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  1. #61

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Ah. The "You Don't Need Your Seat Belt" defense. Perfect.
    I don't always agree with you, but when I do...

  2. #62

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Here's another reason you really shouldn't ignore someone who is screaming that their seat belt isn't working or engaging. Ever hear about this tragedy, at Six Flags Great Adventure? This girl died.

    But as the safety restraints came down on the other riders, Rick and Karen knew something was wrong--dead wrong--and a day of enjoyment and expectation was replaced by tragedy. Karen's safety bar snapped shut behind her, instead of in front, as required. Lightnin' Loops computer sensors indicated that all passengers were securely buckled in--just as Rick and Karen screamed to the operators to halt the ride.
    Popular Mechanics - Google Books

  3. #63

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    The guest's EXPECTATIONS of the CM's roles and responsibilities based on their own guesses are not 'facts'.

    Your positioning of this as 'the facts were stated in the original post' is pretty much the poster child of the adage of 'There are two sides to every story...'

  4. #64

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalSkye View Post
    A cast member would NEVER send a bobsled in without all passengers having their seatbelt on. NEVER.
    I gotta jump in here at this point (still reading @ post # 34)...
    In the 80s-2000s, there were many many times that sleds were sent to the lift and completed the circut with no belt. The belt was probably visually inspected, but I can tell you that there were times the belt wasn't connected. As of 2012, I am going to assume this cannot happen anymore, but I had to speak up about the concept of "NEVER".
    ~Jay

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  5. #65

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    The guest's EXPECTATIONS of the CM's roles and responsibilities based on their own guesses are not 'facts'.

    Your positioning of this as 'the facts were stated in the original post' is pretty much the poster child of the adage of 'There are two sides to every story...'
    I wasn't referring to what their actual roles were. Those are irrelevant in this situation. What matters is how the rider perceived those roles which is a fact that was stated in the original post. It is also a fact that was stated in the original post that the workers did nothing to correct the rider's misconception and left this girl with a feeling that the ride was going to take off without her securely strapped in. That is a customer service failure that should never have been allowed to happen.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  6. #66

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    The guest's EXPECTATIONS of the CM's roles and responsibilities based on their own guesses are not 'facts'.

    Your positioning of this as 'the facts were stated in the original post' is pretty much the poster child of the adage of 'There are two sides to every story...'
    Excellent points! Kudos!

  7. #67

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    CMs have a tough job but their first concern as many have said should always be the guest. If the CMs loading and unloading do not have the time to reassure gueststhen another CM should be posted at the ride to reassure guests so that no one has a panic attack or worse yet a health situation because of their panic. Never dismiss someone who is clearly trying to follow the rules. Malina I am sorry thAt this happened to you and you should not be reprimanded here for trying to make sure you were seat belted in properly.

  8. #68

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I wasn't referring to what their actual roles were. Those are irrelevant in this situation. What matters is how the rider perceived those roles which is a fact that was stated in the original post. It is also a fact that was stated in the original post that the workers did nothing to correct the rider's misconception and left this girl with a feeling that the ride was going to take off without her securely strapped in
    No, again, you have HER version of the story.. and how she describes her actions and that of the CMs. These are not facts. What she perceived is not necessarily what happened. She never talked to the CMs afterwards to know what they knew or did not, etc.

    The only 'fact' we have is that she was scared and presumably upset over it all. But like most situations, if you only take one side of it, and don't actually talk to the other side afterwards to know what THEY knew... you rarely have a valid picture of the situation.

    The calls to complain to city hall, firing, etc are all based on PRESUMED understanding of what they are supposed to be doing, what they were doing, and what they knew, and what risks or not they allowed to happen.

    As someone who is supposed to be trained in law.. I would expect better. But sounds a lot like a lawyer who is more interested in winning cases instead of actual facts. Just throw it out there and let them fight it 'in court'
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  9. #69

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Imagine if you're in the process of getting into a bobsled and then the person in the bobsled in front of you starts panicking about her seat belt. Do you want the people responsible for your safety to suddenly go help the person that isn't in any real danger? There is a person that is responsible for such a situation and by the OP's own account, the issue was resolved when they got to that last station before dispatch. So maybe the CMs not rushing to calm a worried guest might seem rude to some, but to me it shows they're watching out for everyone else.

    And please, please stop comparing this to incidents where people have died. It is extremely disrespectful. In all the incidents brought up someone seriously screwed up. In this case, all issues (besides some hurt feeling over the perception of being ignored) were resolved before the ride started.

  10. #70

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    No, again, you have HER version of the story.. and how she describes her actions and that of the CMs. These are not facts. What she perceived is not necessarily what happened. She never talked to the CMs afterwards to know what they knew or did not, etc.

    The only 'fact' we have is that she was scared and presumably upset over it all. But like most situations, if you only take one side of it, and don't actually talk to the other side afterwards to know what THEY knew... you rarely have a valid picture of the situation.

    The calls to complain to city hall, firing, etc are all based on PRESUMED understanding of what they are supposed to be doing, what they were doing, and what they knew, and what risks or not they allowed to happen.

