and restaurants just over the berm from the Happiest Place on Earth!

    I think one could rightly assume, with no WDW in Florida and Disney ownership of the surrounding land in Anaheim, Disneyland could have expected an expansion relatively quickly.

    ---------- Post added 09-26-2012 at 02:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    Walt Disney didn't want another Disneyland in Florida, he wanted EPCOT.
    But Walt also knew that EPCOT was such an unknown idea to the general public that he needed a draw to get people "on property." Thus, an east coast Disneyland was needed.
    That's why he agreed to do the New York World's Fair in the '60's. To see if the Disney brand of theme park/attraction would work on the east coast as it worked on the west coast.
    So, in a sense (while Walt was the one who said he never wanted to repeat himself), Walt DID want a Disneyland in Florida. But, really, only as an means to an end.

    ---------- Post added 09-26-2012 at 02:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by orbitalpunk View Post
    We probably would have gotten WestCot.
    Wouldn't it just have been EPCOT since there would be no EPCOT in Florida?
    Last edited by TodAZ1; 09-26-2012 at 11:23 AM.
    "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations, the new needs friends." - Anton Ego

  2. #17

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredSimmons View Post
    He might also have been able to persuade Anaheim officials to use eminent domain to acquire surrounding parcels to increase the size of the resort.
    The government can't take property from private citizens and give it to another private citizen (well, at least not in Walt's day. )

  3. #18

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    to reiterate what some people have already said, if WDW wasn't built, i really think disney would have been taken over and split off. disney came close in the 80s to being raided barbarians-at-the-gate-style and basically the only bright spot was the theme park business, thanks in large part by then to the success of WDW (animation at that point was terrible, and their movie division was near last among the studios). it took roy to revolt against his cousin-in-law and get in eisner/wells that helped save the company. interestingly, in the early 2000s, comcast wanted to take over disney too, but the one thing they didn't want was the theme parks since they would have no clue on what to do with those, which i think made their bid way too low. w/o WDW, the value of disney (already low at that point) would have been lower (since theme park revenue was keeping them afloat in the turbulent last eisner years), and comcast might have paid a much higher premium for the company that the shareholders would have had to have at least consider.

    so in short, WDW might have very well saved disney!

  4. #19

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    I can't fathom there not being another Walt Disney Co Resort / Theme Park, because the Magic Kingdom and Disneyland both influenced each other via innovation and continued updating of technology within a Ride (or Attraction) ....

    Would I want to see what Walt Disney truly envisioned for an Experimental Prototype City Of Tomorrow become an actual theme park? Absolutely (& I still think a WestCot can be that Utopian City of the Future) ....

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  5. #20

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomaslw View Post
    to reiterate what some people have already said, if WDW wasn't built, i really think disney would have been taken over and split off. disney came close in the 80s to being raided barbarians-at-the-gate-style and basically the only bright spot was the theme park business, thanks in large part by then to the success of WDW (animation at that point was terrible, and their movie division was near last among the studios). it took roy to revolt against his cousin-in-law and get in eisner/wells that helped save the company. interestingly, in the early 2000s, comcast wanted to take over disney too, but the one thing they didn't want was the theme parks since they would have no clue on what to do with those, which i think made their bid way too low. w/o WDW, the value of disney (already low at that point) would have been lower (since theme park revenue was keeping them afloat in the turbulent last eisner years), and comcast might have paid a much higher premium for the company that the shareholders would have had to have at least consider.

    so in short, WDW might have very well saved disney!
    You may be correct in the situation regarding the Comcast take-over, but it also could be argued that the astronomical operational and maintenance costs of running a behemoth such as WDW took a huge drain on the company and led to the state that it was in during the 80s. It was Michael Eisner who came in and transformed the studio that saved TWDC from being sold, and once the studios started bringing in money, everything fell into place with the theme parks.

    If there was never WDW these things might never have happened, since the cost of running the DLR is a lot less than the cost of running WDW.

  6. #21

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    That Disney video was amazing, and I most likely saw it when I was a whole lot younger. Imagine, if Mr. Disney hadn't died. Disney World, itself would be a different place today. Not just a place to have fun, but a place to actually live. Today, there is only a small sampling of his monorail, and his People Mover in Disney World. The transportation system that is seen in that video would have astronomical costs, and what would it cost to be a resident and live there, and work there?

    If Walt Disney hadn't been able to purchase all that land in Florida, He most likely would have looked elsewhere. He was obviously very passionate about his vision. However, after he died, the Epcot that we see today, is nothing even close to the Epcot that he talked about in that video.

    I guess asking what would today be like, if something hadn't happened in the past, is like the theme of the movie "It's A Wonderful Life". Walt Disney had a great impact on many people's lives. He is still impacting their thoughts, when they ask, "what would he do, or think, or like, or not like?

