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  1. #31

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    I found it pretty funny and ironic that the week after Al wrote that article that South Park came out with this episode. I can't help but wonder if someone on the writing team is a regular passholder? The artistic Disneyland detailing was really fantastic (though I'm sure all of the artists didn't mind possibly going on a "field trip" for the sake of accuracy ). I really liked how while the episode was centered around Cartman's abuse of the system and laziness, someone who legitimately needed to be in the GAC line was shown to say, "Hey, there are people that actually need this."

    Quote Originally Posted by BradleyC View Post
    Disney just doesn't want to go thought the trouble of redoing every ride line to fit wheelchairs...

    The only one to blame for this is Disney.
    To renovate every single attraction's queue that was not wide enough would 1) be incredibly expensive, 2) would be rather questionable in some cases regarding how much space there actually is, and 3) would be a massive project that would literally take God knows how many years to complete as Disney can't just shut all of those attractions down at the same time.

    There are also some guests that actually cannot physically handle long waits, so they'd need an accelerated wait to load time anyway.

    This is a really complex issue, and I really feel for the employees at Disney that have to come up with a way to fix the abuse issues better.

    I have a girlfriend who has to ride in a wheelchair for extensive walking periods, not because she's obese or anything that you could tell from her appearance, but because she has some nasty physical conditions in her inner working that cut out all of her energy and make it impossible for her to walk around or stand for extended periods of time. I've been close friends with her since high school, and there's actually a whole group of us from that time that meet every year for the holidays as an annual thing. We decided to shake things up and visit Disneyland together last year, but that ended up becoming a bit of a mess in the togetherness department. Originally there were to be 12 of us, and two in our party were to ride in wheelchairs. But at the last minute, the other person who would have been in a wheelchair (he was recovering from a motorcycle accident) decided not to come, so suddenly we were 11 and only 5 other people could wait with my friend. I didn't really know what else to do at that point, so we had to split into two parties and it upset a lot of people. The heavy crowding didn't make it any easier (I planned for us to go early in December for lighter crowds, but it ended up being very busy). The only attraction we all rode together was Pirates because as luck would have it we were approaching the boats around the same time, and when we asked the CMs they were really nice and got us on together. Maybe other attractions CMs would have done that, too - we didn't ask and it's not like we wanted to make things more complicated for them. Some people have said we should go again, and I've said outright that because my friend needs to wait in a separate line, the group would have to be way smaller if it was done again.

    One of the last times I was at Disneyland, I was with another girlfriend and someone we knew from (yes, high school again) saw that we were at Disneyland and wanted to meet up with us. Turns out she's one of those GAC abusers - I didn't say anything so that I could just see her process (and to be honest I didn't really find out she was an abuser until we were walking through the line). She was bragging about how she puts on an act at City Hall saying that she doesn't do well with being around a lot of people in this panicky sort of way and then gets the pass. I was astounded.

    It's so complicated. Disney doesn't want to offend anyone by accusing them of lying about having some sort of condition, they don't have the right (legally) to demand a doctor's note demanding information about their condition (there are certain laws regarding these things, even with work), space in Disneyland is limited, and Disney doesn't want to ruin guest experience by limiting how many people an accompany said GAC guest.

    I think the return time pass system would be a great idea. It doesn't necessarily address the abuse issue, but it would make it less cumbersome on the guests that actually cannot handle being stuck in a long line. I wish Disney the best, in any case, with regards to this issue.

  2. #32

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    Are there people who abuse the system, yes. Are there those for whom it is a god send and would make even going to (let alone enjoying) the park impossible? Again yes.

    In my opinion, one of the biggest clues as to whether or not a person is abusing the system is are they on a Disneyland ecv or there own? My wife and I both must use scooters not just when we go to Disneyland but even if we are going to be at a store for any period of time. These ecv are not a convenience for us, they are a necessity.

    I am not saying that I person can not start the day out walking from their hotel or car and get tried by the end of the day and need a little help, but as most regulars know, the ecv's run out early in the day especially during busy weekend and.or summer time periods.

    I guess what I am saying is dont be quick to judge and please dont lump everyone on a scooter into the abuser category... There are those of us who would give anything to be physically able to wait in a line like everyone else.....

    One last thing, to look at me, you would never know anything is wrong because I dont "look" disabled....

