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  1. #76

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by caspace View Post
    frankly in this day and age irregardless of pay, there is no reason why the cast members should not have to follow the rules. Congregating in groups and discussing last nights parties infront of guests, should not be tolerated. Yelling at guests should not be tolerated. Disrespecting guests should not be tolerated.

    customer service oriented jobs are not for everyone. You know the pay is low, you know you need to interact with the public. In this day and age with record unemployment, there is no reason why people who do not want to be working at dlr should be working there. This is the real world, jobs are tough to come by, people need to be happy to be working. Disney is still paying above minimum wage, no one is picking berries in a field here for 5 dollars a hour. The talk of last nights partying in front of customers can wait until break time or after hours. if that is too difficult of a concept for some to comprehend, then clearly this job is not for them, and finding a job and staying employed will obviously be a life long difficulty. Having said that, it is managements responsibility to educate and enforce the rules.

    does any of what i am saying have anything to do with.

    A) suggesting cast members should be robots and not laugh and interact with guests? No of course not, that is part of the role.

    B) blaming all cast members? No, there are some absolutely incredible cast members.
    ita 100%

    ---------- Post added 10-10-2012 at 12:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    i guess i just have a strong work ethic. I believe if i am paid to do a job, i should do it. Standing around and talking instead of working when it is not break time is stealing from the company.

    ita 100%
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  2. #77

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I said standing around and talking instead of working is stealing, not talking while working. There is a big difference.
    Yup, the question is whether it's happening at the expense of the job or the customers the person is supposed to be serving. If a CM is chatting INSTEAD of helping a customer that requires their assistance or fulfilling their job duties, that's the problem.

  3. #78

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Glad to see some sensible posts in this thread. I was starting to loose hope.

    No one is asking CMs to be robots. This is plain stupid, and I think it is just a reaction to other posts as some sort of defense.

    Look, if you are paid to do a job, just do it. However, if you don't like to provide respect to others, cannot follow the rules, and/or cannot seperate your life from your work life, there is great news! You don't have to. In this free counrty of ours, you can quit your job.

    Ultimately, I blame Disney for not enforcing rules. There are so many ways to properly do it that do not cost much money. I'll say it again, if Disney has CS on par with Walmart, they will loose entertainment dollars left and right. They had better fix this soon.

    Aside from Disney being at fault, I am also at fault. I keep hoping for an up-tick in CS over the past several years. If I had voted properly w/ my entertainment dollars, and if others had also done this, they may have gotten the message faster than a city hall complaint.

    ---------- Post added 10-10-2012 at 01:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    If a CM is chatting INSTEAD of helping a customer that requires their assistance or fulfilling their job duties, that's the problem.
    I assumed this was the case when he posted it. I am assuming it still is the case. No one wants to pay hundreds of dollars to then be ignored and/or disrespected. In most of the scenarios posted on other pages of this thread, what was being described was stealing from the company.
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  4. #79

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by animagusurreal View Post
    Standing around and talking all day instead of working might be considered stealing (and customer service employees, in my experience, would not get away with this). "Standing around" and talking for ten seconds after you just helped ten thousand customers, and are about to help ten thousand more, but there's a ten second lull, is not stealing.
    If there is still work to be done and you are standing around talking instead of doing it, even for 10 seconds that is 10 seconds of company time you are using. Workers aren't robots, they are workers. They get breaks where they can talk it up all they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    Yup, the question is whether it's happening at the expense of the job or the customers the person is supposed to be serving. If a CM is chatting INSTEAD of helping a customer that requires their assistance or fulfilling their job duties, that's the problem.
    Exactly. If a worker is supposed to be doing crowd control and is instead chatting it up with his buddy how much attention could he be giving to the crowd of people that he is supposed to be directing?
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  5. #80

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    So everyone that is saying how CM are stealing by talking on stage and having a moment of levity in busy environment, are you completly innocent from this at your job?

    Everyone is first in line to complain about bad CM activity's but hardly anyone will go to guest relations to commend someone on doing there job.

    I admit some CM attitudes are declining but so are Guest's. There are rude guests that go off on CM, and those CM feel the need to express there anger or what have to the only other people around that they are able to talk too.

  6. #81

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Exactly. If a worker is supposed to be doing crowd control and is instead chatting it up with his buddy how much attention could he be giving to the crowd of people that he is supposed to be directing?
    I'm sorry but in the 9 years I've been going to the parks on a regular basis, I have never seen what I have bolded above, ever. Now, it may be because I'm not out right looking for the rotten apple in the bunch but regardless, I've never seen it.