    As someone who is supposed to be trained in law.. I would expect better. But sounds a lot like a lawyer who is more interested in winning cases instead of actual facts. Just throw it out there and let them fight it 'in court'
    I had a similar reply ready, but Flynn beat me to it...so simply...I second that^

  11. #71

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    No, again, you have HER version of the story.. and how she describes her actions and that of the CMs. These are not facts. What she perceived is not necessarily what happened. She never talked to the CMs afterwards to know what they knew or did not, etc.

    The only 'fact' we have is that she was scared and presumably upset over it all. But like most situations, if you only take one side of it, and don't actually talk to the other side afterwards to know what THEY knew... you rarely have a valid picture of the situation.

    The calls to complain to city hall, firing, etc are all based on PRESUMED understanding of what they are supposed to be doing, what they were doing, and what they knew, and what risks or not they allowed to happen.

    As someone who is supposed to be trained in law.. I would expect better. But sounds a lot like a lawyer who is more interested in winning cases instead of actual facts. Just throw it out there and let them fight it 'in court'
    I'm not sure what's open to debate with "my version" of the story:

    a. The seat belt wasn't working right. I'd ridden on the Matterhorn before so I did know how to operate them.
    b. The CMs did not respond verbally or physically when they were informed several times of a problem.

    As I mentioned, I rode with a friend, so I do have a witness. She was also yelling to the CMs for help because she heard me, but since she was already belted in, she was probably less panicked than I was. Her perception of the incident was just as mine was; ie, the CMs ignored me.

    You don't have to leave your post to verbally reassure someone that the situation will be handled. If your job is to look over the belts with a flashlight, at that moment you ARE interacting with them and you have room to say something. Also, if the sleds are being loaded so very quickly that there is no room at all to troubleshoot, perhaps that is an issue in itself.

    I am not comparing the incident to the LL one, except to point out that when cast members and ride operators ignore guests that are having difficulties, there can be serious consequences for the riders. Obviously that didn't happen this time. Thank God for that. What about the next time, when the CMs don't give the guest the benefit of the doubt and someone gets hurt?

  12. #72

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    This is more an issue of hurt feelings than safety.

    I would rather have CMs focus on their position. Accidents can occur suddenly, even in the split second it takes for someone to turn away and tell you that you'll be OK. You can argue that maybe they could add another CM to address guest concerns and you'd be entitled to that opinion.

  13. #73

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    The issue here is not the safety of the attraction. Nor is it an issue of "hurt feelngs."
    The issue here is the guest's anxiety and how the park addressed it or failed to address it.
    "Your job is to create happiness."

  14. #74

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    No, again, you have HER version of the story.. and how she describes her actions and that of the CMs. These are not facts. What she perceived is not necessarily what happened. She never talked to the CMs afterwards to know what they knew or did not, etc.
    She has a witness that can corroborate her facts. I have yet to see any posts that say that there is no way that the worker would not have told her that the seat belt situation will be resolved at the next station. That is a pretty strong case that her concerns were pretty much ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    The only 'fact' we have is that she was scared and presumably upset over it all.
    We also have the fact that there was a witness to the lack of performance of the Disney worker. We also don't have any facts that say the workers did actually perform their job and reassure that rider that the seat belt situation would be taken care of.

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    As someone who is supposed to be trained in law.. I would expect better. But sounds a lot like a lawyer who is more interested in winning cases instead of actual facts. Just throw it out there and let them fight it 'in court'
    Since I am trained in the field of law, I know that a plaintiff's testimony with the supporting testimony of a second witness is much more reliable than no evidence presented on the side of the defendant.

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    Imagine if you're in the process of getting into a bobsled and then the person in the bobsled in front of you starts panicking about her seat belt. Do you want the people responsible for your safety to suddenly go help the person that isn't in any real danger?
    No, but I would want them to give her a verbal assurance. There is no need to go rushing over there.

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    And please, please stop comparing this to incidents where people have died. It is extremely disrespectful.
    Not really. If this rider had panicked enough to jump out of the sled as it was moving, it could have been just as fatal as the other incidents where people died.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  15. #75

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    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    I've been on the ride before and after rehab and I've never had a problem with the belt before, though. I'm good about sitting down, grabbing the belt and getting set. This one was honestly jammed.

    My concern is really that a) the belt was jammed; b) the CMs did not respond when my friend and I both told them that the belt seemed to be jammed; c) we went PAST the first seat belt check with the flashlights and I did not have my belt on; the belt was still jammed, and the CMs had still not responded or even said "look, the belt will un-jam in a minute" or offered assistance.
    Sorry to hear about your experience. Jammed seat belts are bad, have had it happen to me on certain rides, but the worst part is the attitude of CMs, making an inconvenience a nightmare scneario. Very rude. Report them to City Hall.

    ---------- Post added 10-09-2012 at 12:43 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    I don't really see what any CM did wrong here.
    I've worked in jobs where you have a lot of contact with people . . . you always *respond* when somebody asks you a question, and double that for when you need help. Not talking to customers that are screaming for help is repugnant, and something that should get somebody written up, it not fired.

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