  3. #33

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Disney is not required by law to redesign every line for wheel chair access. The ADA requires reasonable accommodation, not equal accommodation. It would be unreasonable for them to redesign every entrance to accommodate a wheel chair when it can be done much simpler through the exit. Therefore, by entering through the exit, the wheel chair user is still accommodated and has access to the ride making Disney in compliance.
    Yes you are correct, and I should of worded that correctly. I was more of making the point about complaints to the way the current system is, as it would not be abused if they were equal. I understand it would be out of the question to redo every ride entrance at this point as it would put every ride under renovation and take up allot more space and money. As long as there is a way for wheelchairs to get on im happy. I just wish it wasn't held against the wheelchair party's because Disney tells them how to get in.

  4. #34

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    I think NextGen might actually help the situation. Right now, you could go ask for a return pass for RSR. During your two hour "wait" you could probably do half a dozen or more other DCA attractions. With NextGen, they would actually scan you before getting on another ride so they could actually prevent people from going on another ride until their "wait" for RSR has ended. This would prevent those people who just go from attraction to attraction collecting return passes if they are limited to 1 at a time.

    The fact that one of the most watched shows on TV mentioned the issue in an episode along with Al Lutz's recent article suggests that this is something that needs to be addressed. Everyone besides the abusers is affected by this from people with legitimate needs being forced to wait longer to people that can't get a FastPass because they need to limit the number of FastPasses being distributed to make room for the abusers.

  5. #35

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    To those who have posted about being fine with waiting in the standard queues in DCA in your ECVs, thank you! Unfortunately, you may not realize what a minority you are. Every day there are endless arguments in the Chamber of Commerce with Guest after Guest complaining that, "I have this pass for Disneyland and it's not WORKING over here! They made me wait like everybody else!" It becomes very obvious very quickly that many (not all) of the wheelchair/ECV Guests EXPECT to bypass lines. The Guests using GACs that send them through the accessible entrances as if they were in a wheelchair even though they aren't complain even more. It's explained when they get the pass that it won't cut down on standing or walking and that sometimes the waits are even longer...still, every day there are a huge number of people who come back to the hall/chamber to complain that they "got the wrong one! I need the one that gets me to the front of the lines!" Unfortunately, it is a huge problem and I don't know that there is an easy fix.

    Another issue not addressed in the episode which I personally see as a bigger problem is that the majority of the abusers I've come across aren't the Guests in ECVs or wheelchairs. As it has been pointed out, the park does a fair job already of having those Guests wait a similar amount of time as those in the standard queues. The real problem is the number of Guests who claim to have anxiety-related disorders. Yes, I'm sure some of them really do, but you would not BELIEVE the number of people who walk in every single day and claim they "don't do well around a lot of people" and can't wait in lines. Is there a social anxiety epidemic that I didn't hear about? Is there something in the water? Some of them put on a poorly-acted show of nervousness, others don't even pretend. They'll bounce up to the counter in their HS band t-shirt and cheerfully inform you they don't like crowds or other people and they need a pass for a party of 12. It's infuriating.

    As has been pointed out already, this abuse hurts other Guests in the standby lines AND the truly disabled Guests who really do need the assistance.
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  6. #36

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    Quote Originally Posted by RumRunner31 View Post
    To those who have posted about being fine with waiting in the standard queues in DCA in your ECVs, thank you! Unfortunately, you may not realize what a minority you are. Every day there are endless arguments in the Chamber of Commerce with Guest after Guest complaining that, "I have this pass for Disneyland and it's not WORKING over here! They made me wait like everybody else!" It becomes very obvious very quickly that many (not all) of the wheelchair/ECV Guests EXPECT to bypass lines. The Guests using GACs that send them through the accessible entrances as if they were in a wheelchair even though they aren't complain even more. It's explained when they get the pass that it won't cut down on standing or walking and that sometimes the waits are even longer...still, every day there are a huge number of people who come back to the hall/chamber to complain that they "got the wrong one! I need the one that gets me to the front of the lines!" Unfortunately, it is a huge problem and I don't know that there is an easy fix.

    Another issue not addressed in the episode which I personally see as a bigger problem is that the majority of the abusers I've come across aren't the Guests in ECVs or wheelchairs. As it has been pointed out, the park does a fair job already of having those Guests wait a similar amount of time as those in the standard queues. The real problem is the number of Guests who claim to have anxiety-related disorders. Yes, I'm sure some of them really do, but you would not BELIEVE the number of people who walk in every single day and claim they "don't do well around a lot of people" and can't wait in lines. Is there a social anxiety epidemic that I didn't hear about? Is there something in the water? Some of them put on a poorly-acted show of nervousness, others don't even pretend. They'll bounce up to the counter in their HS band t-shirt and cheerfully inform you they don't like crowds or other people and they need a pass for a party of 12. It's infuriating.

