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  1. #91

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    The point is to get traffic in, then entice them to spend. It's how Casino's in Vegas operate.
    Perhaps the park admission should be really low (like a casino), and equal for everybody, and then each attraction would cost money.
    Making some people pay a whole lot more, and others a whole lot less seems somewhat discriminatory.
    Also, I don't think the park management's focus should be on getting its guests to buy overpriced food, beverage, and souvenirs. Its focus should be on the experience, so people will want to pay to return, and tell their friends about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJS View Post
    It kind of felt like there was a little AP holder discrimination...from non AP holders...
    You're new here, so I'll remind you and others of a basic tenet we on this particular side of the debate have to say over and over again:
    It's not the AP Holder. It's the AP Program.
    AP Holders are simply buying a product that makes financial sense to them.
    We just don't think it makes financial sense for the PARK.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  2. #92

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    It does make financial sense for the park, though, sediment.


  3. #93

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinrar View Post
    But you're still basing all your calculations on the idea that disney is paying for your visits after you have gone 5 times. This is not the case. The only thing disney is actually paying for is park operation cost which is NOT 125 a person. That number could be $20 a person for all we know. If that were the case an AP holder could go to the park 20 times and the premium AP alone would still be enough to generate a profit. Sure not as much profit as the full price guest but after the year is up, the profit probably ends up being quite similar on average. But like I said, no one knows how much the park costs to run.

    But that is the magic number we need to know. How much it cost per guest to operate the park. Not the full price of a hopper because no one would go to DL as often as an AP holder does if everyone had to pay full price each visit. So the theoretical $125 a visit that disney is "losing" was never going to be theirs in any scenario. So what little profit disney may make per AP visit is still a profit that would not be there otherwise.

    As for the increase in price, they did it because they could. Its simple economics, if you can increase prices and keep a similar demand, prices will go up.


    Ok so I found a few numbers online and I don't know for sure how accurate but lets look at them.

    It costs DL about $250,000 a day to run on average
    Lets say Dl on average has 30,000 guests out of its around 80,000 capacity

    That means that as long as every guest pays at least $9 per visit, every guest is generating a profit...

    That means an Premium AP could go to DL about 60 times, without spending a cent in the park, and still make a tiny bit of profit for disney. At approximately 66 visits, the guest will start eating profits.
    Those numbers sound more like it! However, I think saying 30/80 is too low since Carsland. Give them at least 50/80 on average IMHO.

  4. #94

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    It does make financial sense for the park, though, sediment.

    The parks would make more money charging less (on average), and making each person pay that amount.
    More interestingly, DCA might have gotten its makeover a lot more quickly without the padding of AP attendance.
    If Disneyland's attendance would have dipped significantly during the past 17 years, an E-ticket-level attraction would have been built. At present, Indy is the last E-ticket-level attraction to have been built inside Disneyland. Lots of room in the ranch area and behind; autopia and subs, retool Toontown, etc. There was once a nice parking lot that could have been expanded into, "the right way."
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  5. #95

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by christianAdam View Post
    the one solution to that would be to distribute the 5 or 6 day passes like an annual pass. Same rules apply as far as needing your pic (this could also prevent theft as well as scalping)

    and I know Disney doesn't indivually pay for your ticket but I use it in reference to everytime an AP walks through the turnstiles it takes away from a potential non-AP guest being able to attend. That's why I used the example of OMDD but the same can be said for the 4th of July or New Years

    I just think we shouldn't use such a high number like $125. An overhead number would be preferable. Over head is probably $x with attendance up to 1/2; $y with attendance at 3/4 and $z with full capacity. They know their profit margin!

  6. #96

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    5 OR 6 DAY PASS? i like that idea!! THAT might actually go over well with tourists and vacationing families..but they don't get the extra benefits like parking included and only some discounts..

  7. #97

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    Four or five years ago I went on Yom Kippur, and no one was at the park. Every ride was a walk on. This last Yom Kippur the park was packed!

  8. #98

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Poisonedapples View Post
    5 OR 6 DAY PASS? i like that idea!! THAT might actually go over well with tourists and vacationing families..but they don't get the extra benefits like parking included and only some discounts..
    As a visitor I wouldn't use parking; however, it would be more expensive for a Californian or someone from AZ coming with the parking.

    I still think they should add this option, even if they keep the APs.

    ---------- Post added 10-02-2012 at 03:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by whamo View Post
    Four or five years ago I went on Yom Kippur, and no one was at the park. Every ride was a walk on. This last Yom Kippur the park was packed!
    This may be Carsland related. All attendance estimates are skewed due to Carsland IMHO.