    What I have seen is CM's getting yelled at in their face and remaining calm and always curteous, even though I know inside they are seething. Usually if I can, and I'm not just passing by, I will give them a pat on the back.

    However, every CM I interact with I have always treated with respect. There was one time when I did disagree with a CM about how to use the AP as a discount and it turned out she was wrong but I certainly did not make her feel bad about it. For all I knew, it was her second day on the job.

    Or maybe I just don't go to Dland to sift out every wrong thing that the CM's are doing. Who knows?

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    I've never worked for Disney so I'm a little perplexed by something. The starting wages are said to be low and capped, but isn't there the opportunity for promotion to higher positions such as a "lead" or other supervisor/management style jobs that would lead to better wages? Usually that's the carrot that corporations use to motivate the new, low-waged employees to work hard with the hope of moving up the ladder. I don't think Disney would hire many "outsiders" into park management positions so I'm assuming most of them were internal promotions originating from bottom-of-the-ladder CMs. Shouldn't that be motivation to be ship-shape while on the job?

  8. #83

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald the Rabbitt View Post
    So everyone that is saying how CM are stealing by talking on stage and having a moment of levity in busy environment, are you completly innocent from this at your job?
    It is stealing from the company if they are talking when they are supposed to be working. In other words, if they are supposed to be performing a job duty and are not performing that job duty but are still being paid as though they were doing that task, it is stealing from the company.

    As far as having moments of talking instead of working at my job, my career is completely different. I am not an hourly employee out in front of the public all day. That said I do have deliverables that I have to perform by certain deadlines. If I screw around, I end up making up whatever time by either staying later or taking work home with me. It means that I have to miss out on something else later because I am doing the work that should have been done ahead of time. As such, it is rare that this happens. I bet none of the hourly staff at Disneyland offer to stay later to make up the extra time that they spent chatting it up with a buddy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald the Rabbitt View Post
    Everyone is first in line to complain about bad CM activity's but hardly anyone will go to guest relations to commend someone on doing there job.
    I have gone on numerous occasions to make comments at City Hall when I have had service that was above and beyond. I would actually do it more often if it wasn’t such a process to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by clara View Post
    I'm sorry but in the 9 years I've been going to the parks on a regular basis, I have never seen what I have bolded above, ever. Now, it may be because I'm not out right looking for the rotten apple in the bunch but regardless, I've never seen it.
    Regardless whether you have seen it or not, it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen. While you haven’t seen it, does that mean that it is ok to stand around talking when they should be working?
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  9. #84

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    Regardless whether you have seen it or not, it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen. While you haven’t seen it, does that mean that it is ok to stand around talking when they should be working?
    In both regards, I will agree with you. It does not mean that it possibly happens and it is not right to stand around talking when they should be working, directing guests, etc. I never implied that it doesn't happen. I simply said I've never seen it, from my own experiences in the parks.

    I also did not imply that it is ok to stand around talking when they should be working...I've just never witnessed CM's standing around talking instead of attending to guests, or ignoring them. If this is the case, CM's standing around talking instead of attending to guests, or ignoring them, then yes, discipline should be set upon. Just like in any other work place.

  10. #85

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    This is another thread with some driven opinions, ergo I'm hesitant to say anything into this powder keg but yes, I've seen CMs talking to each other to the point that guests were ignored. I don't think too many here take issue with CMs talking to each other and enjoying their job but when you forget your work ethic you tell everyone why you'll be working in customer service for a long time and griping about it all the way.

    When I worked in law enforcement we had frequent complaints read during briefing about officers who would stick around in a group just chatting long after the event they responded to was over. It became an extended lunch break for some of these guys, some kind of "the in crowd" social event. Once I was done or there was no more need for additional officers I'd depart and get onto the next radio call, as the public expected me to do. Meanwhile the other officers read that as "not a part of the group" and it created a rift.

    My point isn't to dwell on my story but illustrate that yes, you can be professional and just go do your job. It's in you but you have to make a choice as to whether you'll be that professional or not. Thanks to my upbringing I guess I had that kind of common sense and it's carried me onto bigger, better and more lucrative jobs. In short, I make more money now than I've ever made before and I owe it all to work ethic.

    Conversely I know a lot of those other guys some 15 years after that job and those officers are still bitching about how they're not getting what's owed to them, while goofing off and taking extended "report writing" breaks. I know one art school student who went to her part time job late every day. She was eventually fired. She told me "Well this isn't my real job, it's just what I'm doing for money until I get my REAL job" as a way to dismiss her regard for the retail position she had. I see where she's coming from but the problem was she graduated, got that artist job and then was fired for always being late to work.