    As has been pointed out already, this abuse hurts other Guests in the standby lines AND the truly disabled Guests who really do need the assistance.
    I totally agree with you regarding the social anxiety. My sister-in-law has Aspergers and severe anxiety. Even she doesn't use the GAC because she is determined to be as "normal" as possible. If it becomes too much for her, she simply takes a break in a quiet area. Everyone can easily say they don't like crowds or can't handle waiting in lines. It has gotten to be too much. I can only hope that karma is real....

  7. #37

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    Quote Originally Posted by RumRunner31 View Post
    To those who have posted about being fine with waiting in the standard queues in DCA in your ECVs, thank you! Unfortunately, you may not realize what a minority you are. Every day there are endless arguments in the Chamber of Commerce with Guest after Guest complaining that, "I have this pass for Disneyland and it's not WORKING over here! They made me wait like everybody else!" It becomes very obvious very quickly that many (not all) of the wheelchair/ECV Guests EXPECT to bypass lines. The Guests using GACs that send them through the accessible entrances as if they were in a wheelchair even though they aren't complain even more. It's explained when they get the pass that it won't cut down on standing or walking and that sometimes the waits are even longer...still, every day there are a huge number of people who come back to the hall/chamber to complain that they "got the wrong one! I need the one that gets me to the front of the lines!" Unfortunately, it is a huge problem and I don't know that there is an easy fix.

    Another issue not addressed in the episode which I personally see as a bigger problem is that the majority of the abusers I've come across aren't the Guests in ECVs or wheelchairs. As it has been pointed out, the park does a fair job already of having those Guests wait a similar amount of time as those in the standard queues. The real problem is the number of Guests who claim to have anxiety-related disorders. Yes, I'm sure some of them really do, but you would not BELIEVE the number of people who walk in every single day and claim they "don't do well around a lot of people" and can't wait in lines. Is there a social anxiety epidemic that I didn't hear about? Is there something in the water? Some of them put on a poorly-acted show of nervousness, others don't even pretend. They'll bounce up to the counter in their HS band t-shirt and cheerfully inform you they don't like crowds or other people and they need a pass for a party of 12. It's infuriating.

    As has been pointed out already, this abuse hurts other Guests in the standby lines AND the truly disabled Guests who really do need the assistance.
    I have to agree with you on this one. Ive scene it done first hand at Space Mountain. A lady and her family had a GAC pass, and felt they were entailed to skip the whole wheel chair line. They started flipping out on the poor Cast Member, claiming they have anxiety and can't wait in crowded areas. The Cast Member explained that they have to wait in the wheelchair line and that the accessible shuttle only leaves every 7 mins once it arrives back at the gate. They caused a huge scene about it, swearing and flipping out. For someone who has anxiety they sure know how to draw a large crowd around them. I feel if they have a wheelchair then they shouldn't need a GAC pass (as the system currently is). But if there claiming they need a GAC pass without a wheel chair, there should be some formal documentation needed showing it is medically diagnosed, as I see the system being abused allot with just a GAC pass.

  8. #38

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    Quote Originally Posted by BradleyC View Post
    there should be some formal documentation needed showing it is medically diagnosed, as I see the system being abused allot with just a GAC pass.
    Unfortunately this could lead to someone who really needs the pass to go without one if they fail to bring documentation. I would rather let the handful of "fakers" get by then to make someone who needs it go without.
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  9. #39

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Unfortunately this could lead to someone who really needs the pass to go without one if they fail to bring documentation. I would rather let the handful of "fakers" get by then to make someone who needs it go without.
    The problem is it is no longer a handful. Al Lutz's article reported that of the 20,000 people that ride RSR each day, 5,000 are using a GAC.

  10. #40

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    The problem is it is no longer a handful. Al Lutz's article reported that of the 20,000 people that ride RSR each day, 5,000 are using a GAC.
    That's insane, it sounds like alot of the users are claiming anxiety issues, so we should probably start implementing a program in the schools to fix that.

    that being said, I have a few odd social anxieties myself, i used to start hyperventilating while waitng to get off the school bus because I didn't know what order i should unload, "should I wait and go after that guy?," I also tend to get really sick in groups of people. But I wouldn't use that to get ahead.
    Oddly enough, I'm also allergic to the sun (seattlite) I break out in crazy, painful rashes and get really sick in the heat. Still, not gonna use it.
    Last edited by Sunshine711; 10-13-2012 at 05:56 PM.

