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  1. #61

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    [QUOTE=techskip;Those standards were again lowered around 2005 when a new attendance system was implemented and individuals were fired in droves. [/QUOTE]

    This is just flat out incorrect. There was no new attendance system implemented. What happened was the attendance system in place for DECADES was finally enforced.

    I think most people in the real world would be SHOCKED to see how lenient the attendance policy for DLR truly is.

    Global

  2. #62

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    .....................................Sure you can complain about the individuals, but it is the overall decision making system that led to this.
    Agree 100%

    I do not blame the Cast Members, I blame Management. I blame the training.
    There are many incredible Cast Members, sadly it is the bad apples that ruin it for the bunch, as it common in every industry.

    That being said, the standards at the Park have declined across all avenues while the prices continue to rise.
    Frankly in this day and age irregardless of pay, there is no reason why the Cast Members should not have to follow the rules. Congregating in groups and discussing last nights parties infront of Guests, should not be tolerated. Yelling at Guests should not be tolerated. Disrespecting Guests should not be tolerated.

    Customer service oriented jobs are not for everyone. You know the pay is low, you know you need to interact with the public. In this day and age with record unemployment, there is no reason why people who do not want to be working at DLR should be working there. This is the real world, Jobs are tough to come by, people need to be happy to be working. Disney is still paying above minimum wage, no one is picking berries in a field here for 5 dollars a hour. The talk of last nights partying in front of customers can wait until break time or after hours. If that is too difficult of a concept for some to comprehend, then clearly this Job is not for them, and finding a job and staying employed will obviously be a life long difficulty. Having said that, it is Managements responsibility to educate and enforce the rules.

    Does any of what I am saying have anything to do with.

    A) Suggesting Cast Members should be robots and not laugh and interact with guests? No of course not, That is part of the role.

    B) Blaming all Cast Members? No, there are some absolutely incredible Cast Members.

  3. #63

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Funny... this thread looks almost identical to another post from CAspace almost 2.5 years ago..
    The only thing "funny" is that 2.5 years later Disney's customer service continues to decline while Disney's prices continue to rise. Funny? Definitely. Disney is laughing all the way to the bank.

    (Oh, and memo to Disney employees... the traditional Christmas Party at Disneyland is still canceled.)
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  4. #64

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
    It's so obvious that you are so perfect in everything you do that it is a foreign concept to you that some people don't act like robots while on a job and even others don't let their vacation be ruined or consider "the show" ruined by two CMs having a casual conversation that is not unprofessional and has no curse words in it. Oh well, no amount typing you do will change the simple fact that not everyone agrees with your overly ridged opinion on how CMs should conduct themselves, so like I said, moving on. You can't I am sure...but I can.
    I guess I just have a strong work ethic. I believe if I am paid to do a job, I should do it. Standing around and talking instead of working when it is not break time is stealing from the company.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  5. #65

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I guess I just have a strong work ethic. I believe if I am paid to do a job, I should do it. Standing around and talking instead of working when it is not break time is stealing from the company.
    That's why you have a well-paying white collar job instead of working at DL. Like Tech said, DL gets the workers it's willing to pay for.

    ---------- Post added 10-09-2012 at 09:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    sort of a strange paradox. Disney has substantially lowered the various requirements and standards to get a job there. Those decisions expanded their potential labor pool. Then Disney made the decision to pay barely above Knott's, and to cap said pay so as to encourage a higher turnover. Those decisions ruled out the higher ends of the labor pool.
    This! Also, I expect once union dues are taken out, the pay differential from Knott's also disappears, which means you're getting Knott's quality employees at DL prices. Think about that next time your AP's up for renewal.
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  6. #66

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by Global View Post
    This is just flat out incorrect. There was no new attendance system implemented. What happened was the attendance system in place for DECADES was finally enforced.

    I think most people in the real world would be SHOCKED to see how lenient the attendance policy for DLR truly is.

    Global
    Starting in 2004 the CDS clock in system was implemented at the Disneyland resort. It had "problems" and initially was not used as the main clock system. Over time it was adopted regardless of those issues. It had a habit of clocking people in late for starting a shift, late for leaving a shift, didn't always record shift changes. Feel free to ask the CM's who were there 2004-2006 they can relate the various issues of CDS. Point is it was inaccurate and getting those errors off of an attendance record was a nightmare.