    Your ethics are who you are, not who you think you will alter up/down based on how much you're paid.

    Also, if you think you're not making enough, get a better education and/or pursue better job opportunities. No one is stopping you.

    Get back to work.
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  11. #86

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by fifthrider View Post
    This is another thread with some driven opinions, ergo I'm hesitant to say anything into this powder keg but yes, I've seen CMs talking to each other to the point that guests were ignored. I don't think too many here take issue with CMs talking to each other and enjoying their job but when you forget your work ethic you tell everyone why you'll be working in customer service for a long time and griping about it all the way.

    When I worked in law enforcement we had frequent complaints read during briefing about officers who would stick around in a group just chatting long after the event they responded to was over. It became an extended lunch break for some of these guys, some kind of "the in crowd" social event. Once I was done or there was no more need for additional officers I'd depart and get onto the next radio call, as the public expected me to do. Meanwhile the other officers read that as "not a part of the group" and it created a rift.

    My point isn't to dwell on my story but illustrate that yes, you can be professional and just go do your job. It's in you but you have to make a choice as to whether you'll be that professional or not. Thanks to my upbringing I guess I had that kind of common sense and it's carried me onto bigger, better and more lucrative jobs. In short, I make more money now than I've ever made before and I owe it all to work ethic.

    Conversely I know a lot of those other guys some 15 years after that job and those officers are still bitching about how they're not getting what's owed to them, while goofing off and taking extended "report writing" breaks. I know one art school student who went to her part time job late every day. She was eventually fired. She told me "Well this isn't my real job, it's just what I'm doing for money until I get my REAL job" as a way to dismiss her regard for the retail position she had. I see where she's coming from but the problem was she graduated, got that artist job and then was fired for always being late to work.

    Your ethics are who you are, not who you think you will alter up/down based on how much you're paid.

    Also, if you think you're not making enough, get a better education and/or pursue better job opportunities. No one is stopping you.

    Get back to work.
    Very well said.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  12. #87

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald the Rabbitt View Post
    So everyone that is saying how CM are stealing by talking on stage and having a moment of levity in busy environment, are you completly innocent from this at your job?
    You have completly contorted other ppl's words.

    ---------- Post added 10-10-2012 at 12:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by fifthrider View Post
    I know one art school student who went to her part time job late every day. She was eventually fired. She told me "Well this isn't my real job, it's just what I'm doing for money until I get my REAL job" as a way to dismiss her regard for the retail position she had.

    Glad you posted this (above)...
    I had that mentality when I was younger. A manager set me straight and taught me the work ethic that public school and my parents could not.

    Disney needs to do this. It is sad that they need to do it, but they know how the world is in modern times. If the employee is lacking in skills/ethics/training and you've hired them, it is now time to teach a work ethic and ALL types of skills. I wont hold my breath on this one.
    ~Jay

    "Ahh-chooo!" ~ Walt Disney
    "Bless you." ~ My Grandfather
    (Disneyland, circa 1957)


  13. #88

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by fifthrider View Post
    This is another thread with some driven opinions, ergo I'm hesitant to say anything into this powder keg but yes, I've seen CMs talking to each other to the point that guests were ignored. I don't think too many here take issue with CMs talking to each other and enjoying their job but when you forget your work ethic you tell everyone why you'll be working in customer service for a long time and griping about it all the way.

    When I worked in law enforcement we had frequent complaints read during briefing about officers who would stick around in a group just chatting long after the event they responded to was over. It became an extended lunch break for some of these guys, some kind of "the in crowd" social event. Once I was done or there was no more need for additional officers I'd depart and get onto the next radio call, as the public expected me to do. Meanwhile the other officers read that as "not a part of the group" and it created a rift.

    My point isn't to dwell on my story but illustrate that yes, you can be professional and just go do your job. It's in you but you have to make a choice as to whether you'll be that professional or not. Thanks to my upbringing I guess I had that kind of common sense and it's carried me onto bigger, better and more lucrative jobs. In short, I make more money now than I've ever made before and I owe it all to work ethic.

    Conversely I know a lot of those other guys some 15 years after that job and those officers are still bitching about how they're not getting what's owed to them, while goofing off and taking extended "report writing" breaks. I know one art school student who went to her part time job late every day. She was eventually fired. She told me "Well this isn't my real job, it's just what I'm doing for money until I get my REAL job" as a way to dismiss her regard for the retail position she had. I see where she's coming from but the problem was she graduated, got that artist job and then was fired for always being late to work.