  9. #99

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by smartlabelprint View Post
    Those numbers sound more like it! However, I think saying 30/80 is too low since Carsland. Give them at least 50/80 on average IMHO.
    Parks and resorts expenses are about $28.1 million per day (Fiscal year 2011 annual report).
    Nine parks (plus two water parks), 99.1 million visitors.
    271,500 guests per day.
    That's $103 per guest.
    Some expenses and revenue from hotels (and revenue a lot more than expenses) and cruise line, so it's not perfect.

    But expenses of $250K per day and $9 of a guest admission covering it is a bit unrealistic.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  10. #100

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?


    This may be Carsland related. All attendance estimates are skewed due to Carsland IMHO.
    that's right.. blame it on carsland.... lol

    ---------- Post added 10-02-2012 at 04:52 PM ----------

    smartlabel, just don't give them the parking option,it makes the pass more expensive to them if the parking is included. so just don't give it as an option.. a

  11. #101

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    The last two years, Yom Kippur was a Saturday. I would expect usual Saturday attendance.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  12. #102

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Parks and resorts expenses are about $28.1 million per day (Fiscal year 2011 annual report).
    Nine parks (plus two water parks), 99.1 million visitors.
    271,500 guests per day.
    That's $103 per guest.
    Some expenses and revenue from hotels (and revenue a lot more than expenses) and cruise line, so it's not perfect.

    But expenses of $250K per day and $9 of a guest admission covering it is a bit unrealistic.
    That was just the cost of Disneyland park per year divided by 365 from 07. Obviously it has gone up quite a bit and some days will cost more and some will cost less to run. Some days will have more guests to distribute costs while some will have fewer guests paying more individually to run the park.

    It was just some quick imperfect math to show that cost of running the park per guest doesn't come anywhere near the price of tickets. They have room to play around with prices as to attract as many customers as they can and still get some profit.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  13. #103

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    this should be a rumor..they make too much on APs..then what would been the point to introduce the 2 park kingdom APs for almost 1000?

  14. #104

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by smartlabelprint View Post
    APs that won't come to the park as often if the AP is cancelled or modified they can't factor in the emotional aspect of what offending the APs would be. How many would switch to another park like Knott's or Six Flags just because they were angry?
    This is the key here, I think. Disney would be foolish to think that APs would quietly and cheerfully switch to hopper tickets. Offending and angering the group that makes the most visits to the park doesn't accomplish that. I know I won't be returning to the park if the APs really do go away.

    Also, given how many other parks are around the Southern California area, and that they all offer annual tickets I can easily see former APs defecting and deciding to invest in a pass for Universal, Knotts, Sea World or some other attraction that they will be able to visit often. That decision might be based on anger but also on the value of the ticket: if they know they can go to Knotts every day for under $100 vs. going to Disneyland once for $100, and there's no Disney AP available--well, Knotts looks better because it provides entertainment for the year.

    The AP is a tradeoff for Disney. Disney might lose money on upfront admission costs, but they gain invaluable brand loyalty, repeated pass purchases year after year, merch sales, and upfront financial commitment. $300 or $600 in Disney's hand--or a binding financial contract that guarantees they will receive it--is a lot firmer than trying to guess when, how or if locals might invest in a hopper or visit the park at some point.

    Look at any annual pass, or museum membership. It works just the same way. I might pay $60 for my annual membership to Art Museum X, which offers me unlimited admission. If admission is $15/visit, I've paid for my membership in four visits. The museum loses revenue if I come back ten times over the course of the year, but they have my upfront payment and they also probably have more merchandising sales and more loyalty from me, and I'll come back and pay that $60 every year instead of just going to the museum once as a novelty attraction.

  15. #105

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    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    All I know is that I'm buying my SoCal Select pass on Thursday just in case the price goes up again and in case SoCal passes are eliminated.

    You know, it's parks like Six Flags, Cedar Fair and Universal who should suffer since their passes cost no more than a one day visit, and yet i bet they're not even considering stopping their season pass program. Remember, it was Six Flags who invented the season pass back in 1974 and they haven't gone bankrupt yet. And if they do, I bet it's not because of the season passes.
    Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion.
    Harlan Ellison

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    There should be a sticky thread called "This Day in Disney History." The company has a long history and this would be a good way to acknowledge it. Walt was born 112 years ago; that's quite a chunk of American history and culture.

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