    At the same time Disney decided to implement a new attendance program known as Presenteeism. The "points and penalties" for being late or absent were completely revamped.

    Call Personal which was previously 3 points for up to 3 days became 3 points per day
    Call Transportation which was previously 3 points for up to 3 days became 3 points per day
    Call Sick remained 3 points for up to 3 days
    being late, now clocked by CDS, was 1.5 points irrespective of how late the individual was.
    in addition CM's were required to clock in at Harbor Point, and at their respective location. They were required to clock in from breaks and lunches... and CDS didn't take into account that individuals were in rotation and it took time to send them to breaks or lunches. CM's could be docked for being late coming back from breaks or lunches as well (there was a lawsuit in regards to this).

    The points that determined a penalty did not change per say. What did change was the penalty itself.

    The original penalty regardless of how long you'd been with company was; Verbal, Written, 3 day suspension, 5 day suspension, termination. The CM was not allowed to be on property during the suspension and the suspension was without pay so the CM was reminded of why they were suspended.

    The new scale was as follows
    For individuals under 3 years of service the penalties were; Verbal, Written, 1 day suspension, termination
    For individuals over 3 years of service the penalties were; Verbal, Written, 1 day suspension, 1 day suspension, termination

    You will notice there is no 2nd suspension for individuals under 3 years of service. Disney did not "reset" the penalties when this was put in place. For anyone under 3 years of service who had already had 1 suspension, being late automatically meant they were fired... even if CDS was incorrect. Granted they never should have gotten to that level, but the rules were changed halfway through the game. Additionally Disney implemented the "working suspension" which was not voluntary. It basically said "you're suspended but you have to work because we lack the staffing for you to be absent". You were paid for your work, but it went on your record as a suspension, no leniency regardless of the fact that this was helping the company. There is/was a separate lawsuit in regards to this.

    In addition to all of these changes, Disney policy was to terminate the CM prior to starting a shift. So Disney would terminate a CM, while having other CM's on a working suspension at the same location due to understaffing.

    I was actually there when all of this was taking place. There was a separate issue due to a bad contract from Unite 50. The end result was long hours, lots of understaffing, and lots of experience walking out the door. If you'd like to refute this, or discuss it further, please PM me for details.



    EDIT... forgot to add a specific issue with Presenteeism
    Prior to Presenteeism a CM could only be penalized for one attendance infraction at a time. If they were "marked" for a Verbal, and went over points again prior to a manager giving them their Verbal they were not given a Verbal and a Written. After Presenteeism there was a policy of "robo-signing". Where an individual could be penalized for multiple penalties at once. Being late twice could get an individual a Verbal and a Written. This was a lawsuit that CM's won, and to my knowledge those who had this happen were re-instated.
    Last edited by techskip; 10-09-2012 at 10:27 AM.
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  7. #67

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I was actually there when all of this was taking place. There was a separate issue due to a bad contract from Unite 50. The end result was long hours, lots of understaffing, and lots of experience walking out the door. If you'd like to refute this, or discuss it further, please PM me for details.
    I admit...I know nothing about Disney staffing and such but your whole post made my head spin. That process seems so complicated.

    Also, why would Disney want a process that creates a very large revolving door? From my work experience, I know it takes time and money to train new employees so having employees stay long is always beneficial. I just don't get that.

    Again, I could just be missing something.

  8. #68

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by clara View Post
    I admit...I know nothing about Disney staffing and such but your whole post made my head spin. That process seems so complicated.

    Also, why would Disney want a process that creates a very large revolving door? From my work experience, I know it takes time and money to train new employees so having employees stay long is always beneficial. I just don't get that.

    Again, I could just be missing something.
    A lot of CM's referred to it as a "house cleaning". Prior to Presenteeism Management wasn't "timely" about letting a CM know when they'd abused the system. If a location was short staffed a Lead might not mark a CM late if they were willing to "shift change" to a later off time. This was extremely effective in keeping the locations fully staffed. After the implementation of Presenteeism the Lead didn't have that discretion. In fact many chose to simply take the day off, or to take their sweet time if they knew the 1.5 was being docked regardless of when they showed up.