    Your ethics are who you are, not who you think you will alter up/down based on how much you're paid.

    Also, if you think you're not making enough, get a better education and/or pursue better job opportunities. No one is stopping you.

    Get back to work.
    Excellent post! There is a line there. I have not seen any CMs cross it in my experience with DLR, but I wont be foolish enough to (especially now-a-days) say it is never crossed.

  14. #89

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    I was a part of the Disney Cast for along time, I have found that, yes standers have gone down, Yet there are still many many CM that create magic for guests every day. It's a high turn over there, many cast I've meet along the way had never gone to the park, or its just another job. Lately I have seen a good deal of Cast that have gone above and beyond . I think it's good for Cm's get along, but they forget where they are more and more. Sometimes the job gets very mundane. I am glad to have seen more and more good ones since summer has ended.
    Little and broken, but still good.

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    Re: Standards for Employee discipline and performance at Disneyland gets lower and lo

    Quote Originally Posted by indianajack View Post
    I've never worked for Disney so I'm a little perplexed by something. The starting wages are said to be low and capped, but isn't there the opportunity for promotion to higher positions such as a "lead" or other supervisor/management style jobs that would lead to better wages? Usually that's the carrot that corporations use to motivate the new, low-waged employees to work hard with the hope of moving up the ladder. I don't think Disney would hire many "outsiders" into park management positions so I'm assuming most of them were internal promotions originating from bottom-of-the-ladder CMs. Shouldn't that be motivation to be ship-shape while on the job?
    Lead and Trainer rates when I left had just changed. The original rate for Lead was "top rate +$1" which was an incentive for younger CM's who hadn't made it to the top rate mark (usually you hit that ceiling within 5 years since the cap is about $10). Trainer if I remember correctly was "top rate + 50c", again an incentive for younger CM's to step up to the plate.

    During my time there that changed entirely. Disney backed out of the "top rate" part and instead the new contract was just an extra $1 or 50c. So someone now taking on the extra responsibility as a Lead made a whooping $40 in a 40hr shift... someone as a trainer made a whooping $20. Obviously that discouraged a lot of experienced individuals from even applying.

    Moving up is pure politics, as it is at any major corporation. People make trainer, people make Lead, but only a fraction make it above Lead to a salaried manager position. Salaried for the most part was brought in from outside the company. But my friends who are salaried complain just as loudly about the low pay. Many of the better managers have moved on to greener pastures.

    Last night a friend and I had an in depth conversation about the park, he's a current CM. He reminded me about another aspect of the 05 contract change I'd forgotten about.

    From when I started in 98, until 05, the scale was Full Time (A) Part Time (B) CR and CT. A and B had benefits, CR and CT did not. There was a "floating" status known as CR25, if you were a CR and could maintain 25 hours a week you were given benefits. A was granted 40 hours a week under contract plus benefits. B was granted either 30 or 35 hours a week under contract plus benefits (can't remember which honestly). The other ranks picked up what hours were left. It was usually possible to make B after a year, so most CM's could work their way into benefits and that was the main reason people stayed.

    After the 05 contract A and B were merged into 1 status, FT. FT is granted minimum 30 hours a week under contract plus benefits. PT became everyone else... no benefits. Individuals walking in the door could go 3-5 years without benefits. When they finally made FT they found the benefits had been significantly slashed compared to those who were grandfathered in... sick, vacation, medical, dental... all slashed.

    In 05 A LOT of new hires literally walked in the door and walked off within a couple months. Many citing long hours and lack of benefits as the reason why. Disney was still losing people due to the Presenteeism policy, and now lacked a means of replacing those individuals. This resulted in mandatory overtime which burned out the CM's... mandatory 6 day and in some cases 7 day weeks. I still have my stub from my 100hr work week posted in 2005.

    By 2008 the lack of staffing in some areas meant that if you had been at that location for 3 months you were a trainer, within 6 months you were a lead. Imagine how much experience someone has in leading others when they've only been on the job 6 months. This caused substantial problems, some of which are still seen today.

    Each contract negotiation (every 3 years) Disney eventually concedes to a pay raise. What they never touch is the top rate. That adjustment would encourage people to stay, and Disney doesn't seem to want that. As I said they charge Guests for a Cadillac but when you get in the staff is paid at the go cart wages.

    Again anyone wishing to refute this or compare notes I am more than happy to PM back and forth so as not to clog up this thread.
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