    If the Florida land had not been purchased, and Mr. Disney died before he planned something somewhere else, we might have seen some different things happening in Anaheim, California. Or would he have been content with the Disneyland that was there, and branched off into some entirely different dream of his? Lots of what if's, and speculation, but that's what people have always done when a great person dies.
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  7. #22

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaraann View Post
    That Disney video was amazing, and I most likely saw it when I was a whole lot younger .... Today, there is only a small sampling of his monorail, and his People Mover ..... The transportation system that is seen in that video would have astronomical costs, and what would it cost to be a resident and live there, and work there? ..... the Epcot that we see today, is nothing even close to the Epcot that he talked about in that video .... If the Florida land had not been purchased, and Mr. Disney died before he planned something somewhere else, we might have seen some different things happening in Anaheim, California. Or would he have been content with the Disneyland that was there, and branched off into some entirely different dream of his? Lots of what if's, and speculation, but that's what people have always done when a great person dies.

    I happen to <3 that segment with Walt Disney offering a glimpse into his idea for a Experimental Prototype City Of Tomorrow (and a cleaner version is on one of the Vault Disney DVDs) ... I guess had he not purchased land in Florida, then he would've looked someplace else (or elements of his idea would've been incorporated into everyday use from Shopping Malls, to Airports, to Resorts). Would I want to live in a mid-century modern environment where public transportation could take me wherever I needed to go? Where one could live close enough to their employed zone, then return to their modern abode without the hassles of rush hour traffic? Where modern innovations would continued to be showcased that improved our lives? ABSOLUTELY ...

    Unfortunately, we live in an imperfect world now (but one can still dream about what might have been by visiting the following website - https://sites.google.com/site/theoriginalepcot/ )


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  8. #23

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    Quote Originally Posted by darkamor View Post
    I happen to <3 that segment with Walt Disney offering a glimpse into his idea for a Experimental Prototype City Of Tomorrow (and a cleaner version is on one of the Vault Disney DVDs) ... I guess had he not purchased land in Florida, then he would've looked someplace else (or elements of his idea would've been incorporated into everyday use from Shopping Malls, to Airports, to Resorts). Would I want to live in a mid-century modern environment where public transportation could take me wherever I needed to go? Where one could live close enough to their employed zone, then return to their modern abode without the hassles of rush hour traffic? Where modern innovations would continued to be showcased that improved our lives? ABSOLUTELY ...

    Unfortunately, we live in an imperfect world now (but one can still dream about what might have been by visiting the following website - https://sites.google.com/site/theoriginalepcot/ )


    C J
    Thanks for the link. I am definitely going to check that all out.
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  9. #24

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    I heard somewhere that there was a point in time (I think the 80's) where the theme parks were the only thing keeping the company afloat, with the clunker movies coming, lost of prime time TV programing, and such. DL probably couldn't have keep the company going, and today it would be part of 6 flags or Cedar Fair..

  10. #25

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelbyH View Post
    It's kind of a false question. Opening a Disneyland in Florida was Walt's idea through and through. No he didn't make it to the opening, and his wacky vision for EPCOT was not at all what Epcot is today, but it's like asking "What would Disneyland be like if Walt hadn't decided he wanted to build a theme park?" WDW was built because Walt had the ambition to expand. I think that there are some issues with having multiple Disney resorts but I do think that both WDW and DLR have benefited from having each other.
    I agree that this question does not make sense. I think everyone would agree that WD had two (at least) qualities that were intrinsic to who he was: his appreciation for storytelling, and his ability to envision fantastic things that pushed the boundaries of conventional wisdom (if not "what was possible"). To deny his vision in Florida is to deny who he is, and thus there is no way to predict how the rest of his empire would have fared.

    But for the sake of discussion, I don't think DL would be so crowded, but I think the laws of supply and demand would have driven the price way up (especially if Anaheim had the one and only MK). It would have morphed into much more of a world destination resort, and less of a local park (which I think WD considered it as, with "Date Nights" and such).

    And there wouldn't be any cheap motels around Disneyland. Walt may have accelerated the landmark Supreme Court ruling which allowed private project eminent domain (or paid outrageous prices for the land in question) and made a bundle with South Anaheim being transformed into an even bigger resort complex.
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  11. #26

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    There's a great number of people who have never been to Disneyland, because quite frankly they prefer Disney World. If Disney World were never built, would these people be interested in visiting the park in California? Some of them might. However, many people visit Disney World, because they feel it is more than just a themepark destination. They love staying in the hotels, and doing all the other things that Disney World offers that Disneyland does not. Disneyland is in the middle of a city, and Disney World takes you away from the hustle and bustle of citylife.

    Disney World has a loyal following, and so does Disneyland. I got to wondering if Disneyland had never been built, would some of those people who are now Disney World regulars, become Disneyland regulars instead.

    I have also wondered if the hotel situation would have become different around Disneyland, if Walt Disney had never started the whole project in Florida.
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  12. #27

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    Re: What Would Disneyland Be Like Today If WDW Was Never Built?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Where did you read that?
    Why do you think he went to Florida in the first place? He hated the fact that he couldn't expand Disneyland, because he was hemmed in by all the tawdry motels & gift shops that had sprouted up around the park. If the land around Disneyland had remained an orange grove that Walt could have used, I have little doubt that he would have built Disney World there. If he had never gone to Florida (the original question) and had he been forced to restrict himself to Anaheim, I have no doubt that he would have expanded Disneyland as much as he possibly could.

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