  11. #41

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    I completely agree that the GAC system is a great one for those that actually need it and with having a mom that just had 2 knee replacement surgeries in the past 2 years, it has been really nice to see her enjoy the park without worrying about hurting her knee. I am curious however as to what your opinions are on how the "return passes" would work. In theory it sounds like a great system, but how would Disney implement it with so many people using it and still running Fastpass as well? It seems like we would have to add a third line in some cases and with that, it would not diminish any wait time. Also it has been shown that attractions that do have Fastpasses increase their normal stand by wait time dramatically compared to those that do not have them, so I cannot even imagine adding another factor to that. Maybe I am just not catching something, but I would really be interested to see what every one's ideas would be for a system like the return passes.
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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    The problem is it is no longer a handful. Al Lutz's article reported that of the 20,000 people that ride RSR each day, 5,000 are using a GAC.
    Even if his numbers aren't a bit embellished to make his point, I would hate to see someone who needs it be excluded by them trying to make it harder to cheat.
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  13. #43

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    Once again, I think there is a need to point out that not all ailments can be seen. I have a slightly chubby friend who has Fibromyalgia. She is also allergic to so many things, like certain common scents and all corn products, on top of asthma. So sometimes she walks, sometimes she gets an ECV depending on how bad her pain is that day. She also has the GAC because if someone's fragrance in their hair, or body spray, or deodorant, or anything else sets off her asthma, she needs to be able to clear out quickly. So if you see her on an ECV, all you would see is a slightly chubby chick. Not her asthma, many allergies, or the constant fibro pain. Would you judge her and find her to be an abuser because the scooter is rented there? How about the days she walks? I think it is easier to jump to an abuse conclusion then anything else. I am not saying there aren't abusers (and I have seen the groups that sport a different member in the wheel chair at different rides) but frankly the assistance the GAC offers to those in need outweighs that in my mind. Just my two cents
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  14. #44

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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    Who doesn't <3 the quality lampooning from Matt & Trey (SOUTH PARK) ...

    FACT: I've had to use a cane for the last 5 years and not once have I ever requested a special use pass (ECV) even when Cast Members at the Entrance suggested that I obtain one out of courtesy (I'm perfectly fine using "single rider" when I don't feel like standing in a long queue - but for the most part? I <3 interactive queue lines (I wish DCA & DISNEYLAND had more interactive queue lines) ...

    I'm not going to lol @ those who truly need to wheelchair, or an electric cart to get around a theme park (but I am going to role my eyes @ those who obviously don't require these things & are abusing their use within a theme park); yet how would Disneyland crack down upon this? Ask those who have a handicap placard (which I do have, by the way) for their vehicles to show it @ Guest Services before being allowed to obtain a special use pass (ECV)?

    C J

    ---------- Post added 10-17-2012 at 11:08 AM ----------

    Who doesn't <3 the quality lampooning from Matt & Trey (SOUTH PARK) ...

    FACT: I've had to use a cane for the last 5 years and not once have I ever requested a special use pass (ECV) even when Cast Members at the Entrance suggested that I obtain one out of courtesy (I'm perfectly fine using "single rider" when I don't feel like standing in a long queue - but for the most part? I <3 interactive queue lines (I wish DCA & DISNEYLAND had more interactive queue lines) ...

    I'm not going to lol @ those who truly need to wheelchair, or an electric cart to get around a theme park (but I am going to role my eyes @ those who obviously don't require these things & are abusing their use within a theme park); yet how would Disneyland crack down upon this? Ask those who have a handicap placard (which I do have, by the way) for their vehicles to show it @ Guest Services before being allowed to obtain a special use pass (ECV)?

    C J


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    Re: Use of ECVs at Disneyland parodied on this week's episode of South Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly right. If the increasing number of eyewitness accounts on Disney fan forums is any evidence, the problem of GAC abuse is growing by the month. It's going to reach a tipping point sooner than later.

    There's an increasing sense of injustice to this issue that transcends other Moronic Guest Games like line cutting and photo bombing: GAC con artists prey on the Company's policy of fairness to guests who truly need assistance. Their self-centered greed not only threatens the GAC policy, but as a byproduct inflames the public's already negative view that handicapped people get unfair special treatment.
    I think the simplest solution to the abuse of the GAC policy would be that only guests with their own personal wheelchair or other such device would be provided with a GAC and allowed front of line access. Anyone using a Disney provided device would not.
    In essence, those with serious enough issues that need such devices would already have one.

    Yes, there are those occasions where someone who is not actually handicapped, but is not capable of standing in excessively long lines, could need a wheelchair. However, that doesn't mean that they would need front of line access.

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