    As to the revolving door. The older CM's who were grandfathered in had a lot more vacation and sick time then the new ones walking through the door. They also had better benefits. Disney caps the pay so after a few years your raise is just the inflation adjustment. (Attractions as an example capped at $10/hr back in 2005. I came back to company after being in the service. on paper it looked like I'd been there 8 years and I was making about $11.50 an hour). They actually encourage a higher turnover so as to keep the labor cost down.

    What they didn't expect, was that new hires coming in would be disgusted with the low pay, bad clocking system, and bad contract... and that they would leave just as quickly as they walked in. The problem started in Foods, because a LOT of people left after their contract was announced. Casting sent roughly 50% of all applicants to Foods, which meant they weren't filling the open positions in other departments like Attractions. Once Presenteeism went into effect there was a mass exodus from all departments. This was also during the 50th anniversary when the park was full of Guests. The end result was mandatory Overtime, long hours to say the least.
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  9. #69

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    It use to very hard to get a job at Disneyland.
    Last edited by doppio; 10-09-2012 at 03:49 PM.


  10. #70

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    I suppose ultimately, looking at the reactions here, it seems that there are still LOTS of great CMs that give great Disney style service (Friendly, professional, fitting for the happiest place on earth). There are also a few times when we encounter CMs that act like underpaid grumpy or rude employees that don't bother doing their best for "show." Lots of people offered reasons both employee based and management based.

    For me I don't like the way the sides are chosen. I don't think the opposite of rude, disrespectful, chatting CMs is robots that are happy 24/7. It's a false alternative. I don't expect above and beyond all the time, I know these people aren't trained for that, nor are they compensated for that, but I DO expect a modicum of good service and professionalism. I'm thrilled to see CMs laughing and having a good time at work, but some good times (making fun of guests, or having such a great time they are not noticing when someone needs service) are out of bounds.

    I think it's amazing, given the circumstances and hiring, that we get the great service we do most of the time.

  11. #71

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate Lover 68 View Post
    I don't expect above and beyond all the time, I know these people aren't trained for that, nor are they compensated for that
    It's unfortunate (and I am not picking on your specifically) because many years ago this wasn't an expectation, it was a standard. Disney made their respective "name" in "above and beyond" customer service. There was a time, for many years, when it was very hard to get a job at Disneyland because they offered decent pay and benefits. As I mentioned a majority of that started to change in 84, and has continued to decline over the years. Today going above and beyond is a stunning show stopper... back then it was part of the magic of walking through the front gate!
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  12. #72

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by cruise View Post
    Totally, work should suck. If we can figure out a way to make CM jobs less enjoyable, maybe the quality of service will improve.
    The beatings will continue until Morale improves!

    ---------- Post added 10-09-2012 at 05:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I guess I just have a strong work ethic. I believe if I am paid to do a job, I should do it. Standing around and talking instead of working when it is not break time is stealing from the company.
    Talking to a co-worker while on the clock = stealing? Disneyland is not a late 1800's sweatshop. It is very possible to do your job (and do it well) and talk with your co-workers.

  13. #73

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    It's unfortunate (and I am not picking on your specifically) because many years ago this wasn't an expectation, it was a standard. Disney made their respective "name" in "above and beyond" customer service. There was a time, for many years, when it was very hard to get a job at Disneyland because they offered decent pay and benefits. As I mentioned a majority of that started to change in 84, and has continued to decline over the years. Today going above and beyond is a stunning show stopper... back then it was part of the magic of walking through the front gate!
    No, I know that this standard once was the norm, but it isn't any more. It isn't in most places we go. I know Disney was special in this regard, I do remember this, and it's really cool that in spite of the apparent loss of this standard in training that the CMs often manage to rise to this standard anyway.

  14. #74

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by PinBrian View Post
    Talking to a co-worker while on the clock = stealing? Disneyland is not a late 1800's sweatshop. It is very possible to do your job (and do it well) and talk with your co-workers.
    I said standing around and talking instead of working is stealing, not talking while working. There is a big difference.
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  15. #75

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I said standing around and talking instead of working is stealing, not talking while working. There is a big difference.
    Standing around and talking all day instead of working might be considered stealing (and customer service employees, in my experience, would not get away with this). "Standing around" and talking for ten seconds after you just helped ten thousand customers, and are about to help ten thousand more, but there's a ten second lull, is not stealing.
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